Let’s be serious for a sec

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by Faceplanted, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    so I finally had a chance to look over the southern supplement. I’m a company hater, trust me. Honestly, this contract proposal is imho decent. We still have Black Friday paid at holiday rate, now I can file if I get pulled of route for 2hr penalty which was a big issue for me. Besides 22.4, this contact proposal seems decent.

    Pension is enh, but honestly we make enough that we should not be idiots and cry when we’re still working at 57 due to bad financial decisions.

    I’m still on the fence due to the 22.4 language. I’m trying to talk to the newer guys about how they feel... I also think they should be able to do better with our raises... but U guys act like this contract is horrible. It’s not though.

    The 70 hour work week.... if your not a pusillanimous it’s As simple as calling In every sat during peak and taking your self out of service due to “fatigue”.

    There is already lots of ways to protect your self but you, as a person need to stick up for your self. Everybody cries about the long hours but is scared to get on the 9-5 list. Everybody cries about harassment but won’t file. Keep a detailed paper trail and your good

    Like I said, I’m gonna try to talk to the new drivers more about 22.4 and see how I vote, but it’s not the end of the world proposal wise.

    Some of these new guys are for the 22.4 language for their own reasons. They are teamsters and we need to respect their opinion. After talking to them, I tell them to just vote
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  2. Box Ox

    Box Ox Well-Known Member

    Well they’re not gonna be around for long if they’re made to fulfill their roles as intended. Completely disposable and underpaid underclass of driver to which every stop possible is shifted to them to take stops off RPCDs.

    There will be resentment from both sides toward the other because of this, and the Company will never again respect the Union. If the Union can get walked all over in this economy, there’s not much hope for it in any economy.

    Make sure you’re OK with everything you’d be voting yes to.

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  3. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    How it is worse besides 22.4 and imo semi slacking raises when compared to inflation. Part timers get paid more than what ups wants to pay them in markets where it’s necessary. Part timers in my building and many others are driving after a year now.

    How did the technology language change for drivers? It didn’t...

    A full time driver can Still request his 8 from what I understand in my sorry ass southern supplement... can they not? Maybe I’m wrong?
  4. The Real Jack RyanMI6

    The Real Jack RyanMI6 Active Member

    Ill be posting a more comprehensive response in a day or two but how will feel to know that 22.4 was a long term UPS plan they made this up. When you vote for it your voting for UPS to enrich themselfs. Now im all for UPS to be profitable so we keep working but come on. Theres now reason they cant have two shifts mon - fri and wed - Sunday of rpcds. No reason except greed. Theres a massive difference between greed and a profitable business
  5. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    I agree... 22.4 is a scam. But ask these new guys. Honestly ask them how they feel about it. These new drivers in my building have no problem working long hours and weekend. Who are we to say they shouldn’t?

    I think their idiots, but if that’s what they want we should respect that. 5 consecutive days is a big issue. With this new sat and soon sun delivery, logically there is no way ups can staff it and guarantee full time driver hours for everybody without 22.4
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  6. Poop Head

    Poop Head Lovin' every minute of it!

    Better raises!
  7. Faceplanted

    Faceplanted Well-Known Member

    I agree fam. But we aren’t far from where we should be imho. Im not at all defending ups, but I make the most out of all my peers, some are lawyers, some accountants, some deans with a masters working at public schools ect. I make more than a dentist I know.

    I personally was a ups employee for 8 years or so before I had 9-5 protection. How is it diff now?
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
  8. govols019

    govols019 You smell that?

    So, the fact that it changed for every non driving hourly employee doesn't cause you concern?
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    DELACROIX In the Spirit of Honore' Daumier

    I am sick and tired of hearing about how much money we get paid..We earned every dollar and pay dearly with the physical and mental demands of working in that environment. What is the use to work 30 or 40 years and end up so busted up that your will not be able to enjoy the rest of your retirement, that my friend is what you are looking at for your future.

    Look how these professional athletics are getting paid..Why..Because they sell there bodies at a young age, their longevity is barely 15 years. The same principle applies to anybody who has worked the kind of work that is demanded at UPS. To sell anybody short on the Retirement and Health and Welfare reward is criminal and that is happening to most of us in this Union.

    Your references should be doctors, executives and MIT graduates who been at their jobs for over 20 years, do we make as much as them. It is what the market is willing to pay, your salary or wages on how well you do your job and being in the right place at the right time. Are you comparing also the current executives on the UPS Board with lawyers, accountants and public teaching, guess who probably has the most educational training, study their degrees and get back with me.

    Your statement about wage comparisons is a cope out to justify people to go with the flow and be content on their piece of the crumbs. Also it is old adage from back in the day applied by management to suppress the rank and file (hence: the fat, overweight, uneducated truck driver stereotyping)..
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  10. BrownRecycler

    BrownRecycler Member

    I feel the "Top 10 Reasons To Vote No" is mostly about driver and less about package handler. How is more money is going to solve the new contract problem? It isn't just about the driver. It is about everyone. Granted, everyone have lot of "pragmatic" languages to insert into the contract. When voting, you are voting on behalf of contract AS-IS and your own interest as for other.

    But.... no matters how you vote, someone is going to lose and am not talking about UPS corporate. Another words, someone is going to get hurt in the contract deal either way. The numbers are the key when voting. Please don't make it just about driver.

    Pawn (package handler)
    Knight (driver)
    Rook (forklift/adv loader)
    Bishop (supervisor)
    Queen (manager)
    King (executive of UPS)

    Everyone is together. And, if you make more money, it probably motivate you more to install multiple clauses. The question, who are you installing the clause for? The driver or everyone?
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    Last edited: Aug 4, 2018
  11. Smashmouth

    Smashmouth Active Member

    So the number one thing on your list is you still get paid double time on Black Friday??....How about before two years ago you didnt have to work that day at all!!...but now its cool cause your getting “paid”
    Pension is ehh?? Maybe youre such a financial genius that you should have gone to work for Goldman Sachs instead of UPS...sure everyone should save their own and make good financial decisions, but as the market crash in 2008 showed, you can lose a lot of you personal savings real quickly, so to have a pension is very important, but maybe you think Social Security is ehh too??
    This 22.4 language is :censored2: period!! Would YOU do the job for $6 less an hour and have no 9.5 guarantee and have to work weekends and be the first ones forced to work 70? I think not!
    So part timers in you building are moving up in a year now. What happens when that stops? What happens when all those PT that have moved up make up the majority of your RPCD ranks and they arent going anywhere for 20 years? How long will people be stuck doing a 22.4 job then?
    You should vote no just because your in the southern supplement...have you ever compared it to the other supplements? We are the red headed stepchild in the south? Our language sucks compared to many of the others. Read a bit and find out how your getting hosed compared to other UPSers around the country.....then youll know what it feels like to be a 22.4 driver?
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  12. siouxman

    siouxman siouxman

    thanks for expressing your opinion and vote
  13. BrownRecycler

    BrownRecycler Member

    It looks like the "The Top Ten Reasons To Vote No" information is now obsolete. August 3, 2018

    Tentative Agreement Strengthens Protections Against Harassment, Excessive Overtime - UPS Rising


    New Proposed

    Under Article 37, Section 1 (a), there is stronger grievance enforcement for harassment with a sitting arbitrator and monetary penalties of up to three (3) times the employee’s daily guarantee. The sitting arbitrator will prevent UPS from delaying a deadlocked grievance while going through regular arbitration, eliminating a very lengthy process.


    Grievances not resolved by the Local or Area grievance procedure shall be forwarded to the National Article 37 Grievance Committee. Such Committee shall be comprised of an equal number of Union and Employer representatives and a sitting arbitrator who shall decide the merits and penalty of each case in the event of a deadlock by the Committee. Cases will be presented and decided in accordance with Article 8 and the National Grievance Committee Rules of Procedure

    9.5 / Excessive Overtime

    New Proposed

    • Article 37, Section 1 (c): New procedure makes it easier to get on or off the overtime (9.5) list. The union will control the process
    • Two five (5) month periods for getting on the list through the union, in addition to getting on or off the list at any time (except during the November 15-January 15 peak period) in between with one week’s notice to UPS.
    • In buildings that utilize 22.4 combination drivers, all regular package car drivers will be eligible for 9.5 protection regardless of seniority or route assignment.
    • The language on repeated violations is stronger in the tentative agreement; the current “three violations in five months” has been changed to four times in a calendar year, and that will now trigger a review by higher-level representatives of the union and company than the current process.


      The Union shall circulate and collect the names of package drivers who wish to be covered by the provisions of this Section twice each year. These lists shall be provided to the Company by January 5 and June 5 of each year The “opt-in” lists provided by the Union shall become effective on January 15th and June 15th. A driver may add or delete his/her name from the list at any time, with one week’s notice to the Employer.
  14. Think about what you just posted above.

    If part timers are driving within a year of getting hired as pt time then why in the world do we need a second classification of employees that will both scab work from the package car drivers and the preload or local sort employees?

    What are we gaining? Nothing but a concession.

    So...evidently the company needs package car drivers and we are settling for less.

    Nice analogy.
  15. What are we thinking?!

    So the 9.5 language has teeth now? Whatever.

    How about quadruple time auto pay for the co violating the 9.5 language and then....

    Wait for it....

    Hiring more FT pkg car drivers to alleviate the OT instead of sliding in some second rate paid position to scab off part time hours and full time PC drivers work?

    We are losing ground. Literally.
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  16. Adahowfarms

    Adahowfarms New Member

    22.4’s will be the UPS version of fedex ground. Most customers will hate them and we real drivers will make fun of them.
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  17. BrownRecycler

    BrownRecycler Member

    Can you discuss this in thread that I created? I like to hear more of your thought.
  18. PT Car Washer

    PT Car Washer Well-Known Member

    Who does "real drivers" not make fun of?
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  19. Doubleparkedrunner

    Doubleparkedrunner Active Member

    My seven year old just wanted chocolate bars and soda for breakfast; I don't agree that they should do it.

    Now I of course , prevented and stopped it from happening and they are all , after all, children. So the analogy isn't perfect but the point is that they don't know yet what is good or bad for them; much like the new drivers who don't understand what's going to happen to them.

    They need to see the big picture and understand that if they accept this position now there's a good chance they won't be able to make it too many years in package.

    Obviously if they still want to vote yes and do that job, then that's their right but we need to educate them without being condescending. The reason they don't mind working long and irregular hours now is because they haven't done it yet, don't understand the physically fatiguing toll this will play on their bodies and minds ....and all they see is the bump in pay that they'd be getting.

    And I disagree about you saying that there's no logical way ups can staff weekend work without this. They absolutely can and it only would take more full time RPCDs. Then all we would need are 3 different shifts.
    and ---Sunday-Thursday

    and guess what; Seniority rules so if the higher seniority drivers bids up all Monday through Friday positions then so be it. They've paid their dues and deserve their pick of the litter.

    Lower seniority drivers will just have to stick it out working a weekend day in their shift until they enough to bid a different schedule. BUT, they would get paid the SAME and have the SAmE PROTECTIONS as regular drivers.

    That took me all of ten seconds to come up with a way to fill weekend positions WIThOuT the 22.4 position. There is no need for 22.4. It is their solely for money. And not just the six dollar savings in pay. It will split the union over the years and will make every contract after this one worse and worse. So every contract will make ups more and more money. Because they will be able to screw us more and more

    When you have too many different classifications of worker, it is easier to cater contract proposals to a certain group each coming contract in order to screw another group over . When you have one classification then that classification obviously votes for themselves and collectively at the same time.

    If a new driver like this proposal it's only because they are playing checkers while ups is looking way down the road and playing chess.
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  20. Pt time car washers