I A M penison out of money

[Redtag]

Add up how much you need to save for a lifetime payout of $5000 a month. It's a lot more than 5 percent match.

You would need north of a million to get through 20 years of retirement at that rate. Oh, and your one recession away from disaster.

Companies love matching 401k plans because all the risk is on the employee and they know a percentage of employees won't be able to afford to put 5 percent or whatever the company offers to match.



Loosing our pensions to a 401k would be a total setback in compensation for us.

 

[Bubblehead]

That is one reason. Another is that the math never works. At some point there will be more people drawing from it than contributing to it and the slow death begins. UPS will cry to the courts that it cannot afford to prop up a pension anymore and will file bankruptcy to get out from under the obligation. The courts allowed the airlines to do it and will allow UPS to do it.

This is why I have been known to compare these pension funds to Ponzi schemes.

If the only way to maintain them is to have a similar number of people paying in, verses those who are drawing benefits, how is that not a parallel comparison?

 

[barnyard]

Right now, laws do not favor an individual 401k that would allow for $50k/yr contribution and that is a problem. Many of us already max out our 401k contribution, a company contribution, up to $50-75k/yr has to be allowed. What I envision is either a 1-1 match or for every $1 I put in, the company puts in $2.

If there were that kind of retirement, I would be maxed out and gone in 25 years.

 

[1989]

Right now, laws do not favor an individual 401k that would allow for $50k/yr contribution and that is a problem. Many of us already max out our 401k contribution, a company contribution, up to $50-75k/yr has to be allowed. What I envision is either a 1-1 match or for every $1 I put in, the company puts in $2.

If there were that kind of retirement, I would be maxed out and gone in 25 years.

The 401k was never intended to replace the pension, but to only supplement it.

 

[watdaflock?]

cutting everything

Neat.

 

[Mugarolla]

The 401k was never intended to replace the pension, but to only supplement it.

Untrue.

UPS proposed a matching 401k to replace the defined pension.

 

[Bubblehead]

The 401k was never intended to replace the pension, but to only supplement it.

Untrue.

UPS proposed a matching 401k to replace the defined pension.

The 401k was conceived as a tax shelter (Kodak) in the 70's, not a retirement vehicle.

Companies latched onto the notion in order to shift the onus of retirement planning from the Company to the individual, knowing there would be a significant percentage of employees who would not participate saving them millions.

 

[1989]

Untrue.

UPS proposed a matching 401k to replace the defined pension.

The $10 trillion inventor

White: This is 1980 we’re talking about. And it quickly takes flight as a popular option. But at the time you certainly didn’t view it as a replacement for traditional pension plans at companies, the traditional way for people to have retirement security. It was kind of an add-on way to save money. Is that the way you viewed it?

Benna: When we talk about the history of the private retirement system, there’s a very distorted picture out there today. I’m not political. OK? During the last presidential election, Bernie Sanders and President Obama both stated, “We need to get back to what we used to have where everybody had a pension and it was wonderful and blah, blah, blah, and everybody had a pension.”

Well, a couple of facts; there was never more than 30 percent of the private-sector workforce that had a traditional defined-benefit pension. I started on that side of the business. I sold them. It was never above 30 percent. My first employer had a pension plan. To become a participant you had to wait until you were 30 if you were male and 35 if you were female. And you had to stay until you were aged 60 before you got any benefit. That was pretty standard. If you left before that, you got zippo.

 

[barnyard]

The 401k was never intended to replace the pension, but to only supplement it.

That may very well be and yet here we are, with a population that has not saved for retirement, does not work for a company that pays a pension or relies on a pension that is dying. Before I worked at UPS, every company that I had worked for offered 401k matches for retirement, but nothing else. No pension or any other retirement plan.

Contribution limits were put on 401k accounts to prevent companies from paying executives large amounts of tax deferred pay. The time is come that 401k rules need to catch up with the reality of how people are using them. Until then, any proposal by UPS to convert the pension to individual 401k accounts has to be dead in the water.

 

[chargedformula]

Bringing this one back to the top. It's been months since our contract was pushed through yet we STILL have zero information on which plan the company has adopted. For all I know they haven't adopted anything. Nobody knows or will tell us if we are under the preferred or default schedule. no information on how much is even being contributed to the fund. Try calling the hotline and all everyone gets is a different story. Everyone on that board of trustees needs to be voted out, especially after finding out about the DOL filed suit against the board for lavish parties in 2016.

 

[bowhnterdon]

I remember Mechanics and PE guys retiring in 2010,11 and 12. The amount they were receiving was incredible, almost what they were making at the time of retirement. Times were good then, but most new there was no way it could gone on like that for long...

 

[Mugarolla]

I remember Mechanics and PE guys retiring in 2010,11 and 12. The amount they were receiving was incredible, almost what they were making at the time of retirement. Times were good then, but most new there was no way it could gone on like that for long...

More than what they were making while working, around $9000/mo back in 2010.

They have since lowered it, since the fund wasn't as funded as in 2010.

A mechanic retired last year at $7800/mo.

Now, it's down the toilet, but not solely due to bad investment returns.

 

[El Correcto]

That is one reason. Another is that the math never works. At some point there will be more people drawing from it than contributing to it and the slow death begins. UPS will cry to the courts that it cannot afford to prop up a pension anymore and will file bankruptcy to get out from under the obligation. The courts allowed the airlines to do it and will allow UPS to do it.

If it’s same airline my mom’s friend worked at, that lady got hella paid to just walk away and retire. I’d be down for UPS doing that.

 

[rod]

I realize it's a multi employer plan.

What im trying to ask if it is oy one pension fund that covers everyone across the United States or does different areas have a separate plan?

yes

 

[KoennenTiger]

The $10 trillion inventor

White: This is 1980 we’re talking about. And it quickly takes flight as a popular option. But at the time you certainly didn’t view it as a replacement for traditional pension plans at companies, the traditional way for people to have retirement security. It was kind of an add-on way to save money. Is that the way you viewed it?

Benna: When we talk about the history of the private retirement system, there’s a very distorted picture out there today. I’m not political. OK? During the last presidential election, Bernie Sanders and President Obama both stated, “We need to get back to what we used to have where everybody had a pension and it was wonderful and blah, blah, blah, and everybody had a pension.”

Well, a couple of facts; there was never more than 30 percent of the private-sector workforce that had a traditional defined-benefit pension. I started on that side of the business. I sold them. It was never above 30 percent. My first employer had a pension plan. To become a participant you had to wait until you were 30 if you were male and 35 if you were female. And you had to stay until you were aged 60 before you got any benefit. That was pretty standard. If you left before that, you got zippo.

My father and my father in law both have pensions and social security. Of course both companies they worked for are just shells of their former selves. Unfortunately I find that I can't fully plan for the future. Will I have a pension? Will my 401k be worth anything when the asset bubble pops? Will hyper inflation hit us? Inflation has been pretty bad just in my lifetime.

When I was 19 I had a fast food job that paid $11 an hour, gave me sick days, vacation, and health insurance. I was buying food for my family with my pay. A pound of quality ground beef was 99 cents, a gallon of milk was 99 cents, a dozen quality donuts was 99 cents, and a pound of coffee beans was 99 cents. I remember this. And I'm only forty years old now.

Today all that is five dollars or more except the milk which is only three fifty. That's A LOT of inflation. That somehow everyone pretends not real.

I bought my first car that year brand new for $5000. It was an economy car. How much is that car now? A garbage Hyundai accent?

Meanwhile that same fast food job pays exactly the same per hour, only now with zero benefits.

This is the capitalist economy. Where everything only gets worse but it will trickle down when our capalist overlords decide to take a piss on our faces.

Now we have a HUGE asset bubble. It isn't just housing but the stock market as well. Trumps plan? Keep that bubble growing. It can't grow forever as the growth is all based on debt.

When the asset bubble pops what will a 401k be worth? When will this happen? I don't know.

But you know I've got a whole bunch of kids I love and who love me. Who my wife home schools and who we teach good values too.

I have my 401k and my pension and Lord be willing I'll be able to hand my kids a great boon to start their families. Lord not be willing I have my kids who I love and who love me.

 

[rod]

Today all that is five dollars or more except the milk which is only three fifty.
.

$1 26 to $1.69 at Aldi's for a gallon. Milk at a big chian grocery store is one of their biggest rip offs.

 

[Maple Grove MN Driver]

Anyone paying over 2 dollars a gallon for milk is doing it wrong

 

[SmithBarney]

$1 26 to $1.69 at Aldi's for a gallon. Milk at a big chian grocery store is one of their biggest rip offs.

Aldi milk is crap.

Our local Food Lion, $1.25/gal 2 miles further at the next Food Lion $3.50/gal so strange.

 

[rod]

Aldi milk is crap.

Our local Food Lion, $1.25/gal 2 miles further at the next Food Lion $3.50/gal so strange.

milk is milk

 

[Mack37]

I work with a retired Chicago area civil servant drawing 50% of his salary for the rest of his life. He’s 45.

That’s a problem.