I want to live in I.E. world

[IWorkAsDirected]

soberups;

Actually, the elemental allowances UPS uses were developed in exactly - albeit going one step further - the same way as your dental components friends used...the difference being that, instead of just timing one manager with a stopwatch, UPS timed literally scores (hundreds!) of actual employees (drivers, in the driver standards instance) performing an elemental action (i.e. - opening the bulkhead door, securing the seat belt, etc., etc.) and amalgamated them when called for; the on-road time-study observer simply counts the INSTANCES of those elements, and the time allowance (which, in most cases, have not changed in decades, simply because the elemental motions involved haven't changed either) for each instance is multiplied by the number of instances to develop the "allowed" time. Need to keep in mind that, to do a driver "time study", an observer doesn't even need a stopwatch (time board, whatever); it's only there to compare the actual time taken to what the "allowed" time is.

That said, the "allowed" time of the day of the study, from my experience, is remarkably accurate; most knowledgeable observers can go back (or at least they used to be able to!) and point out exactly where and how the driver lost and/or gained "time" compared to "allowed". Granted, when developed allowances (stop, travel, etc) are combined with multiple drivers in a unit, they can vary a bit. And, of course, the developed allowances are based on an average knowledgeable/skilled driver under average (not ideal, but not whacked-out, either) conditions.

Anyway, the point I'm getting at is that the way your dentistry friends perform their time study would be way too unsophisticated to deal with the conditions of UPS's work environment...unless the company (and its employees) would be willing to bear the expenses (and discomfort) of having a time study observer bird-dogging every employee every day.

Unfortunately, time studies are only done in Outer Space now, or la la land or ie land or whatever, when is the last time an ie person went onroad punch to punch and noted, traffic control devices, speed limit signs, steps to the door, etc.?????

 

[dilligaf]

Considering the weird/nonsensical stuff I've been having added to my route lately; I'm surprised that I didn't get an add off that route yesterday----after all it's only a few inches away on a computer screen

I would have gladly given you an add-on. I certainly had enough to share.

 

[Just Numbers]

Might be the reason you dont use UPS because they crush your box is that you figured the 2 CF box could fit into a 1.25 CF space to save time and money.

So again, you play the blame game with what you really ought to look inward upon for the answer......

But then again, if you worked for the "other company" would you make what you make punching in numbers at UPS......?????

Its funny how you demand the best from others, while you settle for mediocre from yourself.

d

D,
You run a business...what's the bottom line that keeps you in business...it is profit generated by cost control, is it not?

 

[tourists24]

D,
You run a business...what's the bottom line that keeps you in business...it is profit generated by cost control, is it not?

there is such a thing as cutting costs so much that you hurt your product....

 

[JustTired]

D,
You run a business...what's the bottom line that keeps you in business...it is profit generated by cost control, is it not?

That would be one element. But you can't sacrifice service to gain it. Especially when you are a service company. You can't control cost in one area without looking to see what it is doing in other areas.

If you're trying to show cost control to gain favor with the "Wall Street" crowd.....You just winding up chasing your tail. Nothing you do will ever be good enough. You end up causing long-term damage trying to obtain what ultimately turns out to be short-term gain (if you're lucky).

There's nothing wrong with finding ways to cut costs. When doing so, you just have to "get the big picture". If a plan is not working, you have to "leave yourself an out".

Someone, somewhere has to evaluate the status of some of these so-called enhancements to service. If they are not working as planned, they have to have the "gonads" to make someone at the top aware of it. Nothing will get fixed until that happens. I can see potential in these "enhancements"......but until the implementation is corrected, they are just an anchor that keeps the once "tightest ship" from advancing.

 

[mattwtrs]

That would be one element. But you can't sacrifice service to gain it. Especially when you are a service company. You can't control cost in one area without looking to see what it is doing in other areas.

If you're trying to show cost control to gain favor with the "Wall Street" crowd.....You just winding up chasing your tail. Nothing you do will ever be good enough. You end up causing long-term damage trying to obtain what ultimately turns out to be short-term gain (if you're lucky).

There's nothing wrong with finding ways to cut costs. When doing so, you just have to "get the big picture". If a plan is not working, you have to "leave yourself an out".

Someone, somewhere has to evaluate the status of some of these so-called enhancements to service. If they are not working as planned, they have to have the "gonads" to make someone at the top aware of it. Nothing will get fixed until that happens. I can see potential in these "enhancements"......but until the implementation is corrected, they are just an anchor that keeps the once "tightest ship" from advancing.

I think you should be on the BOD or at least in charge of operations in Atlanta!

 

[BrownBlue]

I would love to have an IE job. Sit around using your magical weapons, and spells, fighting the beasts conjured up by the evil warlock-prince. Then going back to your castle with all the new treasure you got and sleep with a princess who would never look at you before you slew the Dragon of Diaddman's Valley, or the Troll brothers that lived in the deep dank Pas Forest, or the horde of orcs that came from the hills of Ni1. Yes it would be a truely magical world.

 

[dilligaf]

I would love to have an IE job. Sit around using your magical weapons, and spells, fighting the beasts conjured up by the evil warlock-prince. Then going back to your castle with all the new treasure you got and sleep with a princess who would never look at you before you slew the Dragon of Diaddman's Valley, or the Troll brothers that lived in the deep dank Pas Forest, or the horde of orcs that came from the hills of Ni1. Yes it would be a truely magical world.

Uh-oh, look what you have started Big. It's even carried over to this forum. LMAO

 

[JustTired]

I think you should be on the BOD or at least in charge of operations in Atlanta!

Thanks.....but, no thanks.

For several reasons....
1. I am, finally, happily retired.....as I'm sure you are too.
2. While I don't think I would be afraid of the responsibility, I don't think I could play the political games that are involved.
3. I have no ambition to make the kind of money they attract.
4. I'm not that smart....I just like to think I have a little common sense.

After 25 years (all as a delivery driver), I would still like to see this company become the one that I was proud to work for for most of those 25 years.

 

[TechGrrl]

Thanks.....but, no thanks.

For several reasons....
1. I am, finally, happily retired.....as I'm sure you are too.
2. While I don't think I would be afraid of the responsibility, I don't think I could play the political games that are involved.
3. I have no ambition to make the kind of money they attract.
4. I'm not that smart....I just like to think I have a little common sense.

After 25 years (all as a delivery driver), I would still like to see this company become the one that I was proud to work for for most of those 25 years.

Actually, I think that a couple of employee representatives on the Board would be a great idea. Some friends of mine wanted to start a write in campaign for me, but that's not how it works.

So, we all decided to vote "No" with our shares, if enough people do that, maybe the Board will wonder what's going on? Granted, even with A shares, if every employee and retiree voted "NO" it wouldn't balance out the Foundation shares, but it would get noticed. Tell all your friends.

 

[nv666]

UPS utilizes antiquated methods, I.E. being one of them. The computer and payroll systems are two other out dated system. I have NEVER seen so many payroll mistakes from one company. One size does not fit all when it comes to determing staffing. These folks are pretty much clueless and it's obvious the employees make things work even after some of the most rediculous staffing and scheduling changes decided by this I.E department are implemented. It's almost laughable what they come up with. This company is all about making money (to the tune of $8mm last qtr)...which they do at their employee's expense. They'll keep their antiquated systems as long as money is being made. I have never heard so many disgruntle employees from one company. It would be wise if UPS changed their bulldog mgmt style and started taking care of their employees. I think they'd see vast improvements in attitudes and after some time even more profit. It's unbelievable they cannot see what goes on at their own company. That tells me they better clean up the mgmt side of their staffing first.

 

[Catatonic]

UPS utilizes antiquated methods, I.E. being one of them. The computer and payroll systems are two other out dated system. I have NEVER seen so many payroll mistakes from one company. One size does not fit all when it comes to determing staffing. These folks are pretty much clueless and it's obvious the employees make things work even after some of the most rediculous staffing and scheduling changes decided by this I.E department are implemented. It's almost laughable what they come up with. This company is all about making money (to the tune of $8mm last qtr)...which they do at their employee's expense. They'll keep their antiquated systems as long as money is being made. I have never heard so many disgruntle employees from one company. It would be wise if UPS changed their bulldog mgmt style and started taking care of their employees. I think they'd see vast improvements in attitudes and after some time even more profit. It's unbelievable they cannot see what goes on at their own company. That tells me they better clean up the mgmt side of their staffing first.

And what is the payback on "hanged their bulldog mgmt style and started taking care of their employees."?

Did not seem have much payback in 1997. Just asking ... Food for thought.

 

[dannyboy]

D,
You run a business...what's the bottom line that keeps you in business...it is profit generated by cost control, is it not?

Cost control is a very important part of the business plan. But you have to be careful not to spend 10 bucks to save a quarter as well.

In my business, as in UPS's, I provide a service and a series of goods that the customer wants. There are a lot of people that sell similar service as I offer......at least it would appear so on the surface.

Take today for instance. The lady gave me the dimensions of the pond she wanted, and that she wanted it very low maintenance.

My bid was around 20 grand. She responded that she was thinking about 8.

Now, there will be landscapers, or even the grass cutting guy that will offer to put it in for that amount. And maybe for a year or so, she might like what she sees. But in the second year on, it will become a monster that is out of control until it gets to the point that it can not be fixed, but must be torn out and redone.

With me, the job gets dont right, first time, every time. Yes, I cost more than most, but they get better dependability, a pretty much perfect product, and consistent service that delivers what is promised.

Unlike so many others that grab the money and go out of business.

So while the bottom line is nice (bottom shopping)price wise, most customers are interested in value for the money. And that is where UPS fits the bill. Not the cheapest, but best value for the buck.

And that is the way I run my business as well.

Over the years, pretty much by hit and miss, I developed a computer program into which I enter the basics of the job. The program then figures out the projected costs associated with doing this job, and spits out the cost.

At one time, I wanted the job more than the customer, and cut the price to get it. Several times I ended up in the hole on the project, so I never deviate from what the program suggests the cost to be.

So those jobs I can not make a profit on, those I let others build, knowing that in the future, they will call me back to do it right.

So to give you the short version, dollar cost of an item is just one aspect of the true cost. Value gained is many times overlooked.

BTW, you strike me as someone that would internet shop for two days on an item to save 30 cents. You always shop price, not value. I find that I get better service, quality etc if I focus on value instead of just price.

And in the long run, that does save me money.

d

 

[Coldworld]

D,
You run a business...what's the bottom line that keeps you in business...it is profit generated by cost control, is it not?

yep, cost control..step over a dollar to grab a penny, there are thousands of examples of that happening on a daily basis. Im sure everyone here can think of something everyday that would fall under this category.

 

[Coldworld]

An allowance for an assembly line with few or no variables will always be far more accurate than an allowance for a UPS driving job where conditions change daily. It is absolutely understandable that not all UPS time studies are 100% correct.

What is not understandable...is UPS's total refusal to ever correct a study that is demonstrably and irrefutably flawed...even when the flaw is so extreme that it leads to chronic dispatch and service issues with the route.

The allowance is a square peg, the reality is a round hole, and the only tool that management has to solve the probem they have created is a hammer.

Everybody, just take a deep breath and repeat after me..."It's all factored in.....it's all factored in...it's all factored in"

 

[BrownBearGrl23]

What the tie fails to understand is that it isn't the folks in IE who are establishing time standards that has made UPS successful, as opposed to the folks running General Motors. What has made UPS successful is the boys (and girls) in brown, out there hustling, running their ass off every day, not because some guy at a computer terminal has set a standard, but because they want a life with their family, some time of their own after work.

I've done this for 30 years, on the same area. I've seen the standards change, I've seen managers play around with the routes to make the number work better. I've worked as hard as I can go, every day, for thirty years. I push it every day. There have been times I've been a hero and times I've been a zero when judged by the operation reports. Funny thing, I've worked the same pace, using the same methods every day. The single biggest factor that has affected my performance has been the quality of the vehicle which I've been assigned. No kidding. And, that factor cannot even be measured by the good folks in IE.

I'm not saying the department is poor at it's job. Nor am I saying that it is not highly respected by others in the industry doing the same job. But, I'm saying that tomorrow morning, if the company announced that they were going to eliminate the IE department completely and outsource it to two guys in Southeast Asia, our life in our centers would go on pretty much the same. And, we'd all go out there and bust our ass tomorrow and go home and enjoy our lives.

I just want to say you are absolutely right about the guys and gals in Brown making this company what it is today! I didn't realize to what extent until I spent my requisite day on the truck. It was a defining "kool-aid" moment in my career (sidebar... a loved one calls UPS a cult and makes reference to how much kool-aid I've had to drink over the years)... No amount of time studies or results from operations reports can accurately depict what all of you do for our company everyday. Not all IE people are unrealistic just as not all management thinks of you as drones to be toyed with for maximum optimization. The bottom line is that the numbers are there to set a standard (on a perfect day, with a perfect truck, and no crazy people wth cods, a driver can accomplish this many stops). If a management team is doing their job correctly, they are involved enough with you and your route to know what imperfections you faced on a given day. Without the numbers/standards, we wouldn't be the company thriving through yet another recession. On the other hand, without you folks in Brown, we wouldn't be.

Thanks again to all of you and please know there are people in planning that believe in you and appreciate your dedication!

 

[BrownBearGrl23]

yep, cost control..step over a dollar to grab a penny, there are thousands of examples of that happening on a daily basis. Im sure everyone here can think of something everyday that would fall under this category.

I tried to give money back for Q4 and was told I had to explain why... guess I should have just run that far under plan

 

[brownmonster]

I just want to say you are absolutely right about the guys and gals in Brown making this company what it is today! I didn't realize to what extent until I spent my requisite day on the truck. It was a defining "kool-aid" moment in my career (sidebar... a loved one calls UPS a cult and makes reference to how much kool-aid I've had to drink over the years)... No amount of time studies or results from operations reports can accurately depict what all of you do for our company everyday. Not all IE people are unrealistic just as not all management thinks of you as drones to be toyed with for maximum optimization. The bottom line is that the numbers are there to set a standard (on a perfect day, with a perfect truck, and no crazy people wth cods, a driver can accomplish this many stops). If a management team is doing their job correctly, they are involved enough with you and your route to know what imperfections you faced on a given day. Without the numbers/standards, we wouldn't be the company thriving through yet another recession. On the other hand, without you folks in Brown, we wouldn't be.

Thanks again to all of you and please know there are people in planning that believe in you and appreciate your dedication!

Thank You/You're welcome

 

[Foamer Pyle]

Can I get an Amen, Brother!

 

[ToolonginBrown]

I.E. is a joke! by their numbers I can run 85 miles of interstate in 40 minutes. They make the decisions to save money by cutting areas and pay five drivers 2 hours of overtime, then the next week pay it in triple time after we file grivences. UPS I.E. the best in the business all right..