I am very concerned...
- Thread starter Integrity
- Start date
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
They will spend $800 to "modify" a vehicle with a 2 pt seatbelt by replacing that belt.....with an identical belt that has a sensor in it.
In other words....UPS doesnt give a *****e whether or not the belt actually saves your life as long as they can fire you for not wearing it.
The math is simple. A driver whose brains get pulverized by the windshield will die and he can be replaced by a new hire who will do the same job for $10 an hour less. Factor in the decrease in the new drivers accrued vacation weeks, and we are talking about a savings of almost $25K per year for the company if they can kill off a full-scale driver.
tieguy
Banned
so you're saying ups deliberately murders the senior higher cost driver with the two point seat belt?
for some reason not one single teamster found fault with your post here.
still looking will I ever find one?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Tie, you just found one.
Sober, do you really think the bean counters at UPS calculated all of the costs which you just presented and arrived at the same conclusion? Call me naive but I would most certainly hope that there is no truth in your theory.
Sober, do you really think the bean counters at UPS calculated all of the costs which you just presented and arrived at the same conclusion? Call me naive but I would most certainly hope that there is no truth in your theory.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Following the methods will indeed increase our chances of avoiding an accident; however, I have yet to be taught a method that will prevent all accidents.
705red
Browncafe Steward
Can you show me the method that helps to deal with fatigue? Maybe you can puch paper across your desk for 60 hours a week, but not only do we drive we do physical work which tires us out.
Please dont hurt yourself moving your paper weight across the desk.
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
Last Thursday night/ Friday morning, in Kansas City, in an industrial area, a car approaching a UPS tractor trailer veered directly into the tractors path, hitting it head on, both vehicles going about 35 mph. The street offered no escape to the right, so the tractor locked up his brakes, and was hit square head on. I'm just wondering which of the methods would have avoided this one.
As for a cost/benefits analysis of lap belts, driver's air bag, padded dash, I would be greatly surprised if the company had not done an analysis comparing the costs to the liability for the deaths or injuries that would be likely to occur if such options were not fitted on our package cars. I mean, someone in the company writes the specifications for new package cars.
As for a cost/benefits analysis of lap belts, driver's air bag, padded dash, I would be greatly surprised if the company had not done an analysis comparing the costs to the liability for the deaths or injuries that would be likely to occur if such options were not fitted on our package cars. I mean, someone in the company writes the specifications for new package cars.
dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
Red is right. There is no way UPS can factor in the physical and mental stress of doing the job that we do. There are way to many factors involved. Not only do we have to deal with work related issues we have to deal with other issues outside of work that also affect performance. You might be having a bad day because of an argument you had with your wife. It is not going to kill you when you make a mistake and hit the send key on an email that was meant to be sent to your wife and instead you sent it to your co-worker. It is not that easy for us. We cannot, under any circumstances, accidentally make a left turn in front of oncoming traffic.
Upstate is also right. There is no FOOL proof way of avoiding an accident. There is NO 100% method that will protect us from every accident.
Upstate is also right. There is no FOOL proof way of avoiding an accident. There is NO 100% method that will protect us from every accident.
RoyalFlush
One of Them
UPS did not design or build the package car. If the seat and/or seat belt is substandard the manufacturer is responsible/liable. If UPS redesigns or modifies the seat and/or seat belt they would become responsible. Acknowledging the seat and/or seat belt is inadequate would also subject UPS to liability.
The same theory would apply to you own vehicle. If the brakes fail due to a design flaw, the manufacture is liable. If you take it upon yourself to retrofit or modify the brake system and it fails you have taken away the manufacturers responsibility.
Can you quantify the potential safety improvement of a 3 point over a 2 point system in a UPS vehicle? It seems to me that there are very few injuries that can be attributed to the use of a two point seat belt. Serious injury is often the result of wearing no seat belt, hence the focus on seat belt use and tracking with telematics.
Integrity
Binge Poster
BigBrownWeb,
Thank you again for your contribution. I have replied in the text of the qoute.
Sincerely,
I
Thank you again for your contribution. I have replied in the text of the qoute.
Sincerely,
I
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
The package cars were built to UPS's specifications. They met the bare minimum DOT safety requirements that were in force at the time.
3 point seat belts were optional equipment in package-car sized vehicles until 1995. After that, they became required equipment.
UPS made a business decision that the life of the driver was not worth the $50 or so it would have cost to install this option.
UPS continued to order its package cars with lap belts right up until the very last day that it was legal to do so.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
I am 6 feet tall.
If I sit in a P-5, P-8, or an older GMC P-10 with the lap belt buckled...I can lean forward and rest my forehead on the windshield while my jaw touches the steering wheel.
In the event of a head-on collision, the lap belt will do nothing to keep me alive. My head will be driven thru the windshield and my jaw will strike the steering wheel and be driven thru the back of my neck. Or, in a rollover accident, my head and upper body will flail around violently like a rag doll and strike the bulkhead and side door. What is left of my body will still remain in the car, but I will be dead. All so the company could save $50 on a 3 pt belt.
browned out
Well-Known Member
I miss my ole 1984 truck with drum brakes all around, no power steering, no headrest, no shoulder belt, high step, etc.
I have a large Bosch engineering test track and facility on my route. More than few times; engineers from all over the world were amazed at my truck. They could not believe that it was still allowed to be on the road. For driver safety and the safety of the public.
Big Brown Safety is our number one concern. The safety of our profits at all cost. Beautiful
I have a large Bosch engineering test track and facility on my route. More than few times; engineers from all over the world were amazed at my truck. They could not believe that it was still allowed to be on the road. For driver safety and the safety of the public.
Big Brown Safety is our number one concern. The safety of our profits at all cost. Beautiful
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
OK tie, I have reread my post and you are correct. I chose my words poorly and I will retract my statement.
It was a mistake for me to use the words "kill off a full-scale driver". This implies an intent which obviously isnt there.
A better way for me to have gotten my point across would have been to say "allow the full-scale driver to die in a head-on collision".
I do not believe that the company would actively seek to "kill off" a driver and it was a mistake for me to put it in that way. I apologize.
The fact of the matter though...is that the life, health and safety of the driver was never a factor in the decision-making process when the older vehicles were designed and ordered.
You know what? I am OK with that. It is what it is. I knew what the trucks were like when I accepted the job, and I am at peace with the fact that the company doesnt care about the safety of its people.
What I cannot deal with though...is the phony "culture of safety" that this same company continues trying to cram down our throats, with its blizzard of acronyms and commentaries and buzzwords and empty rhetoric and phony, do-nothing safety committees.
All I ask for is honesty. You dont give a rats ass about the safety of your people, and the equipment you continue to dispatch them in is proof of that fact. So quit trying to pretend that you care when its obvious by your actions that you dont.
Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. UPS did design the cars. The manufacturers didn't just come up with the ideas of what UPS should have on their package cars. Grumman-Olson, for example, is a manufacturer of step vans for commercial use. They make step vans that have features for various commercial applications. They are a truck body company. They make step vans according to the customer's specifications, tailored to fit various industrial applications. We write the specifications, and then, Grumman-Olson, for example, submits a bid for a certain number of vehicles, manufactured to meet the bid specifications. The only cars we didn't design were the old Ford Econoline bubbletop vans. Ford made the van, and we retrofited the shelves. They didn't have a bulkhead door. They did, however, have a three point belt. I drove the bubbletops for 14 years, and the last one in our district, I drove through Christmas of 1994 until it was crushed.
These cars are built to a specific UPS spec. They start as generic chassis and body shell but that is where the similarities end. Yes the Econoline had 3 point belt. It was also built on the basic Econoline body and certified for public use. If it was built from a Ford stripped chassis it possibly would not have been required to have the three point belt. Sprinters were also built from an off the hook MB chassis and body, which explains why these had the equipment they had, unfortunately they were junk from day 1.
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Dustyroads
Well-Known Member
The only sprinters that were junk were ones that were poorly maintained. I drove them over 400,000 miles, I have some familiarity with them. The first P47 I had ran over 350,000 miles and during the last 150,000 it never had a road call and was never out of the line up but one day when a Saturday driver broke off a windshield wiper arm. If you don't maintain a vehicle and drive it 250 miles a day on the gravel, don't be surprised if it shows some wear. They were the safest package cars UPS ever owned.
Coldworld
60 months and counting
Sorry to bring up an old thread but I just had 2 things, does Integrity still post on here or is he on holiday for a while, thought he or she was an interesting person. On regards to the factoring in on metal and physical tiredness from the daily workload it has been mentioned from p-man that the allowances DO factor in a driver getting tired throught the day..Im not sure I believe that but if p-man says it, it probably is considered somewhere in the numbers, but that would be very interesting to figure out how the hell they would factor something like that in.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I am sorry to inform you but Brown Cafe no longer has Integrity.
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