Hoffa is already selling us out.

[BigUnionGuy]

@BigUnionGuy , will the IBT ever let UPS off the hook for making up the difference in the CS part of our pension...in your opinion?

In my opinion, no.

It seems that in a few years they'll be holding the whole bag. When I turn 65 will the company then no longer be liable to make up the difference?

It would take a change in contract language. If Central states goes down, well....

the company wanted out, and will have to lie in the bed they made.

Yea @BigUnionGuy, at what point will UPS realize that the previously "unborn" will be in the mathematical position to sell us out, like we have sold them out for the last few decades?

I'm not big on hypothetical speculation. To many variables.

I guess if they quit making tide pods.

What does this got to do with the Germans?

That took me a minute.

-Bug-

 

[cachmeifucan]

I felt this way until I saw the reActions to the initial proposal that was released.


Most teamsters have no idea how negotiations work (its sad but true) releasing the initial proposal is just going to lead to no votes over unrealistic expectations

So your saying most of us are not smart enough. So punish the ones who actually can understand it and explain it to others. Even though your right some people don't understand but if it was explained by someone who does. Transparency keeps our side fighting harder for us.

 

[Delivered]

@BigUnionGuy , will the IBT ever let UPS off the hook for making up the difference in the CS part of our pension...in your opinion?

UPS knows exactly when the numbers of those affected by the CS pension start to fall in favor of the company. The very fact that their promise was reduced to a section of the contract and currently expires Jul 31st should speak volumes. The company will offer some sort of signing bonus (years down the road) in order for those unaffected by the crisis to throw us under the proverbial bus

 

[Bubblehead]

Yea @BigUnionGuy, at what point will UPS realize that the previously "unborn" will be in the mathematical position to sell us out, like we have sold them out for the last few decades?

UPS knows exactly when the numbers of those affected by the CS pension start to fall in favor of the company. The very fact that their promise was reduced to a section of the contract and currently expires Jul 31st should speak volumes. The company will offer some sort of signing bonus (years down the road) in order for those unaffected by the crisis to throw us under the proverbial bus

This is exactly what I was inferring, albeit "hypothetical" @BigUnionGuy.

Let's remember, every full time employee with 10 years or less of full time seniority, has no skin in the Central State Pension Fund.
Couple that with the fact that part timers out number full timers, I wonder whether it's a feasible plan, sooner than later?

 

[BigUnionGuy]

This is exactly what I was inferring, albeit "hypothetical" @BigUnionGuy.

Let's remember, every full time employee with 10 years or less of full time seniority, has no skin in the Central State Pension Fund.
Couple that with the fact that part timers out number full timers, I wonder whether it's a feasible plan, sooner than later?

I understand what you're saying, it's just a little to much "chicken little syndrome"

for me. Just as pension increases aren't retroactive for retired members, people

that retire prior to that (possibly) happening, wouldn't be affected.



-Bug-

 

[DELACROIX]

This is exactly what I was inferring, albeit "hypothetical" @BigUnionGuy.

Let's remember, every full time employee with 10 years or less of full time seniority, has no skin in the Central State Pension Fund.
Couple that with the fact that part timers out number full timers, I wonder whether it's a feasible plan, sooner than later?

You all have to remember that most of us full timers have vested time under the UPS Pension Plan as part timers. The retirement formula for that plan could be negotiated with this contract to help with the Central States issues. The company has total control with it's monetary benefits (for example their proposal back in l997 to provide 50 dollars per service year with the "Last and Final Contract Proposal"). I fear that creativity is severely lacking with what is being brought to the table with this contract.

 

[Bubblehead]

I understand what you're saying, it's just a little to much "chicken little syndrome"

for me. Just as pension increases aren't retroactive for retired members, people

that retire prior to that (possibly) happening, wouldn't be affected.



-Bug-

"Chicken Little Syndrome".....really???

When UPS paid their $6 billion plus in withdraw liability and negotiated the present contractual guarantee in 2007, the actuarial projections could not have accurately projected what happened to the fund in the years that followed.

Now with the clarity afforded by 10 years of hindsight, there is no way that UPS isn't exploring every avenue possible to limit the enormous, mounting liability that contractual guarantee presents....

....because in regards to the Central States Pension Fund, "the sky is most certainly falling"




~Bbbl~™

 

[cachmeifucan]

Does anyone know the break down between full-time and part time I think altogether 240,000 appox. How big is central states and how many people.

 

[Delivered]

Does anyone know the break down between full-time and part time I think altogether 240,000 appox. How big is central states and how many people.

Part-time UPSers are covered under the company plan and not vested in CS to my knowledge.

CSPF last reported 397,492 Participants of which 83.8% were inactive

 

[Bubblehead]

Part-time UPSers are covered under the company plan and not vested in CS to my knowledge.

CSPF last reported 397,492 Participants of which 83.8% were inactive

With this in mind, and the enormous mounting liability in regards to the pension guarantee, is there any way UPS isn't exploring every option to eliminate that language?

We may be able to perpetuate the guarantee for one more contract, but without some sort of bailout, I can't imagine that it won't be the Company's #1 priority next time.

 

[DELACROIX]

With this in mind, and the enormous mounting liability in regards to the pension guarantee, is there any way UPS isn't exploring every option to eliminate that language?

We may be able to perpetuate the guarantee for one more contract, but without some sort of bailout, I can't imagine that it won't be the Company's #1 priority next time.

There would a lot of Happy Dancing in Atlanta if they could get out the liability issue of covering the difference if the Central States fund goes south or is reduced. Guessing it is one of those ironclad no way around it agreements, otherwise the company would of found a loophole with their high price law firms.

Any reduction with that language would never get pass the table and certainly be voted down if it did.

 

[Bubblehead]

There would a lot of Happy Dancing in Atlanta if they could get out the liability issue of covering the difference if the Central States fund goes south or is reduced. Guessing it is one of those ironclad no way around it agreements, otherwise the company would of found a loophole with their high price law firms.

Any reduction with that language would never get pass the table and certainly be voted down if it did.

If that's what you think, then you aren't doing the math.

All full time employee with 10 years or less have no skin in this game, nor do any part time employees.
That already gives the Company a vast majority to entice.

Every day that passes, those numbers get better for UPS, while their liability grows.

I have 14 years vested in Central States and am not nearly as comfortable as you seem to be?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Any reduction with that language would never get pass the table and certainly be voted down if it did.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Current employees in general have little regard for those who came before them and would have no problem throwing them under the bus if offered a financial incentive (bonus) to do so.

 

[Bubblehead]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Current employees in general have little regard for those who came before them and would have no problem throwing them under the bus if offered a financial incentive (bonus) to do so.

Current employees have shown little regard for those who came after them in recent collective bargaining agreements as well.....so why would any large degree of loyalty be expected here?

You Dave, are the perfect illustration of what I'm talking about.
21st century Teamsters have forgotten the notion of "paying it forward", which was the cornerstone of this once great Union.

In a blink of the eye, many of us may reap what you have sewn.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Current employees have shown little regard for those who came after them in recent collective bargaining agreements as well.....so why would any large degree of loyalty be expected here?

You Dave, are the perfect illustration of what I'm talking about.
21st century Teamsters have forgotten the notion of "paying it forward", which was the cornerstone of this once great Union.

In a blink of the eye, many of us may reap what you have sewn.

I did not apply at UPS to fulfill a life long dream to be a Teamster. I applied to support my family. It is no secret that I take care of myself first and worry about others later, it at all.

 

[Bubblehead]

I did not apply at UPS to fulfill a life long dream to be a Teamster. I applied to support my family. It is no secret that I take care of myself first and worry about others later, it at all.

I won't waste any more bandwidth trying to explain it to you....

I'll just say, on behalf of all real Teamsters,.....your welcome.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Current employees have shown little regard for those who came after them in recent collective bargaining agreements as well.....so why would any large degree of loyalty be expected here?

You Dave, are the perfect illustration of what I'm talking about.
21st century Teamsters have forgotten the notion of "paying it forward", which was the cornerstone of this once great Union.

In a blink of the eye, many of us may reap what you have sewn.

Ya and I wouldn't expect that to change. All people do is bitch and moan about "millennials" and how terrible they are. Don't expect future employees to care about people who do nothing but chastise them. Instead of reaching out and teaching they just complain. Same as it ever was I guess.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

Current employees have shown little regard for those who came after them in recent collective bargaining agreements as well.....so why would any large degree of loyalty be expected here?

You Dave, are the perfect illustration of what I'm talking about.
21st century Teamsters have forgotten the notion of "paying it forward", which was the cornerstone of this once great Union.

In a blink of the eye, many of us may reap what you have sewn.

Ya dude he took the job and became management with a union card. Hes the weakest part of the union poster child.

I did not apply at UPS to fulfill a life long dream to be a Teamster. I applied to support my family. It is no secret that I take care of myself first and worry about others later, it at all.

There you go.

 

[DELACROIX]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Current employees in general have little regard for those who came before them and would have no problem throwing them under the bus if offered a financial incentive (bonus) to do so.

Trust me I know how it feels to be thrown under that bus. I keep expecting the high ground to be taken with these contract negotiations, it generally ends up with a minority group being left out by those who would most benefit on the negotiating committees. Do whatever is needed to be re-elected and continue to swim downstream with the rest of them.

I agree with your observation, for the most part members vote on the contracts without knowing or caring on who is left behind. It is generally about Me, Myself and I and hell with the rest.

 

[BrownFlush]

''That which is, already has been; that which is to be, already has been.'' -- Ecclesiastes 3:15