How bummed will Laguna and Tony Q be when this contract goes down in flames?

Brown Biscuit

Blind every day
The last few months have been pretty entertaining watching these two DESPERATELY try to push the Yes campaign. Just a heads up— not a good look! Can’t wait until this POS gets voted down and you two vanish back into whatever hole UPS dug you out of.
 

Box Ox

Well-Known Member
If people didn’t pay them any attention they would have disappeared a long time ago.

I think it was important for everybody, particularly casual lurkers, to see factual responses to their disinformation posts and campaigns. Probably would have been “yes” votes otherwise.
 

rpoz11

Well-Known Member
this is brownlaguna's last chance to his own self puppet campaign for BA

sorry bro but that job is filled and still will be long after your doubles stint
 

Just A UPS Guy

That's right, Iceman...I am dangerous.
I think it was important for everybody, particularly casual lurkers, to see factual responses to their disinformation posts and campaigns. Probably would have been “yes” votes otherwise.

To be fair, they haven't really provided much misinformation, they just have a different perspective and are RELENTLESS in pushing their point of view. I really see more misinformation and blatant conjecture from the "no" crowd. I voted against it, but some of the :censored2: that comes out on here is just crazy. I will admit that saying a "no" vote essentially means a strike is pretty ridiculous though.
 

PT Car Washer

Well-Known Member
To be fair, they haven't really provided much misinformation, they just have a different perspective and are RELENTLESS in pushing their point of view. I really see more misinformation and blatant conjecture from the "no" crowd. I voted against it, but some of the :censored2: that comes out on here is just crazy. I will admit that saying a "no" vote essentially means a strike is pretty ridiculous though.
To be fair the very vocal vote no campaigners have been pretty crazy with their tales of the Apocalypse if this contract passes. I am still sitting on the fence having not decided but many high seniority PT and FT (35+years) have told me they have voted yes. Most don't believe we will get a better deal if the contract does not pass. A no vote will only delay for months the improvements and raises and in the end the IBT will impose it anyway.
 

cachmeifucan

Well-Known Member
If it passes they will be happy. And we get screwed. I have lost all confidence in our national union. Our local leaders are so strong but I feel like we are handcuffed not to show up the national. Our Pension Isn't The Best But It's IN Good Shape. Maybe because they are working us to death.
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
I really see more misinformation and blatant conjecture from the "no" crowd.


That whole crowd is still upset with Canada.


Never mind.... that Fred Z was thrust into the position to run for GP, because Tim S

couldn't even win his Local Union election.


Now, Fred Z is willing to take a "second seat" to Sean.

That is the epitome of weakness.


Why would Fred Z be pushing for a "yes" vote on the Local 89 Rider....

after he "flip flopped" from his previous endorsement ?



-Bug-
 

zubenelgenubi

天安门大屠杀
To be fair, they haven't really provided much misinformation, they just have a different perspective and are RELENTLESS in pushing their point of view. I really see more misinformation and blatant conjecture from the "no" crowd. I voted against it, but some of the :censored2: that comes out on here is just crazy. I will admit that saying a "no" vote essentially means a strike is pretty ridiculous though.

To be fair, The yessers use poor logic to support their opinions, scare tactics based on lies to sway undecided voters, their entire premise for supporting the contract is based on a complete lack of understanding of basic economic principals (i.e. inflation), they have demonstrated a complete inability or unwillingness to answer legitimate questions, and I could go on and on. But you're right, the yessers are the reasonable ones, and the "vote no crowd" are raving lunatics.

The "conjecture", as you put it, is actually people trying to suggest what could happen if the contract passes. The reasonable response to such is to explain why things won't turn out that way. But no one has any real answers, just more conjecture and speculation. It's the difference between people understanding that poorly written language needs to be fixed,and people who, for whatever reason, want to go along to get along and maintain the status quo.
 

Heavy Package

Well-Known Member
I can see a Yes vote argument. I can summarize the best points:

1. Pay increases for most PT-ers
2. Keep health / welfare / pension benefits
3. 9.5 protections / OT reductions
4. $40/hr FT and $17 / hr PT to move cardboard by the end of the contract

The problem is the concessions for existing PT with more than 3-4 years with the company, 22.4 driver classification, and other concessions mentioned at length are just too much.

To those that voted yes-Your short-term interests are easily outweighed by the huge negatives if you want UPS to be a career for you.

Friday night will be a bellwether moment for the future of UPS employees and the Teamsters Union
 

Just A UPS Guy

That's right, Iceman...I am dangerous.
To be fair, The yessers use poor logic to support their opinions, scare tactics based on lies to sway undecided voters, their entire premise for supporting the contract is based on a complete lack of understanding of basic economic principals (i.e. inflation), they have demonstrated a complete inability or unwillingness to answer legitimate questions, and I could go on and on. But you're right, the yessers are the reasonable ones, and the "vote no crowd" are raving lunatics.

The "conjecture", as you put it, is actually people trying to suggest what could happen if the contract passes. The reasonable response to such is to explain why things won't turn out that way. But no one has any real answers, just more conjecture and speculation. It's the difference between people understanding that poorly written language needs to be fixed,and people who, for whatever reason, want to go along to get along and maintain the status quo.

I agree, I just can't stand all of the speculation trying to be sold as fact on either side.
 

zubenelgenubi

天安门大屠杀
I agree, I just can't stand all of the speculation trying to be sold as fact on either side.

Can't speak for others but I was always only seeking real input in order to form as educated a decision as possible. When all I got from those who should have the answers was deflection, stonewalling and just plain bad information and logic, that told me everything I needed to know.
 

zubenelgenubi

天安门大屠杀
I can see a Yes vote argument. I can summarize the best points:

1. Pay increases for most PT-ers
2. Keep health / welfare / pension benefits
3. 9.5 protections / OT reductions
4. $40/hr FT and $17 / hr PT to move cardboard by the end of the contract

The problem is the concessions for existing PT with more than 3-4 years with the company, 22.4 driver classification, and other concessions mentioned at length are just too much.

To those that voted yes-Your short-term interests are easily outweighed by the huge negatives if you want UPS to be a career for you.

Friday night will be a bellwether moment for the future of UPS employees and the Teamsters Union

The sad part is those are the best arguments, and they're all terrible at worst and just ok at best if you actually examine them at any depth.
 

LagunaBrown

Well-Known Member
this is brownlaguna's last chance to his own self puppet campaign for BA

sorry bro but that job is filled and still will be long after your doubles stint
LOL! Same old line shows how little you know. What is funny is how I can accept no votes on regions depending on the supplements and riders yet you guys cant accept a yes vote. That say a lot.
 

LagunaBrown

Well-Known Member
The last few months have been pretty entertaining watching these two DESPERATELY try to push the Yes campaign. Just a heads up— not a good look! Can’t wait until this POS gets voted down and you two vanish back into whatever hole UPS dug you out of.
Actually I won’t be bummed either way. I don’t loose any sleep over this like my puppy dog @DriveInDriveOut does or all the vote no crybabies that want to go financial core if they don’t get their way. It simply means the membership voted no but, I do find it funny that half you guys did not even know you already had two tier drivers while the other half still use off the street hires. I mean really, you guys were telling people to vote no before you even got to read the contract. All in all I am not convinced either side has this thing in the bag so I wouldn’t be surprised with more drama yet to come. I will admit I do want to see the results already and move on.
 
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badpal

Well-Known Member
Well at this point i sure all but a handfull of votes left to cast. Think now next friday night we all better look up in the sky and say a collective GOD HELP US no matter the outcome.
 
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