Have you heard of the Orion System, what do you know?

[pretzel_man]

You are taking my quote out of context. Please reread the entire post.

I was quoting and responding to a driver who is being told by ORION to deliver both sides of a highway, make multiple left turns against traffic, wait at lights etc. in order to "save miles."

Only an idiot would expect a driver to do this in order to generate a compliance metric, and only an idiot would implement such a system without creating a mechanism for addressing and correcting such obvious flaws.

this is your entire post:

"And we are actually paying a salary to the idiots who created this system? We need to keep that fact in mind this summer when contract talks get really intense and the company starts whining about its "union cost disadvantage" vs. the competition. Get real, how much $$ are we wasting on garbage like this? "

I will certainly accept your clarification.....

 

[pretzel_man]

To your points below:

They have done this before. There is a planned time per driver to do the implementation based on what has been seen before. It includes doing two rides per driver.

Yes, there are expectations. Again, based on previous results. If your center team is poor, the work will degrade. No doubt.

To you point on delivering, maps are based on the real world. Google, Bing, Garmin, Tom Tom, MapQuest, all do work based on maps. Fire departments and emergency vehicles also use maps. No maps are perfect, but they do represent the real world.

For your last point..... That one is the most important and most valid. If PAS / EDD are wrong, ORION will be more wrong. Guraranteed. I've seen centers who struggle because of this. If there is no plan to fix this, then it will fail. For sure.

One last item. They will ride with you at least two times. It is to show that ORION works. Yes, it also sets expectations. If you cannot follow ORION during those rides, you will never be able to follow it on your own. But, if you can follow ORION during those rides, the expectations on the proper miles has been properly set. That would show that the data is good.

They are supposed to take your input from the rides and make fixes. We will see how it works.

I plan on taking your advice, although I can already tell you that I will have to fight with my management team in order to do it.

I spent some time yesterday talking to the ORION project manager in my building. He's a sharp guy with decades of UPS experience. In my opinion, he could make ORION succeed IF...

(a) He is given adequate time and resources to do it properly (doubtful)

(b) The center team is empowered and given the resources to make updates and correct flaws once the ORION team is gone (doubtful)

(c) The expectations placed upon the center team regarding ORION compliance are realistic (doubtful).


The two major flaws I see with ORION are

(1) It is predicated upon the assumption that the fastest and most efficient way to run a delivery/pickup route is to simply "connect the dots" using the shortest travel path between consecutive points. This assumption is valid if you are in an arcade playing Pac Man, but it is NOT valid when you are driving a package car in the real world.

(2) In my center at least, the ORION program is being installed over the top of a PAS/EDD system that is deeply and fundamentally flawed. Our center was relooped for PAS in 2004. The relooping was an utter failure. This failure was compounded a year later when IE forced an unwanted and unneeded satellite center down our throat, the logistics of which made the bad loops in he affected areas even worse. Then, in 2010, our building consolidated from 3 centers down to 2, which eliminated the arbitrary loop boundaries that PAS/EDD was originally based upon. The result...is a PAS/EDD system which is basically one big chaotic pile of patches, work-arounds and Band-Aids. Basing an ORION system upon all this is akin to hanging new siding and windows and gutters on a house with a crooked and rotten foundation. It will look pretty from the outside but none of the floors will be level.

 

[cosmo1]

.....Yes, there are expectations. Again, based on previous results. If your center team is poor, the work will degrade. No doubt.....


.....For your last point..... That one is the most important and most valid. If PAS / EDD are wrong, ORION will be more wrong. Guraranteed. I've seen centers who struggle because of this. If there is no plan to fix this, then it will fail. For sure.....

So, if our dispatch supervisors are too lazy to fix plans, we're screwed?

Example; "That section of residentials on the other side of town is now on you permanently because I can't think of anybody else to give it to."

 

[soberups]

For your last point..... That one is the most important and most valid. If PAS / EDD are wrong, ORION will be more wrong. Guraranteed. I've seen centers who struggle because of this. If there is no plan to fix this, then it will fail. For sure.

I asked the ORION project manager about this very point. He told me that they have no intention of relooping the center because they do not have the resources or time to do so.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Believe it or not, I still intend to maintain an open mind, and see if the system will work. Will it wind up being an improvement? Probably. Will it live up to the expectations placed upon it by corporate? Doubtful. Am I going to wind up generating the demanded 85% compliance rate on my 140 mile, 3 loop route with its PAS/EDD that might as well have been drawn by a blind monkey with a crayon? I'm guessing not.

 

[pretzel_man]

I asked the ORION project manager about this very point. He told me that they have no intention of relooping the center because they do not have the resources or time to do so.

Garbage in, garbage out.

Believe it or not, I still intend to maintain an open mind, and see if the system will work. Will it wind up being an improvement? Probably. Will it live up to the expectations placed upon it by corporate? Doubtful. Am I going to wind up generating the demanded 85% compliance rate on my 140 mile, 3 loop route with its PAS/EDD that might as well have been drawn by a blind monkey with a crayon? I'm guessing not.

Sober,

There is a difference between relooping and retracing.

The key is that ORION will try to deliver your route in the manner that its traced. If you don't deliver in this order at all, (you reload your car), then things won't work.

They are supposed to fix bad traces. The district is supposed to do so with the team.

As I said before. You will get at least two rides. That is the time that the rubber meets the road.

 

[soberups]

P-Man, heres another question.

On my route there is a newer residential subdivision that was a wheat field when I bid the area 17 yrs ago. It has one entrance/exit, and is a series of looping streets that surround a golf course. Its a perfect "test case" for the ORION system.

I wrote the trace for this area myself once the city had finished platting the streets, and when PAS/EDD was implemented they simply cut-and-pasted my trace for this subdivision into the trace for the entire loop. When I wrote this trace I had two goals; to minimize mileage of course, but also...and more importantly...to eliminate the need to ever back into a driveway. If my trace is followed 100%, a driver could theoretically deliver 250 stops in there without backing up once. This involves using the avalable cul-de-sacs and/or driving around the block, which can add distance of course, but not enough to justify risking a back.

I asked the ORION manager about this and he said that the system will still try to cut miles by having you deliver to the next closest house...even if it requires backing, or has you deliver an excessive number of stops on the driver side of the street vs the passenger side (which of course means walking across the street to make the delivery.) He said that in a situation such as this, we should use common sense and avoid backing even if it will cause ORION compliance to suffer.

I was encouraged by his reply, but my concern is this; once he is gone, and my management team is getting hammered by corporate to generate the 85% metric (which you know they will) isnt this system going to encourage unsafe behavior and additional backing by drivers who are trying to be in compliance?

When I deliver in this neighborhood, I use PAS/EDD along with my area knowledge to create a mental "trace" for myself that both eliminates any need to back and maximizes the number of stops I will be delivering on the passenger side of the street. I'm going to continue doing this, regardless of what ORION says and regardless of whether or not it causes me to drive an extra 523 feet on a 140 mile route. This is the safe and productive and proper thing to do, yet my "compliance" will suffer as a result. Where is the wisdom in designing a system that encourages unsafe behavior and, in effect, punishes those who make smart decisions?

 

[pretzel_man]

I asked this question before and his answer is the same I heard. Use common sense.

One more thing.....

ORION doesn't know about backing. It doesn't try to cause them nor try to eliminate them.

The methods do NOT say you cannot cross the street in a residential area. ORION may have you doing so, but....

You can use the cul de sac and deliver on the way back.

3,000 drivers are using ORION today.... This is not an untested system. The results are impressive.

P-Man, heres another question.

On my route there is a newer residential subdivision that was a wheat field when I bid the area 17 yrs ago. It has one entrance/exit, and is a series of looping streets that surround a golf course. Its a perfect "test case" for the ORION system.

I wrote the trace for this area myself once the city had finished platting the streets, and when PAS/EDD was implemented they simply cut-and-pasted my trace for this subdivision into the trace for the entire loop. When I wrote this trace I had two goals; to minimize mileage of course, but also...and more importantly...to eliminate the need to ever back into a driveway. If my trace is followed 100%, a driver could theoretically deliver 250 stops in there without backing up once. This involves using the avalable cul-de-sacs and/or driving around the block, which can add distance of course, but not enough to justify risking a back.

I asked the ORION manager about this and he said that the system will still try to cut miles by having you deliver to the next closest house...even if it requires backing, or has you deliver an excessive number of stops on the driver side of the street vs the passenger side (which of course means walking across the street to make the delivery.) He said that in a situation such as this, we should use common sense and avoid backing even if it will cause ORION compliance to suffer.

I was encouraged by his reply, but my concern is this; once he is gone, and my management team is getting hammered by corporate to generate the 85% metric (which you know they will) isnt this system going to encourage unsafe behavior and additional backing by drivers who are trying to be in compliance?

When I deliver in this neighborhood, I use PAS/EDD along with my area knowledge to create a mental "trace" for myself that both eliminates any need to back and maximizes the number of stops I will be delivering on the passenger side of the street. I'm going to continue doing this, regardless of what ORION says and regardless of whether or not it causes me to drive an extra 523 feet on a 140 mile route. This is the safe and productive and proper thing to do, yet my "compliance" will suffer as a result. Where is the wisdom in designing a system that encourages unsafe behavior and, in effect, punishes those who make smart decisions?

 

[QKRSTKR]

Sober,

There is a difference between relooping and retracing.

The key is that ORION will try to deliver your route in the manner that its traced. If you don't deliver in this order at all, (you reload your car), then things won't work.

They are supposed to fix bad traces. The district is supposed ​to mess it up more you mean. to do so with the team.

As I said before. You will get at least two rides. That is the time that the rubber meets the road.

Bull crap! They ride once and that's it. They work on areas for more than a day, but only were on the rtes with the drivers once. So a little mis information right there.

They also re-traced all the rtes before doing Orion. So the way you had edd set up was completely wiped out. My edd was awesome. When they started on my loop they re-traced the whole rte. after they did that it was like I never even ran it before. Most of the streets on the route i ran my residential area are straight back and forth. 9 blocks. One street in particular had me going on it 7 different times if I had all the blocks, which during peak I did. Now with Orion it has cleaned it up some. But not like it was. Before they re-traced it I was never on the same street more than twice. Once for the high blocks, later in the day the low blocks. It was simple. Now I believe if they would have left the trace alone on that route Orion would have had the chance to be awesome.

I don't know the exact name for this program they used to re-trace all the routes, but a route trace "enhancer" was what it was dubbed. Of course forced down our throats by district. I was told our center was the first to use this route "enhancer". Unlucky I guess.

 

[QKRSTKR]

Also pretzel, 3000 of us have lived it or our still living it as you say. Unless your actually in a center and are watching what really goes on you really don't know. No offense meant its just the truth. The memos or kool-aid they pass out arent squat to the real thing. The "you get at least 2 rides" is not right. It's more like a bad one night stand with lasting affects. There are some guys that beat the Orion miles by over 20. Why? Cause they know what they are doing . Again, drivers come in under by as many as 20 miles on country routes with Orion. How can a good system be off by that much?

 

[soberups]

Also pretzel, 3000 of us have lived it or our still living it as you say. Unless your actually in a center and are watching what really goes on you really don't know. No offense meant its just the truth. The memos or kool-aid they pass out arent squat to the real thing. The "you get at least 2 rides" is not right. It's more like a bad one night stand with lasting affects. There are some guys that beat the Orion miles by over 20. Why? Cause they know what they are doing . Again, drivers come in under by as many as 20 miles on country routes with Orion. How can a good system be off by that much?

Question;

Are these drivers harassed for failing to meet the 85% compliance rate?

 

[soberups]

Bull crap! They ride once and that's it. They work on areas for more than a day, but only were on the rtes with the drivers once. So a little mis information right there.

I am the last car in the highest numbered loop in the building. If you look at our dispatch sheet, my name is at the very bottom.

My suspicion...is that by the time the ORION team gets around to doing my route, they will be over budget and out of time and manpower. They will be in a hurry to get the project "wrapped up" in time to meet the scheduled implementation date (kind of like preload on a bad day) so I will get a half-assed rush job on mine. I hope that I am wrong about that, but after 26 years of personally experiencing the company's implementation of new technology, I believe that my skepticism is warranted.

 

[menotyou]

I asked this question before and his answer is the same I heard. Use common sense.

One more thing.....

ORION doesn't know about backing. It doesn't try to cause them nor try to eliminate them.

The methods do NOT say you cannot cross the street in a residential area. ORION may have you doing so, but....

You can use the cul de sac and deliver on the way back.

3,000 drivers are using ORION today.... This is not an untested system. The results are impressive.

I remember when UPS was famous for not crossing the road, as its safer than doing so, and no right turns, if possible. Times have changed and my gut says its cuz of stock price. Plain and simple.

 

[soberups]

I asked this question before and his answer is the same I heard. Use common sense.

One more thing.....

ORION doesn't know about backing. It doesn't try to cause them nor try to eliminate them.

The methods do NOT say you cannot cross the street in a residential area. ORION may have you doing so, but....

You can use the cul de sac and deliver on the way back.

3,000 drivers are using ORION today.... This is not an untested system. The results are impressive.

Pman,

You guys have created a situation where anything the driver does to keep from appearing on one report will simply cause him to show up on a different one.

If he uses his area knowledge and "common sense" and ignores ORION in a tight residential area in order to avoid backing....he will get hammered for failing to be 85% compliant.

If he shuts his brain off and follows ORION...he will get hammered for an excessive number of backs on Telematics.

I am glad that you say to use common sense, and I am glad that the ORION project manager I spoke with also said to use common sense. But you arent here, and the ORION manager wont be here either once his job is done and he has moved on to a different location. I, on the other hand, will still be here, and you know (or should know) as well as I do that UPS in its infinite wisdom is going to mindlessly and obsessively chase that 85% number just as it has chased metrics for every new technology that it has ever implemented.

ORION is a big change. It will change things for drivers, it will change things for customers, it will change things for operations management. Will there also be a change in UPS's corporate culture regarding its relentless, obsessive demands for mindless compliance with these metrics?

 

[pretzel_man]

Sober,

Yes, you will be on one report or another. Life is full of tradeoffs and the reports just demonstrate that.

When there is no hard and fast rule, you will be on one report or another. So be it. I don't think its unfair for management to ask about the tradeoffs you made.

Not all residential backs are improper.
It's not always wrong to break trace.
Use your judgement.

The report just shows that. A proper conversation can allow your management (or you) to learn.

ORION will quantify some of those tradeoffs. (if properly implemented).

It will say how many miles a route "should" be. The decisions made can be quantified. Nothing wrong with that.

Pman,

You guys have created a situation where anything the driver does to keep from appearing on one report will simply cause him to show up on a different one.

If he uses his area knowledge and "common sense" and ignores ORION in a tight residential area in order to avoid backing....he will get hammered for failing to be 85% compliant.

If he shuts his brain off and follows ORION...he will get hammered for an excessive number of backs on Telematics.

I am glad that you say to use common sense, and I am glad that the ORION project manager I spoke with also said to use common sense. But you arent here, and the ORION manager wont be here either once his job is done and he has moved on to a different location. I, on the other hand, will still be here, and you know (or should know) as well as I do that UPS in its infinite wisdom is going to mindlessly and obsessively chase that 85% number just as it has chased metrics for every new technology that it has ever implemented.

ORION is a big change. It will change things for drivers, it will change things for customers, it will change things for operations management. Will there also be a change in UPS's corporate culture regarding its relentless, obsessive demands for mindless compliance with these metrics?

 

[QKRSTKR]

Question;

Are these drivers harassed for failing to meet the 85% compliance rate?

Of course not. If your beating it by that much, they don't care. It's dont come in 10 miles over that they care about. My old route the real only miles saved are to/from. Use to take bypass around it was 13 miles 20 minutes. Now it's thru town, 6.5 miles and takes anywhere from 20-25 minutes. Go figure. So there saving 12 miles right there. On area miles are about the same.

 

[GoForBroke]

ROFLMAO obviously a person who has never been a driver or managed a real UPS operational center.[/LEFT]

I have been a driver and an on car sup for many years. Pm meets should be the exception and not the rule. The program works and has proven results in almost 50 centers across the country.

 

[oldngray]

anyone else think ORION maybe should have been called URANUS?

 

[GoForBroke]

When does ORION "optimize" your route? Does it do it based on forecasted stops prior to preload or does it happen after preload is complete?

If it does this at night based on forecast prior to loading any packages why not have it assign the HIN numbers in the new order based on the optimized route plan for that day. That would solve the whole having to deliver off shelf 7 during the first hour of the day problem.

ORION optimizes constantly durning the preload sort. it is based what is actually spad to the route, not forecasted data. The problem with loading the car in Orion order, is that some buildings run day sorts and start spaing stops for tomorrow today. Also the Orion solution can change with every new package spad. So the loader would have to constantly reorganize the load.

 

[soberups]

When does ORION "optimize" your route? Does it do it based on forecasted stops prior to preload or does it happen after preload is complete?

If it does this at night based on forecast prior to loading any packages why not have it assign the HIN numbers in the new order based on the optimized route plan for that day. That would solve the whole having to deliver off shelf 7 during the first hour of the day problem.

ORION optimizes constantly durning the preload sort. it is based what is actually spad to the route, not forecasted data. The problem with loading the car in Orion order, is that some buildings run day sorts and start spaing stops for tomorrow today. Also the Orion solution can change with every new package spad. So the loader would have to constantly reorganize the load.

So how much additional time will we be "allowed" for package selection now that we are no longer going to be using the 30-60" shelf selection method and will instead be expected to go into a blown out car and search for whatever stop ORION tells us to do next?

 

[oldngray]

You have a half empty car with all single package residential stops loaded in perfect order of course. And all routes will be dispatched that way now.