Is UPS quitting the railroads?

[Johney]

Just got off the phone was a FNN rep. He said that the hubs he goes to have been crawling with independents this week and that the union gave the company 30 days to train drivers for new runs.

They are training feeder guys in our building and in surrounding buildings in fear of a mass retirements when the contract finally gets settled.

 

[bluebiker]

UPS has purchased a lot of containers in past few years to double stack them on to the rail cars, so I don't see them leaving the rails anytime soon. As far as FedEx I am at the rail 10 to 15 times a week in Worcester MA, and I never see them!!

We pick up a lot of rails on Sundays in North Jersey all containers from California, where they don't know what a load bar is.
I've seen FedEx ground trailers at the rail yard, it seems to be mainly on weekends, not so much during the week.

After UPS made the investment in the 53' containers, I can't see them giving up on using the trains. The guy at the conference table in Atlanta is still getting pats on the back for the "great idea".

 

[Covemastah]

We pick up a lot of rails on Sundays in North Jersey all containers from California, where they don't know what a load bar is.
I've seen FedEx ground trailers at the rail yard, it seems to be mainly on weekends, not so much during the week.

After UPS made the investment in the 53' containers, I can't see them giving up on using the trains. The guy at the conference table in Atlanta is still getting pats on the back for the "great idea".

and a bonus !!!

 

[Dracula]

Talk, or wait until Cachsux weighs in here, but I'm in a big rail center (Not as big as Chicago, but not far off), and if the rail flucks us off as much as many here say, UPS will start making many, MANY!, sleeper jobs, which means, many, MANY!, full time jobs for feeder drivers.

The rail is no different than UPS. Big is big, yes, but but isn't bigger than the whole effing world. UPS may be dumb and rich, but they aren't stupid. BNSF is a big rail, but it isn't the only one. And if sleeper teams means profitability, then you better believe Teamster jobs will be humping down the big roads.

Cachsux, where are you? Help me from sounding stupid!

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

FedEx pays their Sleeper teams less than UPS teams, hence it isn't as expensive for them to truck everything....and yet even they have begun to use rail.

Rail is congested due to the oil boom, no doubt about it, and UPS may be forced to put on more teams, but, by and large, the majority of ground shipments going more than 400 miles will still use rail. You do the math: one train with 25 double-stacked containers, or 50 feeder teams, each man grossing $2600-3000, to say nothing of tractor, fuel, etc.

 

[Johney]

FedEx pays their Sleeper teams less than UPS teams, hence it isn't as expensive for them to truck everything....and yet even they have begun to use rail.

Rail is congested due to the oil boom, no doubt about it, and UPS may be forced to put on more teams, but, by and large, the majority of ground shipments going more than 400 miles will still use rail. You do the math: one train with 25 double-stacked containers, or 50 feeder teams, each man grossing $2600-3000, to say nothing of tractor, fuel, etc.

What about late trains? 10 feeder drivers waiting for an hour or more on a late train? Now it's late so the 10 guys waiting aren't going to get the loads there on time. Now preload runs late and p/c drivers are loading at o/t rate. It sounds like a vicious cycle. Are the trains cheaper? Sure as long as they run on time. If not, sure the sleeper teams may be cheaper. Six of one half dozen of another.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

What about late trains? 10 feeder drivers waiting for an hour or more on a late train? Now it's late so the 10 guys waiting aren't going to get the loads there on time. Now preload runs late and p/c drivers are loading at o/t rate. It sounds like a vicious cycle. Are the trains cheaper? Sure as long as they run on time. If not, sure the sleeper teams may be cheaper. Six of one half dozen of another.

While I am a railfan, believe me when I say I would love to see many more Sleeper teams created. However, consider this as well: we are talking ground packages. Even if the loads are late, how many packages are really late?

Either way, I will be excited, so long as UPS keeps growing and getting stronger.

 

[Johney]

While I am a railfan, believe me when I say I would love to see many more Sleeper teams created. However, consider this as well: we are talking ground packages. Even if the loads are late, how many packages are really late?

Either way, I will be excited, so long as UPS keeps growing and getting stronger.

Ground packages are guaranteed are they not?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Ground packages are guaranteed are they not?

Yes.

 

[Rico]

Come to the west side of Chicago to find out why a power plant in Michigan is short of coal and a biodiesel maker in B, Minnesota, can’t get enough grain.
The answer is found near Western Avenue, where rail cars from Archer-Daniels-Midland Co. (ADM), the largest U.S. publicly traded ethanol producer, rest idle on the track above the Dwight D. Eisenhower Expressway. A short drive away a burnt orange, yellow and black locomotive from Warren Buffett’s BNSF railway sits on an overpass as motor traffic is snarled below.
They can’t move because increasing oil production from North Dakota’s Bakken field, a record grain crop and unprecedented cold weather overwhelmed the U.S. railroad system. In part because of transport delays, coal inventories were down 26 percent in January from a year ago. A quarter of all U.S. freight rail traffic passes through Chicago, or 37,500 rail cars each day. The trip through the city can take more than 30 hours





http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-...-for-buffett-s-trains-slows-coal-freight.html

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Ground packages are guaranteed are they not?

5 days. Trains generally make the trip in 4, going cross - country. They were experimenting with 3 day trains some years ago.

 

[Bottom rung]

We were told by our center manager at our pcm this am, that we're done with rail. 30 days to get equipment and drivers trained. I guess making a little money is better than none at all.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

UPS is the largest single customer of US railroads. They won't be let go without a fight, let alone not even a whisper in the news.

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['Lord Brown's bidding']

http://www.progressiverailroading.c...ago-Area-Consolidation-Hub-on-schedule--37645

"'Rail is a 24/7 operation for us. We depend on our transportation partners,' says Keith Hargarten, CACH's dispatch manager/feeder, adding that the hub requires 92 trains per day, and moves 5,000 inbound and 6,000 outbound shipments by rail per week at 13 intermodal ramps."

How many feeder drivers are needed to 5000 inbound and an additional 1000 outbound above the return trips from the inbound. The railroads, according to the article, use 92 pairs (an engineer and a conductor). And this is just at CACH; not all rail shipments go through CACH.

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[barnyard]

Feeder school bids have been hung at the 3 hubs in the Mpls area.

Be interesting to watch. Rumor has it, that 1 of the buildings has open routes because PT people are not signing bids. If the feeder bids are filled from package, this could be a bad, bad summer in the hubs.

I have been a railfan for 30+ years and have been watching this whole thing develop. I have friends that work for the railroads and have heard some things from them too.

Trains magazine has had articles detailing the relationship between the RRs and UPS. Be interesting to see if an article comes from the current situation.

 

[Bagels]

There's a huge shortage of rail capacity, which hasn't kept up with demand for decades.

 

[barnyard]

There's a huge shortage of rail capacity, which hasn't kept up with demand for decades.

Actually, until 6 months ago, there was enough capacity that trains were moving well. Railroads has been expanding capacity around ocean ports for expected growth in imported container traffic. No one was expecting exploding growth out of ND.

 

[1989]

Last year when I was on a vacation, I spoke to a feeder guy out of Glendive, MT. He said that all they do are shuttle runs from his building, more feeder jobs than package jobs. He pulls a set of trips out, trades at his meet and pulls a set back.

Can't keep ups drivers in eastern mt. One could probably transfer there over night.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Can't keep ups drivers in eastern mt. One could probably transfer there over night.

Wait 'til the oil runs dry.

 

[1989]

Wait 'til the oil runs dry.

Not in my lifetime. So I told.