guns

[dilligaf]

I am a member of AA. We have many members who are at any given time on the "wrong side of the law". And while AA claims not to be a religious sect (because it truly isn't) I see my part in it as very much first century Christianity. Yep. I "hang" with the prostitutes and tax collectors, the murderers and the rapists. But what can I say? They saved my life.

Thank you for clearing that up. It makes a lot more sense and at least I can believe that you don't actually condone breaking and entering.

I am not sure, though, how you came to the conclusion that people think guns somehow make evil people less evil or desparate people less desparate.

Guns don't make evil people less evil. People, by and in and of their own actions, make themselves more or less evil. Guns can make evil people more evil but it is the action of the person that does that, not the gun by itself. The gun is the tool, it is the person using the tool that causes the action. Guns are inanimate objects that have no action in and of themselves. It takes a person wielding that gun to 'cause' an action.

 

[cachsux]

Guns don't make evil people less evil.

I have to disagree with you on this part. A gun will change an evil person into a dead evil person which by their inability to carry out any further evil makes them less evil. I'll never shoot an intruder to see if a bullet works as a method of rehabilitation.

 

[dilligaf]

I have to disagree with you on this part. A gun will change an evil person into a dead evil person which by their inability to carry out any further evil makes them less evil. I'll never shoot an intruder to see if a bullet works as a method of rehabilitation.

I stand corrected. You do have a valid point there.

 

[bbsam]

Thank you for clearing that up. It makes a lot more sense and at least I can believe that you don't actually condone breaking and entering.

I am not sure, though, how you came to the conclusion that people think guns somehow make evil people less evil or desparate people less desparate.

Guns don't make evil people less evil. People, by and in and of their own actions, make themselves more or less evil. Guns can make evil people more evil but it is the action of the person that does that, not the gun by itself. The gun is the tool, it is the person using the tool that causes the action. Guns are inanimate objects that have no action in and of themselves. It takes a person wielding that gun to 'cause' an action.

No. I absolutely do not condone breaking and entering.

What I am wondering is the deterence factor. Not so much the criminal with the weapon, but the homeowner with the weapon. If you own a Glock as a deterent it seems that you believe a criminal is rational and will view the deterent as such. Or to state another way, you owning a glock will convince an evil/desparate person to behave in a rational and self preserving manner. Actually it makes perfect sense to believe such a thing if the assumption is that the criminal is a rational being. In the case of alcoholics and drug addicts I don't see that as the case.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that they are not responsible for their actions, anything but. What I am saying is that the actual deterent effect is in my opinion way, way, overblown. But, if it makes people feel safer, I have no problem with people owning guns. I'm sure the grandmother posted earlier with a right to carry permit and several handguns in her car truly meant it when she replied, "Not a fu***ng thing" when asked what she was afraid of. I also believe that had she been carjacked, she easily could have been pistol-whipped into a coma before she could have gotten the safety off. But I suppose if she felt safe, that's something.

 

[dilligaf]

No. I absolutely do not condone breaking and entering.

What I am wondering is the deterence factor. Not so much the criminal with the weapon, but the homeowner with the weapon. If you own a Glock as a deterent it seems that you believe a criminal is rational and will view the deterent as such. Or to state another way, you owning a glock will convince an evil/desparate person to behave in a rational and self preserving manner. Actually it makes perfect sense to believe such a thing if the assumption is that the criminal is a rational being. In the case of alcoholics and drug addicts I don't see that as the case.OK I'm with you. I follow what you are saying. Your point can go 2 directions. Yes, if I own a gun (which I do and my favorite is my Colt 45) I have a small degree of expectation that a criminal may (MAY) be deterred by that. Not all criminals have a death wish. I would say that quite a few of them are in it for the easy money and if/when confronted would prefer to be elsewhere. This is what I am betting on. On the off hand chance that the one criminal that breaks into my house has a death wish and is willing to push the envelope, not having a gun is going to probably get me killed. Having a gun will, at least, give me a chance to protect myself. It levels the playing field. Every human being has a built in, innate sense of self preservation. It's in the DNA. It's a basic instinct in every animal (including man). It's the fight or flight instinct.

Now, don't get me wrong. I am not saying that they are not responsible for their actions, anything but. What I am saying is that the actual deterent effect is in my opinion way, way, overblown. But, if it makes people feel safer, I have no problem with people owning guns. I'm sure the grandmother posted earlier with a right to carry permit and several handguns in her car truly meant it when she replied, "Not a fu***ng thing" when asked what she was afraid of. I also believe that had she been carjacked, she easily could have been pistol-whipped into a coma before she could have gotten the safety off. But I suppose if she felt safe, that's something.

I disagree that this is way overblown. I think it's a crap shoot, but not overblown. It's like gambling in Vegas. Sometimes the odds are in your favor and sometimes they're not. It's all in how you handle the situation. Plan ahead and be prepared. Expect the unexpected. My having a gun does not necessarily make me 'feel' safer (not that I don't feel safe where I am) but it does give me an advantage that another person may not have. I can take it a step further to protect myself and I am more than willing to do that if I need too.

 

[bbsam]

Well said dill. I would only say that the self preservation instinct in many is overpowered by a ridiculous ego of invincibility.

 

[moreluck]

Well said dill. I would only say that the self preservation instinct in many is overpowered by a ridiculous ego of invincibility.

The last 4 words describe 'youth' !!

 

[dilligaf]

Well said dill. I would only say that the self preservation instinct in many is overpowered by a ridiculous ego of invincibility.

Yes, I agree. Or dulled by drugs.

 

[bbsam]

The last 4 words describe 'youth' !!

Yes! And Bill Wilson famously described alcoholics as "childish and immature".

 

[moreluck]

Like I told my daughter when she used to get all dramatic on me......."Get over it!" She swears she covers that in every meeting she attends.

 

[bbsam]

Right. I like "Get over yourself already!" It's more to the poin of "one is responsible for who and what one is".

 

[island1fox]

Washington State Homeowner Shoots night intruder.

Another case of a criminal that would have much preferred an unarmed victim.

 

[804brown]

Chicago Mayor Wants Gun Registration Throughout Illinois CBS St. Louis

 

[moreluck]

Chicago Mayor Wants Gun Registration Throughout Illinois � CBS St. Louis

Rahm calls it "common sense legislation" !!!

My common sense says the bad guys won't bother to register anything!!!

 

[Babagounj]

Chicago Mayor Wants Gun Registration Throughout Illinois � CBS St. Louis

Oh, such lies they tell.
It reminds me of a scene from the movie RED DAWN , where Colonel Bella (a Cuban officer) instructs the KGB to go to the local sporting goods store and obtain the records of the store's gun sales on the ATF's Form 4473, which includes the names of citizens who have purchased firearms.

 

[804brown]

Oh, such lies they tell.
It reminds me of a scene from the movie RED DAWN , where Colonel Bella (a Cuban officer) instructs the KGB to go to the local sporting goods store and obtain the records of the store's gun sales on the ATF's Form 4473, which includes the names of citizens who have purchased firearms.

"Red dawn"?? LOL Great source!!

 

[cachsux]

Rahm calls it "common sense legislation" !!!

My common sense says the bad guys won't bother to register anything!!!

I love the city of Chicago but it's politicians can go friend themselves. They think they own the state.

 

[over9five]

I love the city of Chicago but it's politicians can go friend themselves. They think they own the state.

They do. Rahm Emanuel was clearly ineligible to run for that office, and yet somehow there he is!
Sorry to any Chicago voters on here, but I think y'all are stupid.

 

[cachsux]

They do. Rahm Emanuel was clearly ineligible to run for that office, and yet somehow there he is!
Sorry to any Chicago voters on here, but I think y'all are stupid.

Most don't have a choice. Like one of Kleins polls it's 1 or 2.

 

[moreluck]

February 13, 2012 @ 2:55 pm | Obama Judicial Appointee Says Americans Have The Right To Keep Arms, But Not To Bear Them…