Looking at Opportunity to become FedEx ISP

[FedGT]

Here we go:

First off any of these guys that says your routes at anytime are worthless are full of complete . There are massive amounts of buyers looking to buy into these routes as long as true numbers are being presented. We have had many high six figure deals transacted on 5 and 6 PSAs with only being on for sale sites 2 weeks to a month. Obviously demographics play a huge part in valuation and more than likely if your state goes ISP there will be a drop in valuation with the supply factor outrageously outweighing the demand factor. Economically speaking the factor swings completely to the other side of the scale after transition because of the completely opposite effect, very few contractors and the ones that are in are the ones that are WANTING to build this type of business. You will get much more opinions of the complete over reaching negative opinions (yes usually not facts) from the majority on this board. None of us that are content with what we do and are multi route owners over ISP requirements on this board have any vested interest if you buy in or not but we will be truthful on what to expect.
Contracting is not easy, don't expect to buy in absantee and make 10-25% returns a year, X on many days makes you feel like strangling most of their employees, drivers are what they are don't anticipate too much you will eventually get some diamonds but most are coal and it takes a long time to get a crew of diamonds.
That being said there are very few of my investments that I can say have increased as quickly as these routes have. Bought in with 4 PSAs one supp and within a couple years have 6 PSAs 4 supps, 5 employees to 10 employees. I bought in the six figures (don't need to disclose) and if I were to sell based off the x net multiples that are going for in my area plus the vast pool of buyers I would easily pull 65% profit on the low end and 80% on the high end. With the extra money that increased this year and pulling the extra PSAs for a full year, next year the numbers will show 75%-90%. That is not going to be the norm but it is what has happened to me.
Every investment is very risky but take it for what it is, if you proceed go in knowing you are working with a multi billion dollar company, they are going to have high (sometimes extremely high) standards to abide by. Ground has increased its market share and growth every quarter it has been around including 2006-2011. You know what didn't- stocks, bonds, gold, silver, real estate, should I keep going. All in all I can safely say I would do it again easily even knowing what I know now. I would do a better job checking out the trucks before I hand over the check though.

 

[FedGT]

Side note many on this board, negative ones and positive ones including myself are looking at the signs: global economic decline, China reeling, Spain and Italy on the verge of collapse. Me personally, I think we are heading for a much larger recession than the last (just my opinion). That is a large reason of why I bought in, no route will be recession proof but the growth in Ground and more importantly E-commerce is growing at exponential rate and where are you finding the best deals??? People still need product to live and if they want it cheaper they buy online I want to be on the side that is making money on that.
If that doesn't happen.......hey I'm still increasing revenue at a pretty amazing pace right now.

 

[dmac1]

You said the magic word- you have turnover because of the low pay. You have low quality workers because of low pay. That costs you money. The more you are forced to cut pay, and the higher minimum wage goes, the harder it will be to find workers willing to work for your table scraps.

 

[dmac1]

Here we go:

First off any of these guys that says your routes at anytime are worthless are full of complete . There are massive amounts of buyers looking to buy into these routes as long as true numbers are being presented. We have had many high six figure deals transacted on 5 and 6 PSAs with only being on for sale sites 2 weeks to a month. Obviously demographics play a huge part in valuation and more than likely if your state goes ISP there will be a drop in valuation with the supply factor outrageously outweighing the demand factor. Economically speaking the factor swings completely to the other side of the scale after transition because of the completely opposite effect, very few contractors and the ones that are in are the ones that are WANTING to build this type of business. You will get much more opinions of the complete over reaching negative opinions (yes usually not facts) from the majority on this board. None of us that are content with what we do and are multi route owners over ISP requirements on this board have any vested interest if you buy in or not but we will be truthful on what to expect.
Contracting is not easy, don't expect to buy in absantee and make 10-25% returns a year, X on many days makes you feel like strangling most of their employees, drivers are what they are don't anticipate too much you will eventually get some diamonds but most are coal and it takes a long time to get a crew of diamonds.
That being said there are very few of my investments that I can say have increased as quickly as these routes have. Bought in with 4 PSAs one supp and within a couple years have 6 PSAs 4 supps, 5 employees to 10 employees. I bought in the six figures (don't need to disclose) and if I were to sell based off the x net multiples that are going for in my area plus the vast pool of buyers I would easily pull 65% profit on the low end and 80% on the high end. With the extra money that increased this year and pulling the extra PSAs for a full year, next year the numbers will show 75%-90%. That is not going to be the norm but it is what has happened to me.
Every investment is very risky but take it for what it is, if you proceed go in knowing you are working with a multi billion dollar company, they are going to have high (sometimes extremely high) standards to abide by. Ground has increased its market share and growth every quarter it has been around including 2006-2011. You know what didn't- stocks, bonds, gold, silver, real estate, should I keep going. All in all I can safely say I would do it again easily even knowing what I know now. I would do a better job checking out the trucks before I hand over the check though.

Are you claiming that you have no vested interest in making people think your route is valuable??? If you or anyone else believes that, then that person is a fool. I haven't had a stressful day like you talk about in years. I am retired in a warm climate, making an occasional real estate deal, with no pressure. I am independent, while you are totally dependent on Fedex.

I have no doubt that there are a lot of ignorant people wiling to pay six figures. A sucker is born every minute. That doesn't mean a smart analyst will look at your 'business' and say it is a good long term investment.

Any astute investor would NEVER pay six figures for any contract that allowed the other party to cancel at any time. And every investment is not very risky. Whoever told you that is a liar. Stocks have doubled in the last 6 years, home prices are up 30% in the last year alone in major markets, rents never dropped, making the recession a great time to invest in real estate.Granted, if all you know how to do is drive a truck, something more complex may not be for you, even if less risky.

I guess for some people with no confidence or skills, having fedex to hold your hand feels safe and secure.
3

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

As often as new drivers are needed for turnover they are needed for growth. I've heard multiple times from guys that come work for me they have never made this much money in their life. In the last 6 months I've had 5 guys call me looking for a job. They ask my drivers on the street and get my number. It can't be that bad.

But even you have to admit that it could be much better.

 

[It will be fine]

But even you have to admit that it could be much better.

Absolutely, but it's not the salt mines. Many of us pay a living wage and treat our people with more respect than the management teams at both Express and brown.

 

[bbsam]

Absolutely, but it's not the salt mines. Many of us pay a living wage and treat our people with more respect than the management teams at both Express and brown.

And we're far more laid back.

 

[Mama Llama]

Here we go:

First off any of these guys that says your routes at anytime are worthless are full of complete . There are massive amounts of buyers looking to buy into these routes as long as true numbers are being presented. We have had many high six figure deals transacted on 5 and 6 PSAs with only being on for sale sites 2 weeks to a month. Obviously demographics play a huge part in valuation and more than likely if your state goes ISP there will be a drop in valuation with the supply factor outrageously outweighing the demand factor. Economically speaking the factor swings completely to the other side of the scale after transition because of the completely opposite effect, very few contractors and the ones that are in are the ones that are WANTING to build this type of business. You will get much more opinions of the complete over reaching negative opinions (yes usually not facts) from the majority on this board. None of us that are content with what we do and are multi route owners over ISP requirements on this board have any vested interest if you buy in or not but we will be truthful on what to expect.
Contracting is not easy, don't expect to buy in absantee and make 10-25% returns a year, X on many days makes you feel like strangling most of their employees, drivers are what they are don't anticipate too much you will eventually get some diamonds but most are coal and it takes a long time to get a crew of diamonds.
That being said there are very few of my investments that I can say have increased as quickly as these routes have. Bought in with 4 PSAs one supp and within a couple years have 6 PSAs 4 supps, 5 employees to 10 employees. I bought in the six figures (don't need to disclose) and if I were to sell based off the x net multiples that are going for in my area plus the vast pool of buyers I would easily pull 65% profit on the low end and 80% on the high end. With the extra money that increased this year and pulling the extra PSAs for a full year, next year the numbers will show 75%-90%. That is not going to be the norm but it is what has happened to me.
Every investment is very risky but take it for what it is, if you proceed go in knowing you are working with a multi billion dollar company, they are going to have high (sometimes extremely high) standards to abide by. Ground has increased its market share and growth every quarter it has been around including 2006-2011. You know what didn't- stocks, bonds, gold, silver, real estate, should I keep going. All in all I can safely say I would do it again easily even knowing what I know now. I would do a better job checking out the trucks before I hand over the check though.

Thank you. What you are saying seems to be consistent with what I have found. I am not the only one who is interested in these routes, but I have right of first refusal. The other interested party already owns several routes and they apparently are betting on it. I don't have to borrow money and it looks like the returns are better than I could earn elsewhere. One thing I have noticed by looking at comps is that it seems you can get a bargain if you are purchasing a 1-4 routes, but will pay more for routes if you are purchasing 5. Everything else I have heard about difficulties in running the day to day operation (i.e. employees, equipment, management) are not unique, but can be encountered in any industry. I am planning on running it myself, but I am worried that I will not ever be able to take vacation. Would you be willing to speak with me on the phone?

 

[It will be fine]

Thank you. What you are saying seems to be consistent with what I have found. I am not the only one who is interested in these routes, but I have right of first refusal. The other interested party already owns several routes and they apparently are betting on it. I don't have to borrow money and it looks like the returns are better than I could earn elsewhere. One thing I have noticed by looking at comps is that it seems you can get a bargain if you are purchasing a 1-4 routes, but will pay more for routes if you are purchasing 5. Everything else I have heard about difficulties in running the day to day operation (i.e. employees, equipment, management) are not unique, but can be encountered in any industry. I am planning on running it myself, but I am worried that I will not ever be able to take vacation. Would you be willing to speak with me on the phone?

Vacation is a very real concern. With 5 routes you should have one extra driver in addition to yourself. You'll leave that person in charge and then make arrangements with other contractors to look out for your stuff while you're gone. It's hard, in my experience when I'm gone the drivers slack off more and make it pretty stressful on my managers. They get it done though, but it will take a while before you can trust your crew to operate without you. Probably a few years before you'll want to leave the state.

 

[FedGT]

Are you claiming that you have no vested interest in making people think your route is valuable??? If you or anyone else believes that, then that person is a fool. I haven't had a stressful day like you talk about in years. I am retired in a warm climate, making an occasional real estate deal, with no pressure. I am independent, while you are totally dependent on Fedex.

I have no doubt that there are a lot of ignorant people wiling to pay six figures. A sucker is born every minute. That doesn't mean a smart analyst will look at your 'business' and say it is a good long term investment.

Any astute investor would NEVER pay six figures for any contract that allowed the other party to cancel at any time. And every investment is not very risky. Whoever told you that is a liar. Stocks have doubled in the last 6 years, home prices are up 30% in the last year alone in major markets, rents never dropped, making the recession a great time to invest in real estate.Granted, if all you know how to do is drive a truck, something more complex may not be for you, even if less risky.

I guess for some people with no confidence or skills, having fedex to hold your hand feels safe and secure.
3

Hahahahahahahhahahahhhaha!!!!!!

Keep talking about your intelligence and skills and how great you are while posting every thing that contradicts that. You being upset about fedex and being risky and recession being best times to own real estate, you will be the one reeling soon, much sooner than me.
Upset about all the people my investment partner has hurt. Talk about yours for a couple seconds, Fanny, Freddy, etc. tell the hundreds of thousands of individuals that lost homes, and filed bankruptcy how great of an investment inflated housing markets are, just the same as today.
Stop misquoting and being ignorant. Wow you made 40,000 in lumber costs, good for you. Now I should be like you for a second let's see how this goes.
"You screwed a seller out of money because they didn't know the value of that land. You are a sick despicable person that took advantage of someone's retirement and livelihood and should be ashamed of yourself. Then you chopped down numerous trees destroying our amazing ecosystem all because of yohr greed. Who won in this deal besides yourself!!"

I've made 400-500% on low six figure deals in the market, stop acting like you are any more special or intelligent than anyone on this board. You also seem very happy in your warm climate retirement. I'm quite confident I will be the opposite of what I know you are when I am old and retired. Definitely won't be calling out people wasting my time on negativity and personal attacks on the Internet.

 

[dmac1]

Hahahahahahahhahahahhhaha!!!!!!

Keep talking about your intelligence and skills and how great you are while posting every thing that contradicts that. You being upset about fedex and being risky and recession being best times to own real estate, you will be the one reeling soon, much sooner than me.
Upset about all the people my investment partner has hurt. Talk about yours for a couple seconds, Fanny, Freddy, etc. tell the hundreds of thousands of individuals that lost homes, and filed bankruptcy how great of an investment inflated housing markets are, just the same as today.
Stop misquoting and being ignorant. Wow you made 40,000 in lumber costs, good for you. Now I should be like you for a second let's see how this goes.
"You screwed a seller out of money because they didn't know the value of that land. You are a sick despicable person that took advantage of someone's retirement and livelihood and should be ashamed of yourself. Then you chopped down numerous trees destroying our amazing ecosystem all because of yohr greed. Who won in this deal besides yourself!!"

I've made 400-500% on low six figure deals in the market, stop acting like you are any more special or intelligent than anyone on this board. You also seem very happy in your warm climate retirement. I'm quite confident I will be the opposite of what I know you are when I am old and retired. Definitely won't be calling out people wasting my time on negativity and personal attacks on the Internet.

You seem very angry!!!!!!!

I am having a blast posting here and seeing your feeble responses attacking me personally while having no response to my points. I haven't attacked anyone's personality, even yours. And you see some need to misquote me. A recession is a good time to buy real estate. A lot of people need to sell, or face foreclosure. However, I don't work with foreclosures. I like properties with hidden value, like the ability to develop the property, or subdivide, or make alterations that add instant value. If I find a rental property like a small apartment complex with lower than average rents due to deferred maintenance, I can add value easily two ways at once. Doing the deferred maintenance increases the property value. Then on top of that, a well maintained apartment rents for more, increasing the value of the building even more. I never had to evict anyone,in poorly maintained complexes, turnover is high, allowing me to improve 1-2 units at a time. Took me just over 1 year to increase a property from $320k to $480k. Took $8k per unit, six units, and about $30k in closing costs to make about $80k before taxes. While doing the rehab, the rented units were enough to pay the bills.

More recently, bought a property, 3 acres with a dilapidated mobile home on it for $32k. Had well, power, and septic already. Had a home built for $85k plus about $15k in permits, etc, then sold it for $165k. Only about $30k in profit, but I did no labor. Found it by spending time on the internet and recognized the potential- hidden value that I like. I had to put cash out to buy that property- it wasn't financeable. And the $15 k was out of pocket too. But the building cost me nothing out of pocket with a construction loan, so a $45k out of pocket 'risk' earned me $30k in about 8 months.

I never said I was special, which seems to be the claim of ISPs, who constantly claim that it takes someone special to do what they do. Anyone can do what I have done, and anyone can be an ISP if that is what they want.

And I didn't screw anyone- the property had been on the market a long time, and the sellers were going to lose the home they wanted to buy. . And you apparently missed the part where I replanted, and in fact planted nearly twice as many trees as were harvested. The property now eleven years later looks fantastic, and is healthier and absorbing more CO2 than the fully grown trees were absorbing from the atmosphere. I am actually helping with global warming!!!

And good for you making 400-500%. If you can do that, it is a much better investment than buying a job at fedex ground. You should see the logic in that.

But you really need to read what I post more carefully if you are going to reply, and try not to misqote me or make assumptions in your own little world about what I do.

And I repeatedly have stated that anyone could do what I do, it isn't hard, just takes a little experience and educating yourself on real estate values. And I am retired and not even 60, so I don't think 'old and retired' applies to me. You need to quit thinking that you are 'special' because few can do what you do. Anyone willing to put up with fedex, go through the hassle of having employees, and risking their investment dollars can do exactly what you are doing.

 

[It will be fine]

The threat of union organizing bringing down the model is as credible as robots. Sure it could happen, it's just not very likely anytime soon. It's a hard sell for the teamsters to convince drivers, "Hey pay us dues and in just 5 short years of legal battles we may be able to start negotiations with FedEx to get you better compensation." The teamsters are incapable of such an effort and the average worker is not interested. The average Ground driver isn't around much more than 5 years.

 

[I Am Jacks Damaged Box]

Here we go:

First off any of these guys that says your routes at anytime are worthless are full of complete . There are massive amounts of buyers looking to buy into these routes as long as true numbers are being presented. We have had many high six figure deals transacted on 5 and 6 PSAs with only being on for sale sites 2 weeks to a month. Obviously demographics play a huge part in valuation and more than likely if your state goes ISP there will be a drop in valuation with the supply factor outrageously outweighing the demand factor. Economically speaking the factor swings completely to the other side of the scale after transition because of the completely opposite effect, very few contractors and the ones that are in are the ones that are WANTING to build this type of business. You will get much more opinions of the complete over reaching negative opinions (yes usually not facts) from the majority on this board. None of us that are content with what we do and are multi route owners over ISP requirements on this board have any vested interest if you buy in or not but we will be truthful on what to expect.
Contracting is not easy, don't expect to buy in absantee and make 10-25% returns a year, X on many days makes you feel like strangling most of their employees, drivers are what they are don't anticipate too much you will eventually get some diamonds but most are coal and it takes a long time to get a crew of diamonds.
That being said there are very few of my investments that I can say have increased as quickly as these routes have. Bought in with 4 PSAs one supp and within a couple years have 6 PSAs 4 supps, 5 employees to 10 employees. I bought in the six figures (don't need to disclose) and if I were to sell based off the x net multiples that are going for in my area plus the vast pool of buyers I would easily pull 65% profit on the low end and 80% on the high end. With the extra money that increased this year and pulling the extra PSAs for a full year, next year the numbers will show 75%-90%. That is not going to be the norm but it is what has happened to me.
Every investment is very risky but take it for what it is, if you proceed go in knowing you are working with a multi billion dollar company, they are going to have high (sometimes extremely high) standards to abide by. Ground has increased its market share and growth every quarter it has been around including 2006-2011. You know what didn't- stocks, bonds, gold, silver, real estate, should I keep going. All in all I can safely say I would do it again easily even knowing what I know now. I would do a better job checking out the trucks before I hand over the check though.

 

[Mama Llama]

Does anyone have experience with absentee owners? What are they paying their managers?

 

[MrFedEx]

Absolutely, but it's not the salt mines. Many of us pay a living wage and treat our people with more respect than the management teams at both Express and brown.

I just threw up.

 

[MrFedEx]

Does anyone have experience with absentee owners? What are they paying their managers?

As little as possible.

 

[dmac1]

No one can make any money by hiring a manager. And not a single ISP pays a livable wage unless the driver is required to work many hours of overtime to make that wage. Not a single driver hired by a multi=route owner makes a wage a family can live on for a 40 hour workweek. Unless that owner expects taxpayers to provide that family with food stamps, housing subsidies, and health care subsidies. If a driver needs ANY gov't assistance to support himself or his family, it is the rest of us taxpayers who are paying to support that driver, not the owner. In effect, the taxpayer is directly subsidizing the owner of the routes, and putting taxpayer dollars into his pocket.

 

[It will be fine]

No one can make any money by hiring a manager. And not a single ISP pays a livable wage unless the driver is required to work many hours of overtime to make that wage. Not a single driver hired by a multi=route owner makes a wage a family can live on for a 40 hour workweek. Unless that owner expects taxpayers to provide that family with food stamps, housing subsidies, and health care subsidies. If a driver needs ANY gov't assistance to support himself or his family, it is the rest of us taxpayers who are paying to support that driver, not the owner. In effect, the taxpayer is directly subsidizing the owner of the routes, and putting taxpayer dollars into his pocket.

That's not even close to true.