Let’s be serious for a sec

[Frankie's Friend]

Can you discuss this in thread that I created? I like to hear more of your thought.

Where is it?

 

[Frankie's Friend]

The new 9.5 language will only fuel the 22.4 issue.

 

[BrownRecycler]

Where is it?

https://www.browncafe.com/community...o-vote-no-information-is-now-obsolete.378823/

Thank you.

 

[siouxman]

It looks like the "The Top Ten Reasons To Vote No" information is now obsolete. August 3, 2018

Tentative Agreement Strengthens Protections Against Harassment, Excessive Overtime - UPS Rising

Harrassment

New Proposed

Under Article 37, Section 1 (a), there is stronger grievance enforcement for harassment with a sitting arbitrator and monetary penalties of up to three (3) times the employee’s daily guarantee. The sitting arbitrator will prevent UPS from delaying a deadlocked grievance while going through regular arbitration, eliminating a very lengthy process.

Before

Grievances not resolved by the Local or Area grievance procedure shall be forwarded to the National Article 37 Grievance Committee. Such Committee shall be comprised of an equal number of Union and Employer representatives and a sitting arbitrator who shall decide the merits and penalty of each case in the event of a deadlock by the Committee. Cases will be presented and decided in accordance with Article 8 and the National Grievance Committee Rules of Procedure

9.5 / Excessive Overtime

New Proposed

• Article 37, Section 1 (c): New procedure makes it easier to get on or off the overtime (9.5) list. The union will control the process
• Two five (5) month periods for getting on the list through the union, in addition to getting on or off the list at any time (except during the November 15-January 15 peak period) in between with one week’s notice to UPS.
• In buildings that utilize 22.4 combination drivers, all regular package car drivers will be eligible for 9.5 protection regardless of seniority or route assignment.
• The language on repeated violations is stronger in the tentative agreement; the current “three violations in five months” has been changed to four times in a calendar year, and that will now trigger a review by higher-level representatives of the union and company than the current process.
  
  Before
  
  The Union shall circulate and collect the names of package drivers who wish to be covered by the provisions of this Section twice each year. These lists shall be provided to the Company by January 5 and June 5 of each year The “opt-in” lists provided by the Union shall become effective on January 15th and June 15th. A driver may add or delete his/her name from the list at any time, with one week’s notice to the Employer.

I don't really like the combo driver set up but I understand why the company wants them.Look at the competion and what they are being paid.UPS wants to lower its cost to be competitive.The package car drivers want less overtime and this may be a way to keep the cost for package down.Most of the drivers are hesitant to file a 9.5 grivence and until they do that nothing will change.The new language is much better but if we don't us it the same mess will continue

 

[DOK]

It looks like the "The Top Ten Reasons To Vote No" information is now obsolete. August 3, 2018

Tentative Agreement Strengthens Protections Against Harassment, Excessive Overtime - UPS Rising

Harrassment

New Proposed

Under Article 37, Section 1 (a), there is stronger grievance enforcement for harassment with a sitting arbitrator and monetary penalties of up to three (3) times the employee’s daily guarantee. The sitting arbitrator will prevent UPS from delaying a deadlocked grievance while going through regular arbitration, eliminating a very lengthy process.

Before

Grievances not resolved by the Local or Area grievance procedure shall be forwarded to the National Article 37 Grievance Committee. Such Committee shall be comprised of an equal number of Union and Employer representatives and a sitting arbitrator who shall decide the merits and penalty of each case in the event of a deadlock by the Committee. Cases will be presented and decided in accordance with Article 8 and the National Grievance Committee Rules of Procedure

9.5 / Excessive Overtime

New Proposed

• Article 37, Section 1 (c): New procedure makes it easier to get on or off the overtime (9.5) list. The union will control the process
• Two five (5) month periods for getting on the list through the union, in addition to getting on or off the list at any time (except during the November 15-January 15 peak period) in between with one week’s notice to UPS.
• In buildings that utilize 22.4 combination drivers, all regular package car drivers will be eligible for 9.5 protection regardless of seniority or route assignment.
• The language on repeated violations is stronger in the tentative agreement; the current “three violations in five months” has been changed to four times in a calendar year, and that will now trigger a review by higher-level representatives of the union and company than the current process.
  
  Before
  
  The Union shall circulate and collect the names of package drivers who wish to be covered by the provisions of this Section twice each year. These lists shall be provided to the Company by January 5 and June 5 of each year The “opt-in” lists provided by the Union shall become effective on January 15th and June 15th. A driver may add or delete his/her name from the list at any time, with one week’s notice to the Employer.

I don't really like the combo driver set up but I understand why the company wants them.Look at the competion and what they are being paid.UPS wants to lower its cost to be competitive.The package car drivers want less overtime and this may be a way to keep the cost for package down.Most of the drivers are hesitant to file a 9.5 grivence and until they do that nothing will change.The new language is much better but if we don't us it the same mess will continue

It’s different everywhere, only like 3 guys on 9.5 here out of 40 routes. Seems some areas of the country the drivers are abused more than others.

 

[Doubleparkedrunner]

I agree fam. But we aren’t far from where we should be imho. Im not at all defending ups, but I make the most out of all my peers, some are lawyers, some accountants, some deans with a masters working at public schools ect. I make more than a dentist I know.

I personally was a ups employee for 8 years or so before I had 9-5 protection. How is it diff now?

You make more because you definitely work harder than they do and believe it or not and surprisingly to many people you probably had to pay longer and harder dues to get to where you are than they are.

They may have student loans to pay off in some cases but there was no way they were worked harder than you were / are on a daily basis for years on end.

It's true what we do isn't rocket science but we are all fools to fall into the trap of defining our job as " just moving cardboard from one place to another ".

 

[Frankie's Friend]

I don't really like the combo driver set up but I understand why the company wants them.Look at the competion and what they are being paid.UPS wants to lower its cost to be competitive.The package car drivers want less overtime and this may be a way to keep the cost for package down.Most of the drivers are hesitant to file a 9.5 grivence and until they do that nothing will change.The new language is much better but if we don't us it the same mess will continue

If they want to reduce OT and lower their costs quit shoving the packages down the throats of $11/hr loaders on preload.

They are so freaking dumb.
Good load =s better production for drivers and better service for customers.

Dominos are easy to figure out....

For some that actually run the operation.

 

[siouxman]

You make more because you definitely work harder than they do and believe it or not and surprisingly to many people you probably had to pay longer and harder dues to get to where you are than they are.

They may have student loans to pay off in some cases but there was no way they were worked harder than you were / are on a daily basis for years on end.

It's true what we do isn't rocket science but we are all fools to fall into the trap of defining our job as " just moving cardboard from one place to another ".

I agree we work hard but the public wants free 2 day shipping and a product at the lowest cost.they could care less who delivers it as long as it gets there in one piece.we used to be the only game in town but no more.Sure post is a good example. It's a filler for our trailer loads. UPS makes some money maybe not a lot but it's packages we may not have if not for sure post.

 

[siouxman]

If they want to reduce OT and lower their costs quit shoving the packages down the throats of $11/hr loaders on preload.

They are so freaking dumb.
Good load =s better production for drivers and better service for customers.

Dominos are easy to figure out....

For some that actually run the operation.

I agree with you. A lot of ups infrastructure is outdated and a hindrance to process the volume. They missed the boat on up dating.

 

[siouxman]

Automation is coming.We will have

22.4’s will be the UPS version of fedex ground. Most customers will hate them and we real drivers will make fun of them.

they may hate them but the bottom line is cost

 

[siouxman]

My seven year old just wanted chocolate bars and soda for breakfast; I don't agree that they should do it.

Now I of course , prevented and stopped it from happening and they are all , after all, children. So the analogy isn't perfect but the point is that they don't know yet what is good or bad for them; much like the new drivers who don't understand what's going to happen to them.

They need to see the big picture and understand that if they accept this position now there's a good chance they won't be able to make it too many years in package.

Obviously if they still want to vote yes and do that job, then that's their right but we need to educate them without being condescending. The reason they don't mind working long and irregular hours now is because they haven't done it yet, don't understand the physically fatiguing toll this will play on their bodies and minds ....and all they see is the bump in pay that they'd be getting.

And I disagree about you saying that there's no logical way ups can staff weekend work without this. They absolutely can and it only would take more full time RPCDs. Then all we would need are 3 different shifts.
---Monday-Friday
Tuesday-Saturday
and ---Sunday-Thursday

and guess what; Seniority rules so if the higher seniority drivers bids up all Monday through Friday positions then so be it. They've paid their dues and deserve their pick of the litter.

Lower seniority drivers will just have to stick it out working a weekend day in their shift until they enough to bid a different schedule. BUT, they would get paid the SAME and have the SAmE PROTECTIONS as regular drivers.

That took me all of ten seconds to come up with a way to fill weekend positions WIThOuT the 22.4 position. There is no need for 22.4. It is their solely for money. And not just the six dollar savings in pay. It will split the union over the years and will make every contract after this one worse and worse. So every contract will make ups more and more money. Because they will be able to screw us more and more


When you have too many different classifications of worker, it is easier to cater contract proposals to a certain group each coming contract in order to screw another group over . When you have one classification then that classification obviously votes for themselves and collectively at the same time.

If a new driver like this proposal it's only because they are playing checkers while ups is looking way down the road and playing chess.

We have had this same fight over different classifications for years and i tend to agree with your thoughts on splintering the union but when no one votes or attends meetings (part timers and some full timers) i cant worry about them, they have their chance to voice opions . In my building we have a entire sort that does not belong to the union thus they cant vote

 

[Slug Life]

so I finally had a chance to look over the southern supplement. I’m a company hater, trust me. Honestly, this contract proposal is imho decent. We still have Black Friday paid at holiday rate, now I can file if I get pulled of route for 2hr penalty which was a big issue for me. Besides 22.4, this contact proposal seems decent.

Pension is enh, but honestly we make enough that we should not be idiots and cry when we’re still working at 57 due to bad financial decisions.

I’m still on the fence due to the 22.4 language. I’m trying to talk to the newer guys about how they feel... I also think they should be able to do better with our raises... but U guys act like this contract is horrible. It’s not though.

The 70 hour work week.... if your not a pusillanimous it’s As simple as calling In every sat during peak and taking your self out of service due to “fatigue”.

There is already lots of ways to protect your self but you, as a person need to stick up for your self. Everybody cries about the long hours but is scared to get on the 9-5 list. Everybody cries about harassment but won’t file. Keep a detailed paper trail and your good

Like I said, I’m gonna try to talk to the new drivers more about 22.4 and see how I vote, but it’s not the end of the world proposal wise.

Some of these new guys are for the 22.4 language for their own reasons. They are teamsters and we need to respect their opinion. After talking to them, I tell them to just vote

Well holy poopsicle Batman. We got to keep our double-pay for Black friday. We must have had the best of the best doing our supplement negotiations.
Who’d we send the guy that power washes McDonalds parking in the morning while I wait to get my crumby biscuit?
Yea we were the big winners in this supplement race let me tell ya.

 

[vvv]

So the number one thing on your list is you still get paid double time on Black Friday??....How about before two years ago you didnt have to work that day at all!!...but now its cool cause your getting “paid”
Pension is ehh?? Maybe youre such a financial genius that you should have gone to work for Goldman Sachs instead of UPS...sure everyone should save their own and make good financial decisions, but as the market crash in 2008 showed, you can lose a lot of you personal savings real quickly, so to have a pension is very important, but maybe you think Social Security is ehh too??
This 22.4 language is period!! Would YOU do the job for $6 less an hour and have no 9.5 guarantee and have to work weekends and be the first ones forced to work 70? I think not!
So part timers in you building are moving up in a year now. What happens when that stops? What happens when all those PT that have moved up make up the majority of your RPCD ranks and they arent going anywhere for 20 years? How long will people be stuck doing a 22.4 job then?
You should vote no just because your in the southern supplement...have you ever compared it to the other supplements? We are the red headed stepchild in the south? Our language sucks compared to many of the others. Read a bit and find out how your getting hosed compared to other UPSers around the country.....then youll know what it feels like to be a 22.4 driver?

I think we have a BINGO!! Nice layout brother.

 

[vvv]

so I finally had a chance to look over the southern supplement. I’m a company hater, trust me. Honestly, this contract proposal is imho decent. We still have Black Friday paid at holiday rate, now I can file if I get pulled of route for 2hr penalty which was a big issue for me. Besides 22.4, this contact proposal seems decent.

Pension is enh, but honestly we make enough that we should not be idiots and cry when we’re still working at 57 due to bad financial decisions.

I’m still on the fence due to the 22.4 language. I’m trying to talk to the newer guys about how they feel... I also think they should be able to do better with our raises... but U guys act like this contract is horrible. It’s not though.

The 70 hour work week.... if your not a pusillanimous it’s As simple as calling In every sat during peak and taking your self out of service due to “fatigue”.

There is already lots of ways to protect your self but you, as a person need to stick up for your self. Everybody cries about the long hours but is scared to get on the 9-5 list. Everybody cries about harassment but won’t file. Keep a detailed paper trail and your good

Like I said, I’m gonna try to talk to the new drivers more about 22.4 and see how I vote, but it’s not the end of the world proposal wise.

Some of these new guys are for the 22.4 language for their own reasons. They are teamsters and we need to respect their opinion. After talking to them, I tell them to just vote

Did you have an 8 hour request in Friday and start hitting the sauce hard for 4 straight hours before you posted this?
Can't see how you can want to go along with this offering. Guess you have low expectations.....and maybe low self esteem if you like to be treated this way and offered so little.
I think we are all worth far far greater and should strive for and demand it.

LET'S WALK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Griffin1820]

What do you mean a 2 hr penalty for being pulled off route

 

[Frankie's Friend]

I agree with you. A lot of ups infrastructure is outdated and a hindrance to process the volume. They missed the boat on up dating.

It's not rocket science. Garbage load....garbage "efficiency".

If I can find it I can deliver it....sooner or or later.

 

[Same ol crap]

so I finally had a chance to look over the southern supplement. I’m a company hater, trust me. Honestly, this contract proposal is imho decent. We still have Black Friday paid at holiday rate, now I can file if I get pulled of route for 2hr penalty which was a big issue for me. Besides 22.4, this contact proposal seems decent.

Pension is enh, but honestly we make enough that we should not be idiots and cry when we’re still working at 57 due to bad financial decisions.

I’m still on the fence due to the 22.4 language. I’m trying to talk to the newer guys about how they feel... I also think they should be able to do better with our raises... but U guys act like this contract is horrible. It’s not though.

The 70 hour work week.... if your not a pusillanimous it’s As simple as calling In every sat during peak and taking your self out of service due to “fatigue”.

There is already lots of ways to protect your self but you, as a person need to stick up for your self. Everybody cries about the long hours but is scared to get on the 9-5 list. Everybody cries about harassment but won’t file. Keep a detailed paper trail and your good

Like I said, I’m gonna try to talk to the new drivers more about 22.4 and see how I vote, but it’s not the end of the world proposal wise.

Some of these new guys are for the 22.4 language for their own reasons. They are teamsters and we need to respect their opinion. After talking to them, I tell them to just vote

 

[Same ol crap]

You sound like an idiot with no sights on the future. Go into management already.

 

[Faceplanted]

Why are we not fighting for higher 22.3 wages? Nobody says anything about them. In my building they work HARDER than drivers. What’s the diff between 22.3 and 22.4?

 

[Faceplanted]

You sound like an idiot with no sights on the future. Go into management already.

My letter is already in.