i love my no union job at Fed_ex

[DOWNTRODDEN IN TEXAS]

I saw something about 20 mile stems....my new route has a 50 mile stem to the first area...and it's FO that's due by 0830. I service 3-5 COUNTIES and have been averaging 250 miles a day! I LOVE IT! This was my gift for hurting my shoulder and being out on workers comp for 6 1/2 weeks!

 

[SmithBarney]

who can tell me 'how much differences between FDX and UPS ???"

3 years at UPS will get you topped out
3 years at FedEx and I make exactly 6 cents more than someone hired today for the same position. (6.8 out of 7.0 review scores) to be fair if I had perfect reviews I would make 9 cents more than someone hired today.

 

[Fedex Driver]

3 years at UPS will get you topped out
3 years at FedEx and I make exactly 6 cents more than someone hired today for the same position. (6.8 out of 7.0 review scores) to be fair if I had perfect reviews I would make 9 cents more than someone hired today.

I remember when i was hired in 99.New hires were starting at like 15 cents more than i was making.

 

[MrFedEx]

Very misleading question. There may be nothing to be gained but there could potentially be a lot to lose. I'm not saying there is or is not but you are only painting half the picture and doing it in such a way so as to misdirect people. You claim that you want FedEx drivers to make an INFORMED decision. How can they do that when you are not fully informing them? Be honest with them and show them the cons as well as the pros. Then they truly can make an informed decision.

His point was that management is practicing total intimidation tactics. How the hell can anyone get anything but the FedEx side of the argument when your job is being threatened for reading union materials? I hope they were INFORMED that FedEx Gestapo tactics are a good indication that management only wants drivers hearing one side of the story. Tell Maury he's going to get sued, OK? Union-busting is supposed to be illegal, or does FedEx have an exemption for that too? This is where the Teamsters need to grow a set and press for legal action.

 

[MrFedEx]

3 years at UPS will get you topped out
3 years at FedEx and I make exactly 6 cents more than someone hired today for the same position. (6.8 out of 7.0 review scores) to be fair if I had perfect reviews I would make 9 cents more than someone hired today.

That's because FedEx SUCKS, and is a union-busting scam that need to be hauled into court ASAP.

 

[quadro]

I remember when i was hired in 99.New hires were starting at like 15 cents more than i was making.

Are you saying that you were hired at some point in '99 and making $xx/hour and then later in '99 other people were hired and were making $xx + $0.15/hour???

 

[MrFedEx]

Are you saying that you were hired at some point in '99 and making $xx/hour and then later in '99 other people were hired and were making $xx + $0.15/hour???

This isn't uncommon, and it's also happened to managers. When FedEx finally saw the light and realized that their lower level managers were terribly underpaid, they didn't bother raising the pay of the existing managers, so new ones actually made more than those who had been managers for several years. Really smart, and a tremendous way to tell your employees how "valued" they are.

 

[quadro]

This isn't uncommon, and it's also happened to managers. When FedEx finally saw the light and realized that their lower level managers were terribly underpaid, they didn't bother raising the pay of the existing managers, so new ones actually made more than those who had been managers for several years. Really smart, and a tremendous way to tell your employees how "valued" they are.

It can't happen exactly that way as it's impossible to make less than the minimum. If you are hired at say $12.00/hr and then 6 months later the minimum is moved up to $12.15, someone hired that day will start at $12.15 but the person at $12 would be moved up to $12.15 on the same day the minimum is moved up. What can and does happen for both hourly and salaried employees is something that starts this way. The minimum wage keeps moving up and you keep getting moved up with it if your first raise isn't before the minimum moves up. If you've already had a raise before the minimum moves up, then the minimum just got closer to where your pay is. Both scenarios suck.

The problem is how do you fix it? Do you just give across the board raises without regard to performance? Many companies, including FedEx, have moved away from that model many years ago. If you don't raise the minimums then you risk not being competitive in the marketplace. If you raise the minimums and everyone along with it, it just becomes an across the board raise which is very expensive.

If you have a union contract with fixed raises, then the new employees don't have this issue but then everyone within certain time frames make the same regardless of performance.

Both have their pros and cons and certainly pay is one of, if not the largest issue for employees right now.

But just to be clear, existing employees do not make less than a new hire for the same job in the same market. They might make the same if they are also relatively new (i.e less than 12 months) but not less.

 

[vantexan]

The problem is how do you fix it? Do you just give across the board raises without regard to performance? Many companies, including FedEx, have moved away from that model many years ago.

Yeah, that's right, FedEx gives raises based on performance.

 

[quadro]

Yeah, that's right, FedEx gives raises based on performance.

Well then why don't you explain to our audience how FedEx gives raises?

 

[vantexan]

Well then why don't you explain to our audience how FedEx gives raises?

I'm not privy to the actual formula, but I think it must involve Rune stones or examining chicken entrails. Seriously, one can work one's self into the ground and come review time any mistakes made will be greatly magnified, reducing the review score, and thus the raise, as much as possible. This applies to mid-range employees, who's larger raises are based on their review. If topped out employees' raises are based on productivity, then why only 3% as long as they get a 5 on the review? Pretty difficult to get less than a 5, so again, no matter that a dedicated topped out employee works his butt off, he'll only get 3%. Definitely not based on productivity. To say that raises today are based on merit is disingenuous. If we are even given a raise. By the way, $419 million profit last quarter, wonder if we'll get a full raise next year?

 

[quadro]

I'm not privy to the actual formula, but I think it must involve Rune stones or examining chicken entrails. Seriously, one can work one's self into the ground and come review time any mistakes made will be greatly magnified, reducing the review score, and thus the raise, as much as possible. This applies to mid-range employees, who's larger raises are based on their review. If topped out employees' raises are based on productivity, then why only 3% as long as they get a 5 on the review? Pretty difficult to get less than a 5, so again, no matter that a dedicated topped out employee works his butt off, he'll only get 3%. Definitely not based on productivity. To say that raises today are based on merit is disingenuous. If we are even given a raise. By the way, $419 million profit last quarter, wonder if we'll get a full raise next year?

Actually you are privvy to the formula if you choose to inform yourself as it's not a secret. As you have pointed out, in-range employees get a raise based on their performance review so their performance determines their raise. See how that ties together so nicely. Employees who are topped out are not promised or guaranteed any type of raise. If there is a range increase, then those topped out employees are generally moved to the new top of range.

Also, I never said raises were based on productivity, I said they are based on performance. In fact, stops per hour isn't even on the review. I know you would like to discredit me but you need to pay a little more attention and not be so blinded by whatever hatred you have.

Today, probably more than ever in the past, the courier review is less subjective and more objective. In the past it really was too easy for a manager to manipulate the review but now a lot of the review is strictly based on your performance by using things like attendance, punctuality, POD compliance, VAN scans, etc. If you don't score well on this review, then you don't really have anyone to blame but yourself.

Personally, I think there should be some type of payout for topped out employees based on performance, because, as you also pointed out, there's no incentive for those employees to go above and beyond.

One quarter, good or bad, won't determine pay issues for next year.

 

[MrFedEx]

Actually you are privvy to the formula if you choose to inform yourself as it's not a secret. As you have pointed out, in-range employees get a raise based on their performance review so their performance determines their raise. See how that ties together so nicely. Employees who are topped out are not promised or guaranteed any type of raise. If there is a range increase, then those topped out employees are generally moved to the new top of range.

Also, I never said raises were based on productivity, I said they are based on performance. In fact, stops per hour isn't even on the review. I know you would like to discredit me but you need to pay a little more attention and not be so blinded by whatever hatred you have.

Today, probably more than ever in the past, the courier review is less subjective and more objective. In the past it really was too easy for a manager to manipulate the review but now a lot of the review is strictly based on your performance by using things like attendance, punctuality, POD compliance, VAN scans, etc. If you don't score well on this review, then you don't really have anyone to blame but yourself.

Personally, I think there should be some type of payout for topped out employees based on performance, because, as you also pointed out, there's no incentive for those employees to go above and beyond.

One quarter, good or bad, won't determine pay issues for next year.

Good job Maury..I mean, quadro. You may be right about the concept that courier new-hires can't make more than an existing courier now, but that hasn't always been the case. I notice that you didn't bother to address my comment regarding managers. I like vantexan's theory that FedEx determines raises by Rune Stones, which is plausible as any other. You see, FedEx is in the business of denying raises, kind of like insurance companies denying claims. The company is absolutely excellent at giving reasons why they can't give market-level raises or accelerate top-out times, and have a bazillion reasons why we're broke and Fred's grandma is sick and the dog ate his homework and on and on.

Why do you keep apologizing for a system that is designed to pay you (quadro) as little as possible, even though you claim to be a 6.8 courier? You're OK with your pension going away, OK with the crap raises, and OK with all of the other scams that FedEx pulls all the time with injuries, part-timers ad infinitum. One would think you'd have some self interest instead of being a complete lapdog for the company. Is there anything they do that upsets you or is your life at FedEx just a big bowl of cherries? You don't seem stupid, but why be Fred's doormat?

 

[quadro]

Good job Maury..I mean, quadro. You may be right about the concept that courier new-hires can't make more than an existing courier now, but that hasn't always been the case.

Yes, Jimmy, it has always been the case. At least in my 25+ years it has.

I notice that you didn't bother to address my comment regarding managers.

Which comment was that?

I like vantexan's theory that FedEx determines raises by Rune Stones, which is plausible as any other. You see, FedEx is in the business of denying raises, kind of like insurance companies denying claims. The company is absolutely excellent at giving reasons why they can't give market-level raises or accelerate top-out times, and have a bazillion reasons why we're broke and Fred's grandma is sick and the dog ate his homework and on and on.

You can have whatever theory you want. The truth however is easy to find if you just look up the merit increase tables or have a manager show them to you if you don't know how to find them. Just to be clear I'm referring to in-range raises, not top of range increases. "In the business of denying raises", really? I'm sure if I look around here hard enough I can find where people, possibly even you, have stated that managers are too afraid to hold people accountable and end up giving them a better review than they deserve. Given that the review determines the raise, this would equate to giving away the farm, not denying raises.

Why do you keep apologizing for a system that is designed to pay you (quadro) as little as possible, even though you claim to be a 6.8 courier? You're OK with your pension going away, OK with the crap raises, and OK with all of the other scams that FedEx pulls all the time with injuries, part-timers ad infinitum. One would think you'd have some self interest instead of being a complete lapdog for the company. Is there anything they do that upsets you or is your life at FedEx just a big bowl of cherries? You don't seem stupid, but why be Fred's doormat?

Where did I apologize? Just because I try to dispel myths and untruths doesn't mean I agree with the truth. As for the part-time thing you keep bringing up, given that FedEx, unlike UPS, pays part-time employees the same as full-time and that they get the same benefits (with the exception of short term disability), hiring 1 full-timer is probably cheaper in the long run than hiring 2 part-timers because of the benefits cost. I used to do the station schedule many moons ago and I can tell you that you do need to have the right mix of full and part time employees to put together an efficient schedule that doesn't have (force) part-timers to work too many hours but provides for enough full time hours. At my current station, we really haven't done much hiring over the last couple of years because of the volume drop but some people have resigned or transferred out. It's left us with an imbalance and in all likelihood when we do hire, it will be some part-timers with a full-timer or two thrown in somewhere even if the next person to leave is a full-timer. We just don't have the work to replace a full-timer with a full-timer. It varies from station to station obviously but if analyzed correctly, it does make sense.

The biggest concern I have, which doesn't directly affect me as I'm topped out, is pay raises. Not top out times because it doesn't really matter if you ever top out as long as you get a decent raise each year. I would just like to see raises for in-range employees go up a few percentage points.

As for everything else, based on what FedEx has done for me over the last 25+ years, I don't really have too many complaints.

 

[vantexan]

Yes, Jimmy, it has always been the case. At least in my 25+ years it has.

Which comment was that?

You can have whatever theory you want. The truth however is easy to find if you just look up the merit increase tables or have a manager show them to you if you don't know how to find them. Just to be clear I'm referring to in-range raises, not top of range increases. "In the business of denying raises", really? I'm sure if I look around here hard enough I can find where people, possibly even you, have stated that managers are too afraid to hold people accountable and end up giving them a better review than they deserve. Given that the review determines the raise, this would equate to giving away the farm, not denying raises.


Where did I apologize? Just because I try to dispel myths and untruths doesn't mean I agree with the truth. As for the part-time thing you keep bringing up, given that FedEx, unlike UPS, pays part-time employees the same as full-time and that they get the same benefits (with the exception of short term disability), hiring 1 full-timer is probably cheaper in the long run than hiring 2 part-timers because of the benefits cost. I used to do the station schedule many moons ago and I can tell you that you do need to have the right mix of full and part time employees to put together an efficient schedule that doesn't have (force) part-timers to work too many hours but provides for enough full time hours. At my current station, we really haven't done much hiring over the last couple of years because of the volume drop but some people have resigned or transferred out. It's left us with an imbalance and in all likelihood when we do hire, it will be some part-timers with a full-timer or two thrown in somewhere even if the next person to leave is a full-timer. We just don't have the work to replace a full-timer with a full-timer. It varies from station to station obviously but if analyzed correctly, it does make sense.

The biggest concern I have, which doesn't directly affect me as I'm topped out, is pay raises. Not top out times because it doesn't really matter if you ever top out as long as you get a decent raise each year. I would just like to see raises for in-range employees go up a few percentage points.

As for everything else, based on what FedEx has done for me over the last 25+ years, I don't really have too many complaints.

You are trying to dispel myths and untruths? Topped out employees ARE guaranteed a 3% raise as long as as they get a 5 or better on their review. Of course guaranteed is a loose term as in they may choose to not give a raise this year or give a 2% raise, etc, etc. Since they came out with the current pay scheme name one year that they didn't give the 3% to topped out employees before 2009? I'm basing that on the terms they spelled out in print, not on some myth or misunderstanding.

Nice try on the hatred bit. Can't beat them so marginalize them by claiming hatred. After everything I've seen here written by you I can only conclude that you are a mgr. You say the pay is unfair but shoot down any ideas on increasing pay. Try to make us think you are on our side while working against us. If you are a courier the only explanation I can find for your posts is that you are topped out and are worried a union will ruin your future. If that's so pretty sorry on your part that you'd throw us under the bus to keep your little bit. We absolutely have no alternative but to vote for a union because FedEx has done nothing but fight the union, giving us absolutely no indication that they are willing to do anything substantial to improve pay. They expect us to just exist for their benefit and you seem fine with this because you got yours. Please leave the personal business out like I shouldn't have quit. This affects tens of thousands of people. I was perfectly willing and still am to work towards reaching top pay based on what I was told. I was even willing to put up with crap pay forever as long as I got a decent pension. Well I'm not getting either now, and you have the gall to say that the company's profit shouldn't be considered for future pay raises. They've got the money you company plant, they should pay us better.

 

[bbsam]

Is there anybody that doesn't think they should be paid better?

 

[fxdwg]

UPS Earnings drove up FDX stock price

 

[bbsam]

UPS Earnings drove up FDX stock price

What makes you think that?

 

[vantexan]

Actually you are privvy to the formula if you choose to inform yourself as it's not a secret. As you have pointed out, in-range employees get a raise based on their performance review so their performance determines their raise. See how that ties together so nicely. Employees who are topped out are not promised or guaranteed any type of raise. If there is a range increase, then those topped out employees are generally moved to the new top of range.

Also, I never said raises were based on productivity, I said they are based on performance. In fact, stops per hour isn't even on the review. I know you would like to discredit me but you need to pay a little more attention and not be so blinded by whatever hatred you have.

Today, probably more than ever in the past, the courier review is less subjective and more objective. In the past it really was too easy for a manager to manipulate the review but now a lot of the review is strictly based on your performance by using things like attendance, punctuality, POD compliance, VAN scans, etc. If you don't score well on this review, then you don't really have anyone to blame but yourself.

Personally, I think there should be some type of payout for topped out employees based on performance, because, as you also pointed out, there's no incentive for those employees to go above and beyond.

One quarter, good or bad, won't determine pay issues for next year.

I'll give you the "performance" part, got side tracked with productivity. But I'll wait and see on how the review is scored. I've clocked in late once I believe since the last review, had food poisoning in June, out a day. I'm usually at 100% on vans, rarely have a late. Rarely miss a POD. And I'm betting I won't do better than a 6.4. But you are missing the point. The review is designed to punish you for the mistakes made. Or if you get sick. Or if you get injured. Anything to lower the score. That they don't take into account how hard you work every day, that your rt may be considerably heavier than others, that you volunteer to do extra when asked(and by that I mean a range of things) says to me that they don't reward hard workers. They aren't interested in rewarding hard workers, they only want to hold pay down. You say you are pretty happy with what they've done for you in 25+ years. Great for you. But when I look at what they've done for me in the last 11.5 years I can't say I'm happy with them. Simply put, you got a better deal than I and others are getting. And yet you come across as if we're just malcontents who don't really have anything legitimate to complain about. If you've got your 25+ years in you probably have a decent pension coming to you, probably have decent savings. Why then are you fighting us so hard on just wanting the same? We aren't going to get it unless we fight for it, or do you believe good ol' FedEx will come around eventually? I'd give anything if my mgr announced tomorrow that FedEx will shortly come out with a better pay system, hang in there, they are listening to your concerns. But for me personally it'll just be more of the same. Worked so hard for so long, constantly ripped off by bad mgrs(not my angry fantasy, many of them demoted or fired), put up with so much to get that pension, and now facing a poor retirement and too damn old to do much about it. Glad you got yours, forgive me if I don't love the company like you do.

 

[quadro]

You are trying to dispel myths and untruths? Topped out employees ARE guaranteed a 3% raise as long as as they get a 5 or better on their review. Of course guaranteed is a loose term as in they may choose to not give a raise this year or give a 2% raise, etc, etc. Since they came out with the current pay scheme name one year that they didn't give the 3% to topped out employees before 2009? I'm basing that on the terms they spelled out in print, not on some myth or misunderstanding.

Do you read what you write before posting it? How can you say that something is guaranteed and then in the next sentence imply that it's not guaranteed? And good luck finding where it says that topped out employees are guaranteed any raise, let alone a 3% one.

Nice try on the hatred bit. Can't beat them so marginalize them by claiming hatred. After everything I've seen here written by you I can only conclude that you are a mgr.

On a number of occasions including this post, you tell me I'm wrong when in fact, you are the one that is wrong. I can only conclude that you aren't interested in the truth and would rather attack what I say, hence the blind hatred.

You say the pay is unfair but shoot down any ideas on increasing pay. Try to make us think you are on our side while working against us. If you are a courier the only explanation I can find for your posts is that you are topped out and are worried a union will ruin your future. If that's so pretty sorry on your part that you'd throw us under the bus to keep your little bit.

I'm not shooting down any ideas. As I've said, I would love to see the in-range raises go up a few percentage points. Yes I'm topped out and no, I'm not so worried about my future with a union as I am some very good people who maybe just aren't quite courier material and some who are at the bottom of the totem pole. I'm worried about how much harder I might have to work with a union but I can live with that. It's the possibility of job eliminations that concern me the most.

We absolutely have no alternative but to vote for a union because FedEx has done nothing but fight the union, giving us absolutely no indication that they are willing to do anything substantial to improve pay. They expect us to just exist for their benefit and you seem fine with this because you got yours. Please leave the personal business out like I shouldn't have quit. This affects tens of thousands of people. I was perfectly willing and still am to work towards reaching top pay based on what I was told. I was even willing to put up with crap pay forever as long as I got a decent pension. Well I'm not getting either now, and you have the gall to say that the company's profit shouldn't be considered for future pay raises. They've got the money you company plant, they should pay us better.

That's fine if you want to vote for a union. I absolutely respect everyone's right to choose what's best for them. All I'm saying is make sure you have accurate facts when making that decision. Also, let me ask you, if you get a paycheck that is higher than your average, say due to some extra OT worked last week, do you go and spend every extra penny you made that week or do you save some of it in case a future paycheck is a little lower than average? Perhaps you do spend every penny but many people will at least try to save some. It's no different for any business. Just because a profit is made in one quarter, you don't go out and spend every extra penny. It's just not wise and is very fiscally irresponsible.

I'll give you the "performance" part, got side tracked with productivity. But I'll wait and see on how the review is scored. I've clocked in late once I believe since the last review, had food poisoning in June, out a day. I'm usually at 100% on vans, rarely have a late. Rarely miss a POD. And I'm betting I won't do better than a 6.4.

I guess you'll have to wait and see. One thing though, if you only missed 1 day, make sure that your manager gives you any bonus points on attendance that you are entitled to.

But you are missing the point. The review is designed to punish you for the mistakes made. Or if you get sick. Or if you get injured. Anything to lower the score. That they don't take into account how hard you work every day, that your rt may be considerably heavier than others, that you volunteer to do extra when asked(and by that I mean a range of things) says to me that they don't reward hard workers. They aren't interested in rewarding hard workers, they only want to hold pay down.

Unfortunately, I think it is you who is missing the point. A review, by definition, reviews your performance so of course it punishes you if you make mistakes or are absent. What else would you have a review do? If you aren't absent and don't make mistakes, you get a higher score. That's how it's supposed to work.

You say you are pretty happy with what they've done for you in 25+ years. Great for you. But when I look at what they've done for me in the last 11.5 years I can't say I'm happy with them. Simply put, you got a better deal than I and others are getting. And yet you come across as if we're just malcontents who don't really have anything legitimate to complain about. If you've got your 25+ years in you probably have a decent pension coming to you, probably have decent savings. Why then are you fighting us so hard on just wanting the same? We aren't going to get it unless we fight for it, or do you believe good ol' FedEx will come around eventually? I'd give anything if my mgr announced tomorrow that FedEx will shortly come out with a better pay system, hang in there, they are listening to your concerns. But for me personally it'll just be more of the same. Worked so hard for so long, constantly ripped off by bad mgrs(not my angry fantasy, many of them demoted or fired), put up with so much to get that pension, and now facing a poor retirement and too damn old to do much about it. Glad you got yours, forgive me if I don't love the company like you do.

Look, all of us have our crosses to bear and our beds to lay in and some of us are in a better position than others. That's the way life works. We make decisions and then have to live with the consequences. I chose to stay with FedEx from the day I started and you didn't. My situation seems to have worked out better for me than yours has. I don't mean that in a bad way, it's just what it is. I don't begrudge you the opportunity to better yourself and I understand your need to fight for it. Do I think you should have exactly what I have when I've been here longer than you and have committed myself to FedEx? No, you shouldn't as you chose a different path. But I do think you deserve more. Whether FedEx steps up to your plate or a union has to try and do it for you is the big question.

The fact that you've allowed managers to take advantage of you speaks to your attention to detail. I had it happen to me once and that was the last time it was ever going to happen to me. I made sure I knew the rules etc and exactly how things work to make sure I don't ever get taken advantage of. That's all I'm trying to do here. Make sure people know the correct information and facts. Then they can make an informed decision. In the big scheme of things, it doesn't matter to me what decision you make, just be completely informed when you make that decision.