Since the U.S. Dollar is the world's reserve currency if things get that bad you can expect most other currencies to tank also. And a balanced budget is good for everyone, not just me. What you can't deny is that the U.S. is an expensive country to live in. And don't forget our history. Most Europeans and many others who immigrated here were looking for something better. Stands to reason if another country works better for an American they have every right to move there as long as that country accepts them. Why is this so difficult to grasp?
Happy Vacation
- Thread starter Sniper
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True, but if capitalism is truly flourishing then there will be good opportunities to better oneself. And thus some will do better than others. A society where everyone is totally equal in income doesn't work. We just have to convince the powers that be to pay enough to those willing to work hard to give them a decent life. If people don't want to work hard, or at all, they shouldn't share in the benefits. What we have going on now is demanding hard work with very little reward. Leads to anger and civil unrest at some point.
I do not in any way shape or form find it difficult to grasp. You do not need to justify to me or anyone why you have chosen to leave. Likewise you do not need to give me any more lectures on the basics of socialism. All I am saying is simply, GO and stop worrying about the federal budget. But just remember one thing. If you are not here to become part of the solution then you become part of the problem.
fatboy33
Well-Known Member
I only agree with you in that if people don't want to work they shouldn't get benefits. I don't like that capitalism resembles too much a pyramid scheme. The people at the top only get richer while the bottom work their asses off just to climb one, maybe two levels, before they die. I believe super rich should be taxed at a higher rate than a person working in Walmart. We've seen the rich, for so long now, not reinvest that money into Americans. They only keep it for themselves. You're probably going to say, but if you work hard you to can be a billionaire....... That's not reality. It's true, becoming a billionaire or even a millionaire in America, the odds are better than hitting the lotto. But for every new millionaire made, I'll point to a million people having to shop at walmart just to put food on the table, clothed their kids and hope their 15 year old car makes it another year. You guys with the point of view that the poor are the reason we have a huge deficit are wrong. The rich are the reason. The politicians whom passed bills to cut tax on the rich are the problem. Kansas cut taxes on the rich. Now they're broke. California raised taxes on the rich. Now, not only do they have a balanced budget, they have a surplus. Bill Maher's last show just pointed out this very issue. We must stop worshiping the rich but do what's best for the middle and low class. We've seen seen where the last 15 years of loving the rich have gotten this country.
How can I be part of the problem if I'm not here? You were saying Social Security is socialism. No it isn't, sorry.
You are right. 94% of the Bush tax cuts went to the wealthiest 3% of the population. It is one of the reasons why the idea of repatriation of off shore money back to the U.S. at a discounted tax rate never went very far is the fact that very little of it would get back into the economy. A recent Time magazine article pointed to the fact that of all new money raised by Wall Street investment bankers only about 15% actually gets into the U.S. economy. Clearly the nation's love affair with the 1% is not only over but they are becoming a target of the American people's contempt.
You will be drawing benefits from U.S. sources but probably will not be paying anything back into the till and I'bet that you will not renounce your American citizenship. A real stand up guy would do that as a sign of their commitment to their new homeland . Only a real POS would not . You know just to be on the safe side.
Why would I renounce my citizenship? And I'm entitled to my SS no matter where I live. Are you aware that for generations foreign nationals have worked in the U.S. on green cards and often go back to their home countries with a monthly SS check? Are you aware for generations now American retirees have received SS while living overseas in many countries? You act like I am doing something unusual when this option has been around for as long as SS has. I'll owe U.S. income taxes no matter where I live as the U.S. is one of two countries that taxes their citizens' income even if they live outside their country's borders. Mostly millionaires renounce their citizenship, and usually over taxes. And as usual the liberal name calling is starting.
What you are missing is you've never received a paying job from a poor man. And I'm not going to say any such thing about becoming a billionaire. But 88% of millionaires in the U.S. didn't inherit money. They started a business and did something well over and over, providing goods and services that people want. I'm all for the average person having a decent life but in every country where they've striven to provide a worker's paradise everything fell apart. The truth is that we have a system where if you work really hard to get yourself educated or trained in a lucrative field, you can have a very comfortable life, assuming that you continue to work hard and make yourself valuable to either a corporate entity or the paying public. But providing everyone some semblance of wealth without a corresponding output will break the bank. Capitalism is exploitive, but the profit motive drives achievement, and fills our stores with goods and food, and provides opportunities for those willing to grab them. It's by no means perfect, and unfortunately it kisses the backsides of those with money. But if you tax the rich to give to the poor, soon you'll have no rich, as they'll either leave or go broke. We aren't owed a great living, that we must achieve ourselves. But we should get a decent living for helping them get wealthier.
It will be fine
Well-Known Member
That is not true according to history.
fatboy33
Well-Known Member
And a rich man has never received his wealth without a poor man. Your last sentences sums up what the working class all over the world is saying. We see the heads of million dollars companies paying themselves more money than 3 lifetimes. They should either pay the people who helped get them to their wealth or tax them for the sake of the country. Trust me, you don't have to worry them going broke.
As the economic disparity between the 1% and the rest continues to grow wider the social tensions will become elevated. This next decade could be as volatile as the 1960's . If Obama could run for a third term he would stand a good chance of winning because the American people would know what they've got. A mediocre president but still a better political product than what the two major parties are presently offering.
Haven't the rich gotten richer under Obama?
No denying that. But if the rich don't invest their money in new ideas and businesses then where are the jobs going to come from? I've said all along we must convince the wealthy to pay better. How is that done? Armed rebellion? When countries divested out of South African stocks apartheid ended. Want to bring the rich in this country to their knees? Divest out of your 401k's. It's the only way to get them to listen and if you aren't willing to do that don't complain. The "1%" aren't getting super rich off of their salaries. It's the stock options and the 401k system. Literally our money is making them so wealthy and we're doing it to ourselves. People that say tax, tax, tax don't realized that the top 10% of earners pay more than 50% of income taxes. So keep jacking up rates, see where that gets you.
fatboy33
Well-Known Member
By Tax, if they choose not to compensate the middle class. During the depression, they were taxed over 90 percent but remained wealthy; Getty, Kennedy, Rockerfeller, Vanderbilt and many more are still. And you're mistaken if you believe they're paying 50pct. There's a saying amongst them. "If you're paying 50 percent in tax, Fire you accountant.".
No, collectively the top 10% are paying over 50% of income taxes collected. And your 90% is inaccurate too. The top tax rate was 90%, but that kicked in at a very high level of income. They didn't pay 90% on all of their income.
Keep something in mind. Big money isn't going to build capital intensive high head count manufacturing, the money isn't there. The money is in stock, currency and real estate speculation. They will invest money in the development of new products and processes but once it's ready for production it goes off shore to be manufactured under license and under horrible working conditions then it comes back to the states with the expectation that the worker class and the underclass buy it. Even the Amish are off shoring the quilts and other stuff they call genuine Amish goods.
Except of course for those shiny new factories in right-to-work states. Another point: the rich man may need the poor man to do the work, but if you tax the rich too much they'll sit on the sidelines and wait for better days. Why risk their wealth if you leave them too little profit? Meanwhile the poor man still needs a job.
Once upon a time your way of thinking was in the majority not now. Again 94% of the Bush tax cut went to the wealthiest 3% of the population. And look what happened . seven years later the American taxpayer had to go in and bail the banks out of the worst banking crises since the Great Depression thanks to the unbridled greed unleashed by the repeal of Glass Steagall.
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