Have you heard of the Orion System, what do you know?

[brownmonster]

ORION optimizes constantly durning the preload sort. it is based what is actually spad to the route, not forecasted data. The problem with loading the car in Orion order, is that some buildings run day sorts and start spaing stops for tomorrow today. Also the Orion solution can change with every new package spad. So the loader would have to constantly reorganize the load.

I optimize every day already depending on where my commit time pkgs land.

 

[pretzel_man]

So how much additional time will we be "allowed" for package selection now that we are no longer going to be using the 30-60" shelf selection method and will instead be expected to go into a blown out car and search for whatever stop ORION tells us to do next?

I asked the same question. The answer is none... Yet....

They said they are looking at it and trying to measure it. If you have a blown out car, you are definitely impacted. If not, less so.

Then again, since you don't recognize the work measurement, does it really matter?

 

[menotyou]

I asked the same question. The answer is none... Yet....

They said they are looking at it and trying to measure it. If you have a blown out car, you are definitely impacted. If not, less so.

Then again, since you don't recognize the work measurement, does it really matter?

It does, as they do. I was amazed at the changes that have occurred. On another note, back from three years off and no training. Things have changed.

 

[SignificantOwner]

So how much additional time will we be "allowed" for package selection now that we are no longer going to be using the 30-60" shelf selection method and will instead be expected to go into a blown out car and search for whatever stop ORION tells us to do next?

This question never gets an intellectual response. The internet is full of hype about the mathematicians on this project but it's crickets when this subject comes up.

 

[SignificantOwner]

I asked the same question. The answer is none... Yet....

They said they are looking at it and trying to measure it. If you have a blown out car, you are definitely impacted. If not, less so.

Then again, since you don't recognize the work measurement, does it really matter?

I heard over/under was one of the measures on the scorecard for centers getting this system. If true it defies logic.

 

[cosmo1]

It does, as they do. I was amazed at the changes that have occurred. On another note, back from three years off and no training. Things have changed.

So, how did the first day go?

 

[BrownArmy]

This question never gets an intellectual response. The internet is full of hype about the mathematicians on this project but it's crickets when this subject comes up.

I'm not sure there is an intellectual response...

Whatever the math-heads are cooking up looks absolutely brilliant on paper, but will only take you to a certain point...unless NASA or DARPA decide to let UPS use their supercomputers, ORION is an SAT exercise with a neat answer.

If you have a blown out car, you are definitely impacted...

I love your posts P-man, but over 75% of the trucks in my center are 'blown-out'. It's been Peak for about three years (at least during the real Peak the delivery area tightens up and I get a helper...). We routinely have drivers going out with 250+ stops, and these are the 'split' cars...the regular routes are hammered.

The DOL's in my center are more or less OK, I'd say about 85% of the way toward awesomeness...I'm a cover driver so I see most of them. The drivers in my center have very excellent suggestions as to changing certain things in the listings here or there, but it never happens, perhaps because the dispatch guy is WAY to busy with the endless add-cuts to properly go in and change the multiple instances over different route configurations.

Really simple changes, like removing schools/churches/businesses in resi-sections from the 8000 section (which always gets cut...love showing up to my second town at 1800 with a pkg for a school ), reordering house-number rankings for one-way streets, removing that one dick house number which is actually on a dead-end across the major road which bisects two routes, etc. Dispatch guy simply doesn't have the time to go in and make these simple changes across %$^ different route plans.

(The other day, after add-cutting, I practically high-fived another driver on-route, as we both had pkgs for the same streets, same section: on one street, I had 76, he had 78 and 74...on another street, I had 31, he had 25, 7 and 3. I realize this must be the result of some sloppy mouse clicks, but if this is what they're going to build ORION on, in my center, I don't predict a smashing success)

Having said all that, I embrace technological advances, and they all have to start somewhere. I'm a fairly new driver (only five years in), and I started on DIAD 4. I'm sure drivers bitched when the move was made from paper to DIAD 1. I'm sure we'll bitch when we move from DIAD 4 to DIAD 5, and then new routines will set in and we'll be fine. Look, us drivers are just going to bitch. ORION is a great idea, and it's a starting point.

But some of our bitching is for a reason. EDD/PAS was in play when I started at UPS, and like I said, as a center we're probably 85% implemented. It works as well as it does, which must be well enough: my guess is that the pain of climbing closer to 100% is somehow higher than the constant pains of only being at 85%.

The initial implementation of ORION will only be as good as the foundations it's built upon.

 

[soberups]

I asked the same question. The answer is none... Yet....

They said they are looking at it and trying to measure it. If you have a blown out car, you are definitely impacted. If not, less so.

Then again, since you don't recognize the work measurement, does it really matter?

P-man,

We do not recognize the work measurement as a basis for discipline.

We do recognize the fact that it exists, and that (theoretically at least) it is a tool to determine how much work each route should be dispatched with.

You state that "they are looking at and trying to measure" the effect that doing away with the 30-60" shelf selection method will have on the amount of time we are allowed to select the package that ORION is instructing us to deliver. Shouldnt this vital and critical piece of information have been thoroughly researched and calculated before going ahead and spending millions and millions of dollars to develop and install the system nationwide? Or, as I strongly suspect, did the company already decide prior to implementation that no additional allowance would be given?

 

[soberups]

This question never gets an intellectual response. The internet is full of hype about the mathematicians on this project but it's crickets when this subject comes up.

In all likelihood the decision was made to go ahead and implement the program basing everything on a best-case scenario regardless of any inconvenient truths that might pop up during the process. Our motto; "if it doesnt work, pretend that it works."

 

[BrownArmy]

In all likelihood the decision was made to go ahead and implement the program basing everything on a best-case scenario regardless of any inconvenient truths that might pop up during the process. Our motto; "if it doesnt work, pretend that it works."

To be fair, I'm pretty sure this is the norm across most companies.

My father is an engineer; he 'engineered' for several companies but eventually went into project management, where he excels.

He asked me why I didn't want to go into UPS management...I explained to him (as best I could) that his management experience had little or nothing to do with the UPS management experience.

When I tell him about the logistical FUBARs that occur daily, he seems befuddled, but he can match my stories with equal stories about incompetence at various levels in his job.

Back to the point...is UPS intentionally trying to screw us?

Absolutely not.

They're just implementing new toys, and we're the one's who will have to deal with the spilled milk.

 

[menotyou]

So, how did the first day go?

It went well. Thank you. Better still, I feel ok today. I wasn't sure if I'd be curled up in a ball of pain, but I'm not. I was more sore last night. I think this gamble just might work out!!!

 

[QKRSTKR]

I asked the same question. The answer is none... Yet....

They said they are looking at it and trying to measure it. If you have a blown out car, you are definitely impacted. If not, less so.

Then again, since you don't recognize the work measurement, does it really matter?

I don't see how you can measure it. My 20th stop could be on the 2000 shelf, yours could be a 8000 shelf. How do you put one measure on it when it's different everyday for every driver? The real time loss is searching for packages, not walking back to rear of car. As we all know, preloaders section load, if its on the 7000 shelf, doesn't matter if its a 7100 or 7900. When you have to look thru a whole section it kills a lot of time.

 

[pretzel_man]

P-man,

We do not recognize the work measurement as a basis for discipline.

We do recognize the fact that it exists, and that (theoretically at least) it is a tool to determine how much work each route should be dispatched with.

You state that "they are looking at and trying to measure" the effect that doing away with the 30-60" shelf selection method will have on the amount of time we are allowed to select the package that ORION is instructing us to deliver. Shouldnt this vital and critical piece of information have been thoroughly researched and calculated before going ahead and spending millions and millions of dollars to develop and install the system nationwide? Or, as I strongly suspect, did the company already decide prior to implementation that no additional allowance would be given?

All right. Here is a more full answer.

They did measure. They measured with 500+ drivers across the U.S. Those tests did NOT show impact on overallowed.

This year, they DID see some overallowed changes. The cause of the change may (or may not) be due to select. Remember, the system also changes travel. So, they are looking at it.

You act like corporate is full of keystone cops. They measure everything. The cost improvements in almost every site are significant.

For the first time, we have a "good" measure on travel. That was always the most hard to measure area.

Will it work for every driver. No..... Will it work as a whole? Yes.

Will the some deployement people and centers teams screw things up? That's certain.

It's still the right move.

 

[pretzel_man]

I've said many times that no system is perfect. ORION is one of those less than perfect systems.

While everyone is complaining about selection, I have a question......

My house has a HIN of 7300 (I just checked).

If I get an NDA package and you are here at 10AM, are you NOT going to get out my ground package that is on teh 7000 shelf? Will you at least weigh the time saved by NOT driving here again against the bother of finding my other package?

How about my neighbor? If he has a package that day, are you going to grab his from the 7000 shelf?

Not coming to my neighborhood twice will certainly shave off quite a few miles (and time) if you can get it all delivered while you deliver my NDA package. Isn't this what an effective driver would do?

If getting the ground packages delivered in the morning will save only 1/4 mile (or jeopardize service), I could see you saying no. If it can save 5 miles (and not impact service), any select penalty is probably worth it. Don't you try and make those choices?

ORION is doing the same thing. It is trying to not go to my neighborhood twice. Its trying to think through what to deliver and not go to places twice.

If we were to wait for the perfect system before taking a step, we would still be delivering on paper.

I think the corporate folks put together a good system that will take a number of years to reach full potential. I think (as has happened before) that some sites will do great.

Others will screw it up. Those managers that screw it up will sour many good people on a good system.

That's unfortunate, but predictable. That doesn't make the system or decision wrong.....

 

[scratch]

With all due respect, I already do what ORION is trying to do. If I can get my ground off with the Next Day Air or maybe finish off that neighborhood at the same time, I do it. Its just plain old school driver's knowledge, I try to work smart instead of hard. Technology is great if its implemented correctly, unfortunately that hasn't been the case ever since we went on PAS/EDD. Missorts and bad loads are the norm these days, it seems like I lose a lot of time fixing mistakes that used to not happen.

 

[thedownhillEXPRESS]

I've said many times that no system is perfect. ORION is one of those less than perfect systems.

While everyone is complaining about selection, I have a question......

My house has a HIN of 7300 (I just checked).

If I get an NDA package and you are here at 10AM, are you NOT going to get out my ground package that is on teh 7000 shelf? Will you at least weigh the time saved by NOT driving here again against the bother of finding my other package?

How about my neighbor? If he has a package that day, are you going to grab his from the 7000 shelf?

Not coming to my neighborhood twice will certainly shave off quite a few miles (and time) if you can get it all delivered while you deliver my NDA package. Isn't this what an effective driver would do?

If getting the ground packages delivered in the morning will save only 1/4 mile (or jeopardize service), I could see you saying no. If it can save 5 miles (and not impact service), any select penalty is probably worth it. Don't you try and make those choices?

ORION is doing the same thing. It is trying to not go to my neighborhood twice. Its trying to think through what to deliver and not go to places twice.

If we were to wait for the perfect system before taking a step, we would still be delivering on paper.

I think the corporate folks put together a good system that will take a number of years to reach full potential. I think (as has happened before) that some sites will do great.

Others will screw it up. Those managers that screw it up will sour many good people on a good system.

That's unfortunate, but predictable. That doesn't make the system or decision wrong.....

Why not save a couple hundred mil and just go back to trying to hire qualified drivers?

All of this just to try and replicate what a good experienced driver would do,or "think"..... for what?

 

[iowa boy]

Why not save a couple hundred mil and just go back to trying to hire qualified drivers?

All of this just to try and replicate what a good experienced driver would do,or "think"..... for what?

For the simple reason that us as drivers can't be trusted, let alone be trusted to 'think' on our own like a good experienced driver should be able to do.

 

[pretzel_man]

With all due respect, I already do what ORION is trying to do. If I can get my ground off with the Next Day Air or maybe finish off that neighborhood at the same time, I do it. Its just plain old school driver's knowledge, I try to work smart instead of hard. Technology is great if its implemented correctly, unfortunately that hasn't been the case ever since we went on PAS/EDD. Missorts and bad loads are the norm these days, it seems like I lose a lot of time fixing mistakes that used to not happen.

Why not save a couple hundred mil and just go back to trying to hire qualified drivers?

All of this just to try and replicate what a good experienced driver would do,or "think"..... for what?

So, did we just come full circle???

First it was said that ORION won't work because it's not logical or possible to do what it says.

Then, when I point out what ORION does, it is said that of course, dirvers already do that. So, then ORION is not needed.

Let me point out.... Over 3,000 drivers are using ORION today. As a group, they have significantly reduced miles and cost (based on the latest information I saw).

I guess not all drivers are as good as those on this board.....

 

[cino321]

My house has a HIN of 7300 (I just checked).

If I get an NDA package and you are here at 10AM, are you NOT going to get out my ground package that is on teh 7000 shelf? Will you at least weigh the time saved by NOT driving here again against the bother of finding my other package?

How about my neighbor? If he has a package that day, are you going to grab his from the 7000 shelf?

Not coming to my neighborhood twice will certainly shave off quite a few miles (and time) if you can get it all delivered while you deliver my NDA package. Isn't this what an effective driver would do?

Can't remember the last time I've left the building before 9:30. I can't even finish my NDA everyday on time let alone deliver any ground with it. Haven't seen days like that in awhile.

 

[cosmo1]

......My house has a HIN of 7300 (I just checked)......

Just out of curiosity, how many "plans" did you look at? I get so many different areas from one day to the next, that you could be anywhere in my load (assuming the DPS didn't thoroughly mix things up).