Load retainers? Company was correct....

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
Department of Public Safety(State Troopers): Retained loads do not apply to our operations with 2 exceptions- (1)Hazmat must be blocked so as not to spill or cause loss of containment. (2) Any object(could literally be anything) that could cause a load shift or depart the container(trailer)(out of the back or side) must be retained. I have been Level 1 DOT'd several times......no inspector asked me to open a sealed trailer. This is my experience.

The trooper(Sergeant) went on to say the use of retainers by UPS is UPS's policy or procedure construct.

Ok.

Now, I started this journey because of a very noticeable and deliberate change in procedures at my Hub. About the time Covid started, my Hub just quit using load retainers. And they became very militant and combative on the subject. With no support from our Feeder Mgt. No support from the Union.

I started with the Safety Committee. An investigation by Mgt. and Safety Co-Chair/Union Steward was started. The conclusion? The trailer was the retainer with a closed door. That's it. The Company has said this all along. Verified by DPS.

What else is there to do or say? My new procedure is to do exactly that......I do not use load retainers....

Some notes....safety was never a consideration. Except that using the door to shield falling pkgs was up to the employee and have been trained as such. In effect, affixing blame to the employee in case of injury. Like automated irreg. trains. Up to you to get out of the way. UPS used to care about damages.....this was given no consideration either. I asked(DPS) about the 100 mile equipment checks....nope doesn't apply to our operations. Note: Our District has begun cracking down on this.

Now, for all you 2 million mile types and the rest that are "sure" about this reg......I don't know what to say. Except that if you cause a load to be missed or such......because you refused a load...for a load retainer.....you might be surprised at the panel. No? I would respectfully encourage you to create your own investigation. Mine is complete.
 

burrheadd

KING Of GIFS
Department of Public Safety(State Troopers): Retained loads do not apply to our operations with 2 exceptions- (1)Hazmat must be blocked so as not to spill or cause loss of containment. (2) Any object(could literally be anything) that could cause a load shift or depart the container(trailer)(out of the back or side) must be retained. I have been Level 1 DOT'd several times......no inspector asked me to open a sealed trailer. This is my experience.

The trooper(Sergeant) went on to say the use of retainers by UPS is UPS's policy or procedure construct.

Ok.

Now, I started this journey because of a very noticeable and deliberate change in procedures at my Hub. About the time Covid started, my Hub just quit using load retainers. And they became very militant and combative on the subject. With no support from our Feeder Mgt. No support from the Union.

I started with the Safety Committee. An investigation by Mgt. and Safety Co-Chair/Union Steward was started. The conclusion? The trailer was the retainer with a closed door. That's it. The Company has said this all along. Verified by DPS.

What else is there to do or say? My new procedure is to do exactly that......I do not use load retainers....

Some notes....safety was never a consideration. Except that using the door to shield falling pkgs was up to the employee and have been trained as such. In effect, affixing blame to the employee in case of injury. Like automated irreg. trains. Up to you to get out of the way. UPS used to care about damages.....this was given no consideration either. I asked(DPS) about the 100 mile equipment checks....nope doesn't apply to our operations. Note: Our District has begun cracking down on this.

Now, for all you 2 million mile types and the rest that are "sure" about this reg......I don't know what to say. Except that if you cause a load to be missed or such......because you refused a load...for a load retainer.....you might be surprised at the panel. No? I would respectfully encourage you to create your own investigation. Mine is complete.
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Buffet Master

FEEDAH FATTY
If, and it's a huge if, something breaks through that trailer and causes an accident resulting in injury or death and there was nothing inside that trailer for load retainment, corporate legal will park a bus on your back so fast you won't know what hit you. They will not say that they told you you are exempt. No prosecutor in the world will look at the specific language of that regulation and say it is anything other than black and white. That is the part going over your head in this.

You want to mock my experience, that's fine dude. I started driving officially with a CDL in 92. I've worked under the original HOS. I worked under the original iteration of this new HOS that was different than the current one. 15 years for you? So the 2 changes you have seen are mandatory ELD, the 30 minute break and the addition of this topic, cargo securement. Do you know what the main crux of the cargo securement was?

You aren't going to believe me, so ask guys that pulled flatbed and hauled steel. Flatbed has very specific rules on securement pertaining to lbs ratings on straps and chains and the minimum needed to secure a load. Tell me, when a van loads a #45k coil, how is that secured vs a flatbed deck? General freight was not the main issue covered in this rule. How often have you seen regular freight break through a van that wasn't a layover? Whereas you can Google or whatever and find instances of coils, rebar, greasy bar and sheet steel breaking through a van under braking occurances and load shifts.

It's rare for general freight, especially floor load wall to wall stuff to break the trailer integrity short of a layover. But the absolute fact is, you are the last person to take control of that load when it's on your back. You are solely responsible. Again the intent of this new regulation was geared towards something quite specific, but the language covers a broad spectrum. And if, and I wish nothing of the sort happens to you or anyone, things go sideways and a one in a million accident occurs involving something coming out of your trailer that causes grievous harm or death and you had zero load securement, you are going to be an island unto yourself in that courtroom. UPS is not going to help you, they will separate themselves a thousand miles from you because you took it upon yourself to drive a load, which by definition was not secured. You don't want to believe a thing I say? That's fine man, but think on that and research fatality accidents involving trucks and see for yourself how much a company stands behind their driver.

The one thing that I and anyone else with significant time outside of UPS know, is that you and you alone are the sole operator of that equipment. The name on the truck and the title means nothing the second you cross off of company property. If you deem something unsafe or against regulation, you have the final say on it. I would have zero problem or worries standing in front of a panel on that principle.
 

quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
If, and it's a huge if, something breaks through that trailer and causes an accident resulting in injury or death and there was nothing inside that trailer for load retainment, corporate legal will park a bus on your back so fast you won't know what hit you. They will not say that they told you you are exempt. No prosecutor in the world will look at the specific language of that regulation and say it is anything other than black and white. That is the part going over your head in this.

You want to mock my experience, that's fine dude. I started driving officially with a CDL in 92. I've worked under the original HOS. I worked under the original iteration of this new HOS that was different than the current one. 15 years for you? So the 2 changes you have seen are mandatory ELD, the 30 minute break and the addition of this topic, cargo securement. Do you know what the main crux of the cargo securement was?

You aren't going to believe me, so ask guys that pulled flatbed and hauled steel. Flatbed has very specific rules on securement pertaining to lbs ratings on straps and chains and the minimum needed to secure a load. Tell me, when a van loads a #45k coil, how is that secured vs a flatbed deck? General freight was not the main issue covered in this rule. How often have you seen regular freight break through a van that wasn't a layover? Whereas you can Google or whatever and find instances of coils, rebar, greasy bar and sheet steel breaking through a van under braking occurances and load shifts.

It's rare for general freight, especially floor load wall to wall stuff to break the trailer integrity short of a layover. But the absolute fact is, you are the last person to take control of that load when it's on your back. You are solely responsible. Again the intent of this new regulation was geared towards something quite specific, but the language covers a broad spectrum. And if, and I wish nothing of the sort happens to you or anyone, things go sideways and a one in a million accident occurs involving something coming out of your trailer that causes grievous harm or death and you had zero load securement, you are going to be an island unto yourself in that courtroom. UPS is not going to help you, they will separate themselves a thousand miles from you because you took it upon yourself to drive a load, which by definition was not secured. You don't want to believe a thing I say? That's fine man, but think on that and research fatality accidents involving trucks and see for yourself how much a company stands behind their driver.

The one thing that I and anyone else with significant time outside of UPS know, is that you and you alone are the sole operator of that equipment. The name on the truck and the title means nothing the second you cross off of company property. If you deem something unsafe or against regulation, you have the final say on it. I would have zero problem or worries standing in front of a panel on that principle.
Well one good turn deserves another....eh? I believe you took personal shots at me....

It is interesting that you keep bringing up flatbed loads. We don't do flatbed loads.......that keeps going over your head....

This is the crux....the whole stand by UPS and DPS!

Now, for dying on that hill....alone in my principles.....

You don't know me. If you did, you would know how significant a journey and disappointing outcome this has been. I try to fight the good fight. We as employees lost here. You've made many declarative statements here that are yet to be seen or proved and downright conjecture/speculation. I suspect you are not a lawyer. Or an Authority. Nor am I. And believe it or not....we are actually in agreement here. Teammates.

That said, I've been instructed and confirmed by UPS and DPS that load retainers are NOT necessary for our operations. Note: I SAID NOT NECESSARY.....not that they wouldn't be safer and all that. Legality? Well.....

Again, you better be ready to accept ALL consequences up to and including permanent discharge.....of which is very uncertain.
Considering current circumstances.
 

Cowboy Mac

Well-Known Member
Well one good turn deserves another....eh? I believe you took personal shots at me....

It is interesting that you keep bringing up flatbed loads. We don't do flatbed loads.......that keeps going over your head....

This is the crux....the whole stand by UPS and DPS!

Now, for dying on that hill....alone in my principles.....

You don't know me. If you did, you would know how significant a journey and disappointing outcome this has been. I try to fight the good fight. We as employees lost here. You've made many declarative statements here that are yet to be seen or proved and downright conjecture/speculation. I suspect you are not a lawyer. Or an Authority. Nor am I. And believe it or not....we are actually in agreement here. Teammates.

That said, I've been instructed and confirmed by UPS and DPS that load retainers are NOT necessary for our operations. Note: I SAID NOT NECESSARY.....not that they wouldn't be safer and all that. Legality? Well.....

Again, you better be ready to accept ALL consequences up to and including permanent discharge.....of which is very uncertain.
Considering current circumstances.
If a DPS trooper and UPS agree they are not necessary for our ops, I wouldn’t see any remaining reason to demand a load retainer. You’re not going to get a ticket and you’re doing what the boss wants you to do. I dont see how “we as employees lost”.

Seems to me like we won because we got clarification on how to be legal with regards to load retainers and 100 mile checks. Good for you for putting in the effort in seeking out the answers.
 

UnionStrong

You can go now, scab
If a DPS trooper and UPS agree they are not necessary for our ops, I wouldn’t see any remaining reason to demand a load retainer. You’re not going to get a ticket and you’re doing what the boss wants you to do. I dont see how “we as employees lost”.

Seems to me like we won because we got clarification on how to be legal with regards to load retainers and 100 mile checks. Good for you for putting in the effort in seeking out the answers.
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quad decade guy

Well-Known Member
If a DPS trooper and UPS agree they are not necessary for our ops, I wouldn’t see any remaining reason to demand a load retainer. You’re not going to get a ticket and you’re doing what the boss wants you to do. I dont see how “we as employees lost”.

Seems to me like we won because we got clarification on how to be legal with regards to load retainers and 100 mile checks. Good for you for putting in the effort in seeking out the answers.
Ok.

But.....you never even mentioned .......SAFETY!

The whole idea of a load retainer is to.......RETAIN THE LOAD. As in....stuff not falling on your head, your feet.

Any chance of keeping pkgs in the trailer is now gone. See?

I know of a feeder driver that had 17 staples in his head after such. Chipped teeth......broken vertebra.

No? Absolutely.

Example: Most if not all irregs are placed at the very back of the trailer for obvious reasons. These can take all kinds of shapes and weights. Tubes full of heavy metal placed upright leaning against the door. This is stupid and dangerous with absolutely nothing to stop them from falling. STUPID.

Legality is only 1/3 of the equation.....damages being the other part.

And you are correct....I don't concern myself with load retainers anymore. My trailer that I took to my meet guy didn't have one and the one from Florida he brought me(100%) didn't have one either.
 

Cowboy Mac

Well-Known Member
Ok.

But.....you never even mentioned .......SAFETY!

The whole idea of a load retainer is to.......RETAIN THE LOAD. As in....stuff not falling on your head, your feet.

Any chance of keeping pkgs in the trailer is now gone. See?

I know of a feeder driver that had 17 staples in his head after such. Chipped teeth......broken vertebra.

No? Absolutely.

Example: Most if not all irregs are placed at the very back of the trailer for obvious reasons. These can take all kinds of shapes and weights. Tubes full of heavy metal placed upright leaning against the door. This is stupid and dangerous with absolutely nothing to stop them from falling. STUPID.

Legality is only 1/3 of the equation.....damages being the other part.

And you are correct....I don't concern myself with load retainers anymore. My trailer that I took to my meet guy didn't have one and the one from Florida he brought me(100%) didn't have one either.
Safety is an important part of it. Obviously the state trooper is not concerned about no load retainer causing danger to other motorists, or he wouldn't have told you that. So now you have to do what you can to avoid injury to yourself. You probably know a lot better than me about what that entails because I'm not a feeder driver.

Off the top of my head I would think that proper footwear to protect your feet is number one. If you can open the doors in a way that keeps you safe from falling objects, and always assume that an Irreg is leaning against the door waiting to fall on you.

I wouldn't be the least concerned about damages though. If UPS was concerned about damages, they would have a load retainer policy. Let it fall, not on you, pick it up, and move on.
 
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