Have you heard of the Orion System, what do you know?

[pretzel_man]

Just out of curiosity, how many "plans" did you look at? I get so many different areas from one day to the next, that you could be anywhere in my load (assuming the DPS didn't thoroughly mix things up).

Cosmo:

I didn't check any plans. I just walked up to a package that got delivered to my house this week. It had HIN 7300.

I know that the HIN can change for each plan. This particular HIN was convenient for the point I was making.

 

[Ms.PacMan]

So, did we just come full circle???

First it was said that ORION won't work because it's not logical or possible to do what it says.

Then, when I point out what ORION does, it is said that of course, dirvers already do that. So, then ORION is not needed.

Let me point out.... Over 3,000 drivers are using ORION today. As a group, they have significantly reduced miles and cost (based on the latest information I saw).

I guess not all drivers are as good as those on this board.....

No, we are not full circle - you're the only one, along with your whole dept., that's driving us in circles.

The drivers here are talking about delivering the old way, using our brains. You are talking about a multi million dollar system, ORION, which has saved miles because another multi million dollar system (that can't be properly implemented or dispatched), EDD, ran up those miles.

It's as if UPS now has Munchausen syndrome where they create problems, when none existed, only to fix the problems.

 

[cosmo1]

Cosmo:

I didn't check any plans. I just walked up to a package that got delivered to my house this week. It had HIN 7300.

I know that the HIN can change for each plan. This particular HIN was convenient for the point I was making.

I have been informally talking with the ORION team that is now in our center setting implementing the system. I've asked a lot of questions asked in this thread: finding pkgs buried in the load, jumping from shelf to shelf and ad nauseum.

The most honest answer I've gotten is that the system will work as long as everything else works. The plan has to be good, the dispatch has to be good and the load has to be good. Otherwise, all bets are off.

 

[pretzel_man]

No, we are not full circle - you're the only one, along with your whole dept., that's driving us in circles.

The drivers here are talking about delivering the old way, using our brains. You are talking about a multi million dollar system, ORION, which has saved miles because another multi million dollar system (that can't be properly implemented or dispatched), EDD, ran up those miles.

It's as if UPS now has Munchausen syndrome where they create problems, when none existed, only to fix the problems.

While it may be true that I'm driving you in circles, your second statment is incorrect.

If you check the stops per mile before and after PAS / EDD, they are improved. Not as much as it should have been. Not as much as advertised.

But definitely improved.

Maybe in your route, or in your center, its not true. But for UPS as a whole, it is.

Like it or not, those facts are true.

 

[pretzel_man]

I have been informally talking with the ORION team that is now in our center setting implementing the system. I've asked a lot of questions asked in this thread: finding pkgs buried in the load, jumping from shelf to shelf and ad nauseum.

The most honest answer I've gotten is that the system will work as long as everything else works. The plan has to be good, the dispatch has to be good and the load has to be good. Otherwise, all bets are off.

What they are saying is mostly true.

If the system thinks you have different packages than you do, it won't work properly. They should be monitoring the preload.

If the trace is totally screwed up, it won't work properly. This gets to you other statement.

If ORION has you bouncing aound the shelves all day, then something is wrong with the trace. It knows what the trace is and tries to follow it. If you can't follow the trace at all, ORION can't either. It improves on a decent trace. It cannot fix a bad trace.

Good luck.

 

[bumped]

While it may be true that I'm driving you in circles, your second statment is incorrect.

If you check the stops per mile before and after PAS / EDD, they are improved. Not as much as it should have been. Not as much as advertised.

But definitely improved.

Maybe in your route, or in your center, its not true. But for UPS as a whole, it is.

Like it or not, those facts are true.

I don't doubt we are working faster and with less miles post PAS/EDD. Now, that savings comes from the drivers knowing what stops are in their car and how many pieces each stop has. With that time savings is where some routes get broken.

I remember when PAS/EDD was implemented. We were told even a monkey could load. Let me tell you, bring on that monkey because my loader is terrible. Its not in stop for stop order like it was advertised.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

How would Orion work with those pre-PAS/EDD preloaders who like to build custom loads for their drivers?

 

[serenity now]

What they are saying is mostly true.

If the system thinks you have different packages than you do, it won't work properly. They should be monitoring the preload.

If the trace is totally screwed up, it won't work properly. This gets to you other statement.

If ORION has you bouncing aound the shelves all day, then something is wrong with the trace. It knows what the trace is and tries to follow it. If you can't follow the trace at all, ORION can't either. It improves on a decent trace. It cannot fix a bad trace.

Good luck.

we have the same addresses that flip every day; never gets fixed
mis-slaps and outright misloads
add/cuts that don't get moved

so let's integrate another level of complexity right on top of the current mess; it will work out fine

 

[Ms.PacMan]

If you check the stops per mile before and after PAS / EDD, they are improved. Not as much as it should have been. Not as much as advertised.
Like it or not, those facts are true.

I suspect the only reason miles "improved" after PAS/EDD were because of all the route cutbacks. What little UPS saved in miles they have paid for in OT.

I'll tell you that the fastest I ever ran my route was the day EDD went into the DIAD but before the preload changed how they loaded the trucks. Knowing exactly where everything was going to be in the truck (on an everyday basis) plus knowing what was there (seeing it in EDD) shaved 1/2 hr. off my time the first day and would have only gotten better. But by day 3 the preload was loading with PAS/EDD and it has been downhill from there.

 

[pretzel_man]

I suspect the only reason miles "improved" after PAS/EDD were because of all the route cutbacks. What little UPS saved in miles they have paid for in OT.

I'll tell you that the fastest I ever ran my route was the day EDD went into the DIAD but before the preload changed how they loaded the trucks. Knowing exactly where everything was going to be in the truck (on an everyday basis) plus knowing what was there (seeing it in EDD) shaved 1/2 hr. off my time the first day and would have only gotten better. But by day 3 the preload was loading with PAS/EDD and it has been downhill from there.

Again, efficiency has improved after PAS / EDD. Maybe not for your route, but for UPS.

As I said, it did NOT improve to the extent possible or advertised. No doubt.... but it has improved.

 

[serenity now]

I remember when PAS/EDD was implemented. We were told even a monkey could load. Let me tell you, bring on that monkey because my loader is terrible. Its not in stop for stop order like it was advertised.

loader has already put 15-20 boxes with unique markings in the truck next to mine; destined for a food processing plant * along comes another one of those same boxes but it flipped the PAL * does he question it? does he compare label and PAL? does he read the label and ponder the actual physical location of the plant? NO,NO, AND NO
he loads it on my truck

 

[Ms.PacMan]

Again, efficiency has improved after PAS / EDD. Maybe not for your route, but for UPS.

As I said, it did NOT improve to the extent possible or advertised. No doubt.... but it has improved.

Did you even read my response? It took 1/2 hr off my time until it was implemented to include the preload.

Perhaps UPS needs to start looking for the unadvertised ways it can cut costs. IMO if we went back to the old preloading methods (same truck configuration everyday) with EDD in the DIAD + ORION, I could see huge gains.

Your arrogance and these crazy dispatches and loads on a daily basis are killing any savings this technology could provide.

 

[pretzel_man]

Did you even read my response? It took 1/2 hr off my time until it was implemented to include the preload.

Perhaps UPS needs to start looking for the unadvertised ways it can cut costs. IMO if we went back to the old preloading methods (same truck configuration everyday) with EDD in the DIAD + ORION, I could see huge gains.

Your arrogance and these crazy dispatches and loads on a daily basis are killing any savings this technology could provide.

Ms Pac Man,

I never said I didn't believe you. You have one route out of 55,000. Your center is one out of 1,200.

UPS as a whole does NOT have the same result.

I'm now saying for the third time, that while you and your center may have saved zero. That's not true for UPS as a whole.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

What they are saying is mostly true.

If the system thinks you have different packages than you do, it won't work properly. They should be monitoring the preload.

If the trace is totally screwed up, it won't work properly. This gets to you other statement.

If ORION has you bouncing aound the shelves all day, then something is wrong with the trace. It knows what the trace is and tries to follow it. If you can't follow the trace at all, ORION can't either. It improves on a decent trace. It cannot fix a bad trace.

Good luck.

Agree, because it's not skill that will determine a good dispatch, trace, load, preload wrap, etc etc.

 

[hellfire]

Did you even read my response? It took 1/2 hr off my time until it was implemented to include the preload.

Perhaps UPS needs to start looking for the unadvertised ways it can cut costs. IMO if we went back to the old preloading methods (same truck configuration everyday) with EDD in the DIAD + ORION, I could see huge gains.

Your arrogance and these crazy dispatches and loads on a daily basis are killing any savings this technology could provide.

stop wasting your time with the pretzel persona,, if he is truly corporate, his out of touch mentality is the problem.. i have made the statement before and i will again.. pretzel,, you know all, and have simple answers for the PANDEMIC state of operations,, so why dont you assume the position of center manager,, and change centers monthly ,,and fix the centers to run the out of touch ideas you spew.. i mean really its that easy

 

[pretzel_man]

stop wasting your time with the pretzel persona,, if he is truly corporate, his out of touch mentality is the problem.. i have made the statement before and i will again.. pretzel,, you know all, and have simple answers for the PANDEMIC state of operations,, so why dont you assume the position of center manager,, and change centers monthly ,,and fix the centers to run the out of touch ideas you spew.. i mean really its that easy

You obvously don't know what I've done in my years with UPS.

When you don't like what I say, you choose to just say I'm out of touch.

While I'm not in centers every day, I've worked with and fixed many, many dispatches. I'll bet I've spoken to and worked with many more drivers than you have.

When you don't like the facts, you ignore them. Funny, but that's exactly what you accuse me of doing.

I have spend more time in your shoes than you have in mine.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

You obvously don't know what I've done in my years with UPS.

When you don't like what I say, you choose to just say I'm out of touch.

While I'm not in centers every day, I've worked with and fixed many, many dispatches. I'll bet I've spoken to and worked with many more drivers than you have.

When you don't like the facts, you ignore them. Funny, but that's exactly what you accuse me of doing.

I have spend more time in your shoes than you have in mine.

I have spent no time in your shoes. BUT, if you have a warm pair of snowmobile boots, I am willing to jump in with both feet.

 

[SignificantOwner]

I've said many times that no system is perfect. ORION is one of those less than perfect systems.

While everyone is complaining about selection, I have a question......

My house has a HIN of 7300 (I just checked).

If I get an NDA package and you are here at 10AM, are you NOT going to get out my ground package that is on teh 7000 shelf? Will you at least weigh the time saved by NOT driving here again against the bother of finding my other package?

How about my neighbor? If he has a package that day, are you going to grab his from the 7000 shelf?

Not coming to my neighborhood twice will certainly shave off quite a few miles (and time) if you can get it all delivered while you deliver my NDA package. Isn't this what an effective driver would do?

If getting the ground packages delivered in the morning will save only 1/4 mile (or jeopardize service), I could see you saying no. If it can save 5 miles (and not impact service), any select penalty is probably worth it. Don't you try and make those choices?

ORION is doing the same thing. It is trying to not go to my neighborhood twice. Its trying to think through what to deliver and not go to places twice.

If we were to wait for the perfect system before taking a step, we would still be delivering on paper.

I think the corporate folks put together a good system that will take a number of years to reach full potential. I think (as has happened before) that some sites will do great.

Others will screw it up. Those managers that screw it up will sour many good people on a good system.

That's unfortunate, but predictable. That doesn't make the system or decision wrong.....

Drivers are getting talked with daily about excess that's built in to this system, and that's not a screw- up that will make people sour on it? People that live in glass houses...

 

[QKRSTKR]

The miles saved are mostly to/from miles. So yes miles have been reduced. My old bid I saved 14 miles a day just right there. Of course I have to go thru way more intersections and It takes just as long. So there is a little over allowed right there. We have some routes that have to drive a long way thru town. No one in there right mind would travel these paths when there is a by-pass that is faster.

Upstate, it would work if you know where a stop is loaded for sure. I Found that if I even started moving stuff around in the car to a different shelf or whatever, sometimes you have to stop and think, "where the hell did I put that?" If your going to follow orion, the only way to sort your load is by seq. #. before orion i never had to cause i knew the exact trace of the route. Now you have to actually look at the Diad to see where a stop is loaded. You generally know, but not for sure. Where as before if you were working the 6000 shelf, pretty much all your next so many stops were on the 6000 shelf. Now you can go from 6000 to 7000 to 8000 back to 6000. Like I said, they retraced all our routes and really screwed it up. If they would have left them alone, it would have been better.

 

[LagunaBrown]

I have a group of customers that ship UPS and need pkgs in the A.M. to turn them around for delivery in the P.M. Is this gonna tell me not to take care of my customers by running in trace?