Made a sexual joke, got attacked, advice?

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

His only recourse may have been had he added the words "signed under duress"; however, he admits that he willingly signed it and as such he needs to be looking for work elsewhere.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

His only recourse may have been had he added the words "signed under duress"

Meaningless.

Your weakest point is you had Union Representation and you said you decided to resign so you would not be fired.

End of story.

Lawyering up is already in progress.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that.

Lawyers have boat payments too.

@Mugarolla seems to be giving you sound advice as far as I can tell.

He should be given an award.... for all the time he's wasted in this thread.

 

[Sadman101]

You liked that, did you

Not as much as you did.

You said he threatened to take your hours down to zero if you didn't resign. What do you think he meant by that? He meant that if you didn't resign, he was going to fire you and take your hours down to zero.

Is that your assumption or is it fact?

He never once said he was going to suspend you. But he did say he was going to fire you.

So why are you asking about a suspension when he told you he was going to fire you.

You are missing the point. My point is you are assuming by having 0 hours that means I'm fired. That is not always true.

Should I type slower again?

He never said he was going to suspend you, he said he was going to fire you.

Not only according to me, but also according to your labor manager.

type as slow as you want, you will never start making sense.

Your entire point is based on the premise that he dis nothing wrong. That's the major flaw in your reasoning.

I just did. Let's keep going

No, you made assumptions.

What Counterpoint are you talking about?

Everytime you accused me of making a point I never made and me calling you out for being disingenuous.

AND, the fact that you seem to ignore the fact that he said you get no hours or resign. No? Ok you are fired. How stupid would he have to be to phrase I'm going to fire you in two different ways.

You said the labor manager said either resign or I will fire you. You said he also said that he would take your hours down to zero. He can't do that contractually, unless he fires you.

You're supposed Counterpoint was that the labor manager said he was going to reduce your hours.

Yes. If you didn't resign he was going to reduce your hours down to zero by firing you.

Not a hard concept to comprehend.

This is entirely your baseless assumption. You assume he meant reduction of hours meant firing despite the fact that then tried to fire me. You are assuming he phrased the same thing 2 ways.

He said that if you didn't resign, he was going to reduce your hours to zero, by firing you for sexual harassment.

Again, he cannot reduce your hours to zero without firing you.

Really? He can't? But you said I could grieve him if he did. But if he cant reduce my hours and not fire me, how could I grieve him? Do you see the flaw in your logic? You are implying that because he cannot LEGALLY do that he did not do that. That's absolutely dishonest.

If a supe fires you for being ugly, you can sue/grieve him. If you went onto a forum and said I was fired for being ugly and the response was, "he can't do that, he must have just fired you because he can fire anyone for no reason." How freaking dumb would that be. That's assuming he was following the rules, dude.

Just did.

just tried*

Then who am I with?

I'm not even sure, probably a ups rep with the horrible defense here.

Look at that, we agree on something.

I agreed with almost everything you have said because the points you addressed were a ghosts points that only you saw. There is only 1 single thing we disagree on, and that was the intent behind the labor managers words. The fact that you dont see that is absolute evidence of your agenda here.

They were referring to the fact that your firing would not have stuck. Yes, you would have been fired, but most probably would have got your job back.

And if you don't believe me, go ask them for yourself what they meant by you would not have been fired.

No, some straight said he cant fire you for that, or if he could have he would have.

Again, assumptions out the ass here.

I ignored nothing.

The labor manager did not say he was going to suspend you, he said he was going to fire you.

You were not injured, you were about to be fired.

You were about to be fired for sexual harassment. Nothing to do with constructive discharge.

Yes, he did say he was going to discharge you. This is the only one relevant. The others are not relevant to your situation

you are missing the point again, man.

Exactly. But you said that he told you he was going to reduce your hours to zero because you didn't resign. That is correct.

If you didn't resign, he was going to reduce your hours to zero by firing you.

Or, BECAUSE you didn't resign, he was going to reduce your hours to zero by firing you.

That's your assumption, not fact. You pretend to know what he meant. The very fact that him trying to fire me after was different than the reduction of hours proves your point wrong.

If you assume everyone follows the rules how can you grieve anyone for breaking rules?

It is the same thing. The labor manager cannot reduce your hours to zero unless he fires you.

If you didn't resign, he was going to reduce your hours to zero, by firing you, in that order.

Or, if you didn't resign, he was going to for you, thus reducing your hours to zero.

Let me ask you, do you really think the smartest way to say resign or be fired is to say "resign or I will remove you from the schedule, give you no work and put the process in to get you fired."? Be honest now. What then does it mean to immediately after effectively say "you're fired" on the spot. How are those the same thing? You are implying he said I fire you or I fire you now or you resign. Illogical.

I'm not assuming anything. If the labor manager told you he was going to reduce your hours to zero and didn't mention anything about firing you, the shop steward would have said something, because he knows the labor manager cannot do that.

The shop steward knew that if you didn't resign the labor manager was going to fire you.

And the shop steward most likely believed that you would not get your job back in a grievance hearing.

That's why he told you to resign. And yes, he was wrong.

Look at how you phrase this.

The steward knew the rules.
And then at the end of your point.
The steward was wrong.

To break it down further
The steward knew, the steward didn't know.

How can you so surely say the steward knew the rules if he was wrong about how I wouldn't get the job back? So in your world this steward can be trusted? Yes or no?

Who is the one with the problem here? I still got my job, do you?

I was waiting for this.
For me, it's my first job, for you, it's probably your last. The worst part about playing the "I'm better than you" card in situations like this is, we both were in the same place.
But if you want to go further down this road, let's compare, how much do you make a year? Don't be scared now.

Everything. You just don't get it.

Your whole argument is the labor manager supposedly told you he was going to reduce your hours to zero if you didn't resign before he told you he was going to fire you.

Before you waste your money on a lawyer, you better ask your union steward, who was there, how he thinks the labor manager can reduce your hours to zero without firing you.

I'll tell you what your steward's going to say. He's going to say that he believed that if you didn't resign, the labor manager was going to fire you for sexual harassment.

Again, your argument is the faulty shop steward knew what he was talking about. And the labor manager isn't allowed to break the rules therefore he couldn't possibly break the rules. I might as well ask the blind guy to testify as he saw the whole thing. If you have EVER filed a grievance against a supe for a violation of the rules you are being disingenuous. If their argument was I'm not allowed to do that therefore I didn't do it you'd laugh them out of the state. Possibly off the planet.

I actually don't blame you. I blame your steward..

I agree with this.

 

[Sadman101]

Better luck next time in your grab ass endeavors, try not to do it at the work place

Some people are so sensitive. Lolol. You gotta do better than that, boyo.

Suppose you do "win"-----can you imagine the work environment if you got your job back due to a technicality?

It's more about principle at this point. Like, the president can say he grabs woman by the crotch and I make a joke to a guy who was joking about other equally bad , in a workplace where people talk like that all the time, where I've been talked to in the same exact way and CONSIDERABLY worse, including being physically touched, and I get disrespected like that? Just a betrayal.

Someone is going to have to explain something. I overlooked tons of nonsense and was a consistent worker, didn't miss a day for years. Respectful to everyone. And then because some fool gave me bad advice, after being assaulted, I'm out during peak? Someone has got to be held responsible in some way. I don't even care if it's the steward getting a class on how to advise people. I'm not interested in money, I just want this to not happen to anyone else. I didn't mention other details cause I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus. I didn't even report the guy who assaulted me.

Time to move on. Perhaps Dana White is hiring

He is always hiring, but I'm also not interested in tons of head trauma before my brain fully develops. Maybe when I'm 28. 3 more years.

If I had a nickel for every time I've heard that.

Lawyers have boat payments too.

A lawyer isn't even needed, just an option, if he doesn't think it's worth it, not a problem. I'm more interested in having someone accept some sort of fault and preventing this from happening to someone else.

 

[burrheadd]

Some people are so sensitive. Lolol. You gotta do better than that, boyo.

It's more about principle at this point. Like, the president can say he grabs woman by the crotch and I make a joke to a guy who was joking about other equally bad , in a workplace where people talk like that all the time, where I've been talked to in the same exact way and CONSIDERABLY worse, including being physically touched, and I get disrespected like that? Just a betrayal.

Someone is going to have to explain something. I overlooked tons of nonsense and was a consistent worker, didn't miss a day for years. Respectful to everyone. And then because some fool gave me bad advice, after being assaulted, I'm out during peak? Someone has got to be held responsible in some way. I don't even care if it's the steward getting a class on how to advise people. I'm not interested in money, I just want this to not happen to anyone else. I didn't mention other details cause I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus. I didn't even report the guy who assaulted me.


He is always hiring, but I'm also not interested in tons of head trauma before my brain fully develops. Maybe when I'm 28. 3 more years.
A lawyer isn't even needed, just an option, if he doesn't think it's worth it, not a problem. I'm more interested in having someone accept some sort of fault and preventing this from happening to someone else.

Your done time to move on

how long you going to keep whining about this?

 

[El Correcto]

Your done time to move on

how long you going to keep whining about this?

He is gonna be the new @rickyb

 

[Sadman101]

Your done time to move on

how long you going to keep whining about this?

You're*
As long as you've been on the forum.

Quick questions. Why do you even care? Ignore me and move on. Why waste time to tell me to stop whining? Does it make you feel good about yourself?
And tell that to the others responding too. They respond, I respond.

 

[burrheadd]

You're*
As long as you've been on the forum.

Quick questions. Why do you even care? Ignore me and move on. Why waste time to tell me to stop whining? Does it make you feel good about yourself?
And tell that to the others responding too. They respond, I respond.

my bad,keep doing you

if nothing else you are mildly entertaining

 

[oldngray]

 

[Sadman101]

my bad,keep doing you

if nothing else you are mildly entertaining

Thank you. My only goal has been achieved.

Don't worry though. Once the other dude acknowledges his dishonesty I'll be out of your hair. You can rule the forum.

View attachment 275872

Ayyyyy! Someone knows.

 

[burrheadd]

Once the other dude acknowledges his dishonesty

Lol

 

[Sadman101]

Lol

Dude, agree with him or not, he straight up pretended I was arguing points I never said. I even told him I agreed with him. So why was he arguing them? Dishonesty at it's finest.

 

[burrheadd]

Dude, agree with him or not, he straight up pretended I was arguing points I never said. I even told him I agreed with him. So why was he arguing them? Dishonesty at it's finest.

don’t care nobody here does

laughing at you not with you

 

[Integrity]

I’ll be back, I need to clean up my head justvexplo

Some people are so sensitive. Lolol. You gotta do better than that, boyo.

It's more about principle at this point. Like, the president can say he grabs woman by the crotch and I make a joke to a guy who was joking about other equally bad , in a workplace where people talk like that all the time, where I've been talked to in the same exact way and CONSIDERABLY worse, including being physically touched, and I get disrespected like that? Just a betrayal.

Someone is going to have to explain something. I overlooked tons of nonsense and was a consistent worker, didn't miss a day for years. Respectful to everyone. And then because some fool gave me bad advice, after being assaulted, I'm out during peak? Someone has got to be held responsible in some way. I don't even care if it's the steward getting a class on how to advise people. I'm not interested in money, I just want this to not happen to anyone else. I didn't mention other details cause I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus. I didn't even report the guy who assaulted me.


He is always hiring, but I'm also not interested in tons of head trauma before my brain fully develops. Maybe when I'm 28. 3 more years.
A lawyer isn't even needed, just an option, if he doesn't think it's worth it, not a problem. I'm more interested in having someone accept some sort of fault and preventing this from happening to someone else.

Good luck.

I would never have resigned.

As Shop Steward in situations where individuals had a choice I always said the choice was theirs but I would never resign. I would make the company discharge me.

 

[Sadman101]

don’t care nobody here does

laughing at you not with you

Says the guy responding, talking about others guys also responding. Ironic.

I’ll be back, I need to clean up my head justvexplo

Good luck.

I would never have resigned.

As Shop Steward in situations where individuals had a choice I always said the choice was theirs but I would never resign. I would make the company discharge me.

thanks for the insight.

 

[Mugarolla]

He should be given an award.... for all the time he's wasted in this thread.

I more did it more for everyone else, pointing out the fact that even though the Steward recommended something, don't take that as the Gospel. With something as serious and final as this, I would have called my BA, or had my Steward call my BA, to get his opinion before I did anything.

@Sadman101 just still doesn't understand that if he didn't resign, he was going to get fired. But, he still would have had a shot of getting his job back. But, the following is also true.

To everyone else reading this. If you resign, you are done. If they fire you, you still have a chance. But, there is still a risk of the discharge being upheld. If the discharge is upheld, and when applying for another job, and they ask you why you left UPS, what do you tell them? I was fired for sexual harassment? Good luck.

It was actually a tough choice, but I don't think what @Sadman101 did was blatant sexual harassment. I mean, we do work at a trucking company, where trucker humor is rampant. We are not in an office environment full of professional suits and skirts.

You still need to be careful what you say, but if it's borderline, the environment also comes into play for cases like this.

The threat was hours would be made ZERO if I didnt resign.

OK. One last time, because this may come down to semantics.

Whether or not the labor manager told you he would reduce your hours to zero may be irrelevant. I know what he meant, and so does everyone else, except you.

1. Did you resign because you thought that if you didn't, your hours would be reduced down to zero, but you would not have been fired?

2. Did you resign before the labor manager told you to resign or be fired?

See, I find this hard to believe, and so would a lawyer, a judge, an arbitrator, the NLRB, the DOL, the EEOC and every other agency that you could go to for help.

I believe that you knew, before you resigned, that if you did not resign, you were going to be fired.

And this is not an assumption on my part, this is exactly what you said, twice.

And UPS already knows who you are, I mean, how many people just resigned instead of being fired for sexual harassment. and they already have your statements that you made here on Brown Cafe.

Here, I'll help you remember what you said...

The labor director basically screamed at me to give him my badge and leave and be fired for sexual harrassment or resign after I asked for a day to think.

As I said to others, the labor director was demanding i give him my badge and leave and he wasnt going to schedule me and fire me for sexual harassment if I didn't resign.

What part of these two statements don't you understand.

You're only option is to claim that you resigned under duress. The only problem with that, is that you had Union representation right there counseling you on what to do.

It still could be a long shot, probably a one in a million, but go for it. I wish you no ill will, and I have already said before, I don't blame you, I blame your Steward for telling you to resign without him at least calling your BA first.

 

[trickpony1]

Did the other guy resign or get fired?
I forgot.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I more did it more for everyone else

That's the only reason (we) post on here.

I would have commented more earlier, but I just didn't buy the OP's entire premise.


Verbal and minor physical exchanges happen. It's the nature of the work environment.

Unless someone is seriously injured.... there are avenues "less than" discharge.



-Bug-

 

[Sadman101]

I more did it more for everyone else, pointing out the fact that even though the Steward recommended something, don't take that as the Gospel. With something as serious and final as this, I would have called my BA, or had my Steward call my BA, to get his opinion before I did anything.

@Sadman101 just still doesn't understand that if he didn't resign, he was going to get fired. But, he still would have had a shot of getting his job back. But, the following is also true.

To everyone else reading this. If you resign, you are done. If they fire you, you still have a chance. But, there is still a risk of the discharge being upheld. If the discharge is upheld, and when applying for another job, and they ask you why you left UPS, what do you tell them? I was fired for sexual harassment? Good luck.

It was actually a tough choice, but I don't think what @Sadman101 did was blatant sexual harassment. I mean, we do work at a trucking company, where trucker humor is rampant. We are not in an office environment full of professional suits and skirts.

You still need to be careful what you say, but if it's borderline, the environment also comes into play for cases like this.



OK. One last time, because this may come down to semantics.

Whether or not the labor manager told you he would reduce your hours to zero may be irrelevant. I know what he meant, and so does everyone else, except you.

1. Did you resign because you thought that if you didn't, your hours would be reduced down to zero, but you would not have been fired?

2. Did you resign before the labor manager told you to resign or be fired?

See, I find this hard to believe, and so would a lawyer, a judge, an arbitrator, the NLRB, the DOL, the EEOC and every other agency that you could go to for help.

I believe that you knew, before you resigned, that if you did not resign, you were going to be fired.

And this is not an assumption on my part, this is exactly what you said, twice.

And UPS already knows who you are, I mean, how many people just resigned instead of being fired for sexual harassment. and they already have your statements that you made here on Brown Cafe.

Here, I'll help you remember what you said...








What part of these two statements don't you understand.

You're only option is to claim that you resigned under duress. The only problem with that, is that you had Union representation right there counseling you on what to do.

It still could be a long shot, probably a one in a million, but go for it. I wish you no ill will, and I have already said before, I don't blame you, I blame your Steward for telling you to resign without him at least calling your BA first.

Well, time to come clean. I'm only working on second hand, and third hand, information for an acquaintance who is having troubles. But I've heard that he simply doesn't care to proceed with anything so this is all just a waste of time. Thanks for the good information everyone.

Props to the guy who called out the fact that I said "I" resigned basically as I made the thread. Nearly caught me. Even if the kid tried to get a lawyer, all the posts here were made at a time he was either in a meeting with them or while working at another job. So all my information was based in what heard from other workers.

But, all that being said, Mugarolla, you gotta learn how to debate, you don't need to scream people agree with as your defense. Or accuse them of saying stuff they never did. If you take anything away from this, let it be that.

 

[Mugarolla]

Verbal and minor physical exchanges happen. It's the nature of the work environment.

Unless someone is seriously injured.... there are avenues "less than" discharge.

Agreed. And in this case, I would have given him a 95% chance of getting his job back had he allowed them to fire him.

Or accuse them of saying stuff they never did.

Never did. I only responded to the exact wording in the posts without screaming or shouting. In fact, I even typed real slowly so that you could follow along.

Glad it wasn't you, that you still have your job, and kudos for trying to help a friend.

Never claimed to be a teacher, and sometimes my "advice" does not seem to come out as I intended. But here, I think we all agree that your friend knew he was going to be discharged if he didn't resign, and he knew this fact before he actually resigned.