Braveheart
Well-Known Member
How are we overpaid when our company makes over 3 billion dollars a year in profit. Should we work for less so they can make 6 billion and give bigger bonuses to managers. Sounds like you want us all picking cotton. We do earn it pal. It is called hard physical labor, manual labor, blood, sweat and tears. You are either a lazy manager sitting in the A/C or a disgruntled employee working elsewhere whining because you make less. Why do some people make a ton of money pushing buttons on a computor with little risk to there bodies, health, and safety. You are right that our union helps get us the fine pay that we deserve. But the type of work requires it too. We have plenty of wanna b's that come in talkin trash just like you and go right back out the door either due to an accident, can't handle the hi-pace, can't handle the heavy boxes, can't handle the hi-volume of work, can't handle the truck and the traffic, can't handle the management, or are just plain lazy. At least we physically earn it with hard work every day. The republicans are the ones sending all the jobs over seas and below the border dipwad. Go look at the Nafta and Cafta votes. They took union jobs from up north and moved it to a southern state paying a pathetic 7 dollars an hour with little to no benefits. The company got tax breaks too. But that was not good enough so to make even more profit they will exploit workers more as they send all the workers home without a job or benefits so they can send their jobs to Costa Rica. The pay there will be a joke, no work place safety, no overtime laws, forced excessive hours, 10, 12, 14, 16 hour shifts, no OSHA protection, no holidays, no vacations, no pensions, no 401k's to match, no social security for seniors, no workers comp, no DOT, no workers rights, no sick days, no medical benefits, no nothing. We union employees have made countless managers into million dollar managers. The market place also determines our pay and benefits. There are a lot of trucking, freight, and delivery jobs paying from starter pay of $15 an hour to around $35 an hour. We have people skills, customer service skills, and driving skills. We do work that most consider beneath them. We deal with nasty customers, crazy or idiot drivers, picky customers, vicious dogs, rain, snow, 100 degree heat and humidity, tropical storms, blizzards, etc etc I bet your liitle ass is hiding in doors. Boxes of birthday presents, mortgage papers, computors, jewelry, medicine, uniforms, prom dresses, Christmas presents, Mother's day and Father's day presents, legal paperwork, paychecks, auto parts, cell phones, electrical equipment, medical equipment, hazordous materials, vitamins, wine, guns, hi-values, etc may seem "not special" to you but our customer's think otherwise. There are two reasons my customers switch back to me at UPS and leave Fed Ex Ground or DHL is A= the overall customer service is far better and B= their stuff has a far higher occurance of damages, theft, and misdeliveries with the far less compensated guys. Who would you trust more, a guy at $10 an hour, or a guy at $25 an hour, to deliver narcotics, cell phones, gold, diamonds, legal paperwork with your entire idenity, etc. Many people either can't do our job or refuse to do so. The company's multi billion dollar profits also determine our pay. We also have to earn the pay. In many professions you go to school for 1-4-7 years and apprentice for a couple years and then you make good money. Some jobs take as little as a few months of training and with in a couple to 4 years you make good money. The average driver at UPS starts at $8 an hour as a part timer working only 20-25 hours a week for 6 to 8 years where I am at and then start at about $15 an hour as a full timer and after another 2 or more years of that they finally make good money. So 8-10 years sure seems like you have paid your dues and earned the good pay. The hi risk of injury as we have the highest workers comp injury problem in the country deems higher pay. Your proctologist called and said he found your head. He said it was empty and threw it out.
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satellitedriver
Moderator
You have no skill like a carpenter, brickmason, electrician, technician, mechanic, etc. Feel lucky, cause you are.
Hell,... I got get me an illegal.
You would probably have to hire an illegal. They have skills that you do not have or willing to acquire. I drew up the blueprints for my home, and built it .Would come home after "just delivering boxes" and do carpentery work, lay tile ect... until about 2am. Then get up and "just deliver boxes".
I was a troubleshooter mechanic in a coal mine. I was a welder /fitter. I was a net maker(shrimp nets, seines ect...). I have a blacksmith shop. Now I am just a lowly delivery boy.
Damn, I wasted my life doing and learning.
Hell,... I got get me an illegal.
You would probably have to hire an illegal. They have skills that you do not have or willing to acquire. I drew up the blueprints for my home, and built it .Would come home after "just delivering boxes" and do carpentery work, lay tile ect... until about 2am. Then get up and "just deliver boxes".
I was a troubleshooter mechanic in a coal mine. I was a welder /fitter. I was a net maker(shrimp nets, seines ect...). I have a blacksmith shop. Now I am just a lowly delivery boy.
Damn, I wasted my life doing and learning.
Although it wasnt my post, i think you guys are taking that wrong. He isnt saying that none of you guys have any skillset. He is saying that delivering packages isnt necessarily a skill. Its more just a labor, and a willingness to do that labor. A labor, which if it wasnt for the union, you wouldnt get compensated nearly as much as you do. I hardly see how having a TIG welding certification or a blacksmith shop, is a justification for your delivering wages.
Just like the people who have degrees in Kinesiology, you have skills. But the tasks you perform for UPS (unless you're a PE or Mechanic) are not skilled.LOL! Now that's the funniest thing I've heard in a while.I guess my certifications in TIG, MIG and stick welding, as well as Non Destructive Testing, Heavy Rigging and Powerplant construction make me unskilled. Maybe you should find out who you're talking to before you say something really stupid! Jackass
Reality is, money talks. You make more money at UPS than working as a gym trainer or doing heavy-rigging (unless you enjoy UPS that much). As such, you have to work into the ground and be involved in a less than desireable corporate culture. But hey, there's a lot worse
...so you're a troll...
The Brown Santa
Ping Pong Ball
Not 100% true. UPS max rate is $27.02? As a junior driver, I make $14 and change, but in the Boliermakers Union my rate was $29.75. I know it's apples to oranges, I just don't like it when people assume that even as a junior driver this is the most money I've ever made. Fact is, I got laid off from the Boliermakers, and UPS is only two miles from home, and I don't have to travel out of state for months at a time and be away from my family.
Besides all that, I would say that anyone who can run a route with EDD is pretty skilled. Especially since if I followed trace everyday I would get in at about midnight.
S
SpeciousAtBest
Guest
I do see Ape's point. He isn't saying all drivers have no outside skills. I read where he said most drivers are good people. There didn't appear to be any assasination of the character of drivers.
He said, paraphrasing, that a driver is paid well above what he or she would get without union protection. While many drivers have skills developed outside UPS, they really don't add value to your job. You don't need any of them to drive. You have to have a clean record, be clean on the job, follow traffic laws, follow UPS policy, be of physical and mental health to do the job, and be curteous to customers. How is this different than the expectations of any job.
For those who have skills, you are blessed.
For those who don't, see what happens if you lose your UPS job. No other delivery company pays anywhere near the same. Your whole standard of living is based on the continuation of your exhorbitant wages at UPS. Lose those, and you might be in trouble.
Tradesmen (bricklayers, pipefitters, electricians, carpenters, mechanics, steelworkers, etc.) can apply their trade for any outfit and make good money. UPS drivers cannot.
As far as EDD, yeah, it is different. Then again, I heard the same crying when we went from paper to DIAD.
I've driven. It is hard work, but so was delivering furniture for 7.50 an hour in college. However, when I drove, I didn't have to buy clothes, or use my own vehicle for company business. I didn't have to worry about getting fired and having no recourse. I didn't have plan my day. I didn't have to load my truck -- barring some cleaning up of missorts and wrong shelf sorting. I didn't have put gas or wash own vehicle. I had to work long hours, but who doesn't.
Yes, drivers are good people, some have skills. Driving a big bulky truck takes some skills. Dealing with customers take some skill, and patience. Hauling packages and especially over-70's is tough. But, how is that really so different than delivery lumber for Lowe's or shingles for Home Depot. Oh, yeah, you get paid way too much for what you do.
Heh, we all get paid good at UPS. I do, and so should you. Like another said, UPS is rich. However, to be honest, drivers are paid more than reasonable compared to any other similar job.
If UPS ever had the big one (Strike where everyone was layed off), the company would suck for a while. No one thinks it can replace its drivers overnight and get the same level of service from new hires. But honestly, do you really think we couldn't recover within a month or so. Granted, some customers would get frustrated and divert volume that would take years, if ever, to recover. But besides that, UPS would chug along with new hires, some name Smith, some named Adebeyanisi, other named Gonzalez or Lopez. Like me, you are a number, and one that I think could be replaced for about half the wage. I honestly think the lines would be around the block for these jobs. Absent a union, if UPS paid people half as much, treated them ok, and had some level of benefits, people would sign up in a minute.
I don't take my position so seriously as you. I know I can be replaced. So can you. If you share this view, then you will know that some of us have an argument that is true. Separate the pain or perceived insult and you know there is some truth to this. Perhaps it is so true that it just gets you upset. I hate when others are right, too.
So, my argument is that driving is a modestly skilled position, compensated far beyond worth, and easily replaced for less. It doesn't mean that the people driving are bad, greedy, mean, stupid, or ungrateful. It is, however, what it is.
No skills?
We work with the customers, we get the accounts, we fix their problems. They ship with us because they trust us. WE teach them about the levels of service, we give them a timetable.
I would call that sales, service, and marketing, and management . So those arent skills?
We drive in snow and black ice, windstorms, and hail..............we avoid idiots who shouldnt be on the road, on cell phones, eating, drinking, hallucinating, road ragers, and teenagers. With a great safety record.
I believe that would be a professional driver, and you dont think that is a skill?
We multi task, prioritize, and analyze, Isnt that a skill aka business management?
How much do you make? . If its less than me sorry for you, maybe its because Im more skilled. And if you make more, that would be called a mistake.
You make what you do, because we are the best at making the money flow in for you! Because we provide the service, otherwise you would have a bunch of trucks, and you cant make the money without us. Some really smart person figured that out, and agreed we are worth every cent we get paid.
satellitedriver
Moderator
EDD is a skill? I ignore EDD as an instructor, but use it as a tool. What I can bring to the table is experience and a brain. If you have been a driver for any length of time you would understand that the load tells you how to run your route. ( I do not mean little voices coming out of the packages). EDD could be a great asset to drivers if it was implemented properly from the start. It was not. Adaptability to an environment is how one survives. Not by Dogma.
outta hours
Well-Known Member
My "unskilled self will earn about 73k this year. My "skilled" neighbor the scientist will make 52K. You may say I am "unskilled" but I am becoming quite adept at making large deposits into my bank account each Friday. After 21 years I guess practice makes perfect.
I have figured it out. The management talking point is for the nest contract, that we are unskilled, uneducated, blue collar working, and we have no worth. I dont know why it took me so long to figure it out.
At the check in counter, the senior driver told me what a hard time he was having trying to finish his ba. With the hours the classes are offered etc. Then he told me about another driver being talked to for missing a scan. And I do realize missing a scan is bad, but his reply was "well Im only human, Ill try to be more careful in the future", the sups reply....................
"Well you know you get paid what you do to do a good job, coz where else is someone with no education going to make this kind of money" And this guy has two degrees. So I guess the plan is to degrade, and denegrate your personal satisfaction in your job, and your career, and yourself (oh yes wasnt it Susie who said its not a career) and make you feel as if you do not have an alternative. Except for the fact that we many times have more post high school ed, than those supervising us.
Wont work, tho. We know better. Watch out for those Junior posters, they just figured out how to get to www.
At the check in counter, the senior driver told me what a hard time he was having trying to finish his ba. With the hours the classes are offered etc. Then he told me about another driver being talked to for missing a scan. And I do realize missing a scan is bad, but his reply was "well Im only human, Ill try to be more careful in the future", the sups reply....................
"Well you know you get paid what you do to do a good job, coz where else is someone with no education going to make this kind of money" And this guy has two degrees. So I guess the plan is to degrade, and denegrate your personal satisfaction in your job, and your career, and yourself (oh yes wasnt it Susie who said its not a career) and make you feel as if you do not have an alternative. Except for the fact that we many times have more post high school ed, than those supervising us.
Wont work, tho. We know better. Watch out for those Junior posters, they just figured out how to get to www.
satellitedriver
Moderator
Real life example of your point? You have to make a point before others can make an example of it. I do not belong to the union, and I am a driver. You espouse the mirror image of how the Reamsters talk about UPS. No one is overcompensated at UPS. Management or drivers. You seem to have the zeal of a new convert.Nothing wrong with that, just typical.
satellitedriver
Moderator
What is the justification for your wages? Your sophomoric post is telling. I was not justifying my wage, nor did I see it in the other posts. Your use of the word "labor" multiple times is also telling. We lowly "laborers" are the fulcrum you are building your teeter-totter skillset on. If there was no union I would probably be making more.My ability would dictate salary not senoirity.
blue efficacy
Well-Known Member
Let's not kid ourselves here.
Even if you were the best employee in the building, you wouldn't make more than $27 an hour as a courier in a nonunion shop. Not to mention that you'd get no overtime for over 8 hours, only over 40 for the week...
Coldworld
60 months and counting
I don't take my position so seriously as you. I know I can be replaced. So can you. If you share this view, then you will know that some of us have an argument that is true. Separate the pain or perceived insult and you know there is some truth to this. Perhaps it is so true that it just gets you upset. I hate when others are right, too.
So, my argument is that driving is a modestly skilled position, compensated far beyond worth, and easily replaced for less. It doesn't mean that the people driving are bad, greedy, mean, stupid, or ungrateful. It is, however, what it is.[/quote]
Lets flip this for a minute. Look at most of the management at ups. They all started out as Part-time management or drivers hired off the street, many with no degrees. They get a ba from college and stay at ups for a long time and at best move into division management. Most dont get above on-road sup. Im not sure about the rest of you, but being an on road sup is not a "skilled" position. There are some management that have NO FOUR YEAR DEGREE. They get to the level they are from being with the company for 30 years. Are you telling me this takes college skill. Yes drivers could never leave here and make the kind of money they do at ups(as a driver) but sorry to tell you all that many sups could never be compensated as well anywhere else as they are at ups. Just because you are a supervisor at ups doesnt mean Jack ****. You would be lucky to get a job at jiffy lube or taco bell as a store manager. Face it, its true. And even then they probably wouldnt hire you because you dont have food service experience. There are many sups that have left ups and you know what...they arent in any kind of supervisor role at other companies. So take it any way you want, almost everyone here is unskilled.....period.
So, my argument is that driving is a modestly skilled position, compensated far beyond worth, and easily replaced for less. It doesn't mean that the people driving are bad, greedy, mean, stupid, or ungrateful. It is, however, what it is.[/quote]
Lets flip this for a minute. Look at most of the management at ups. They all started out as Part-time management or drivers hired off the street, many with no degrees. They get a ba from college and stay at ups for a long time and at best move into division management. Most dont get above on-road sup. Im not sure about the rest of you, but being an on road sup is not a "skilled" position. There are some management that have NO FOUR YEAR DEGREE. They get to the level they are from being with the company for 30 years. Are you telling me this takes college skill. Yes drivers could never leave here and make the kind of money they do at ups(as a driver) but sorry to tell you all that many sups could never be compensated as well anywhere else as they are at ups. Just because you are a supervisor at ups doesnt mean Jack ****. You would be lucky to get a job at jiffy lube or taco bell as a store manager. Face it, its true. And even then they probably wouldnt hire you because you dont have food service experience. There are many sups that have left ups and you know what...they arent in any kind of supervisor role at other companies. So take it any way you want, almost everyone here is unskilled.....period.
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