Ground guy I spoke to Tuesday said that he has seen and delivered overnight letters from New York. FedEx has to run tests to see the feasibility of changing over to a contractor model. The logistics have to be worked out, takes time. Question is what kind of timetable are they on to make it happen?
More UpClose RLA Video Lies from FedEx
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
Ground guy I spoke to Tuesday said that he has seen and delivered overnight letters from New York. FedEx has to run tests to see the feasibility of changing over to a contractor model. The logistics have to be worked out, takes time. Question is what kind of timetable are they on to make it happen?
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Amazing how Mr Smith applies P-S-P, isn't it? Like I said, where are all of those roller-bed Ground trailers hiding for now? Perhaps if we knew, some of the doubters would be convinced that Fred is getting ready to take it to us again. If he gets his RLA deal, there is absolutely nothing stopping him. We've been stupid and passive for way too long already.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
It has been awhile since I posted, but after reading a bunch of dribble posted by Fred’s resident apologist, I just had to chime in…. I’m not going to be nice, because someone as disingenuous as this resident apologist deserves no civility.
Apologist: “I’m not defending FedEx, per se.”
Then attempt to describe what you are doing here. You’re not a Courier (now at least), not a manager by your own admission. So what are you doing spending so much time here? Why is everything you post a carefully crafted manipulation of standard FedEx corporate talking points handed out to the media and its own employees? We (speaking for the Couriers, RTDs and Ramp Agents) get plenty of the corporate dribble every month – it is mandatory. We all have to watch the monthly propaganda, participate in the SFA farce (results are being buried from what I’m hearing), and attend useless station meetings where the managers do their dog and pony show regarding the corporate topic du jour.
Apologist: Sure, part time employees are being pressured, but not that many…
Please, give it a rest. After having read your various attempts at misdirection and subterfuge, you have clearly made your position known. You’ve been with FedEx for awhile, you like where you are at and having the hourly employees unionize would threaten your career – we got it. If Fred loses the RLA exemption, you will be terminated from your PR position??? I believe you when you state you are not a manager – they are either too busy worrying about their careers (and wouldn’t have the time or inclination to post here) or don’t have the capability to write a cohesive paragraph in my experience…
You were once an hourly employee got out of the trenches and now have a nice salaried staff position in the bloated “professional” occupations of FedEx. Why you spend the time constantly posting here is a mystery – unless you have some ulterior motive.
Part time employees – being one myself, are constantly pressured to take additional volume. The pressure to make time commitment and minimize overtime for full-time employees results in station managers placing calls to the PM part-time employees to come in to work to get out volume on regular basis. The AM part-timers are loaded up with volumes equivalent to full-time employees more often than not solely to minimize any overtime pay to the full timers. It is so bad that full-timers are deliberately “miscounting” their stop counts to keep their volume up – to get a bit of overtime – to prevent having a day with less than 8 hours on the clock (they need to make a living at doing this after all). The part-timers end up pulling a 6 or 7 hour day while the full timer ends up with just less than 8 hours in many cases. When volumes are low, the full timers are loaded up to make sure they’ll be on the clock for at least 7 hours and the part-timers are left with a few P1 stops and given instructions to “hurry back now” – FedEx will get their 2 hours out of them, rest assured. FedEx doesn’t give any freebies out to it employees, not pens, not a decent Christmas party and definitely not pay – Fred’s heart can only take so much. Have employees paid for time not actually worked… call 911, Fred is clutching his chest.
Your equivocation that “… doesn’t mean that most part time employees are intensely pressured to work.” holds true only because the careful choice of your words. Most aren’t “intensely” pressured, only moderately pressured. (Just want to be fair here…). It is good to know that one lives in a country where most employees can’t be intensely pressured, only moderately pressured, and only occasionally… I definitely wouldn’t want to live somewhere where most employees could be intensely pressured most of the time after all…
In the not too distant past I was given the option of either accepting additional work or taking a warning letter for failure to follow instructions of management. I nearly quit on the spot, but decided that I could do more damage to FedEx while still an employee than as an unemployed grad student. Policies have changed from the past where part-time employees couldn’t be forced to work outside a certain limit beyond their scheduled work hours (full-timers were and are owned by FedEx). This is no longer the case. So please stow your assertion that employees aren’t “intensely” pressured to work additional hours when not desired.
Apologist: A part-timer can go home if there is no work and get paid for 2 hours, and if this happens repeatedly over a week, they can do absolutely nothing and get paid for 17.5 hours.
Put down your crack pipe and open up the bathroom window, you are in fantasy land.
Every manager knows the hours their part-timers are scheduled for and if they fall below 4 hours in a given day, they keep an eye on the hours. If they are even remotely near working only 17.5 hours in a week they are given additional duties (clean trucks, do sort set-up, go out and stock drop boxes). Getting paid for even 5 minutes of minimums in a week is a fluke – and that employee’s manager will be all over them like white on rice to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Everyone that has a schedule that comes close to 17.5 scheduled hours knows well enough to make sure they do something to keep from even getting near the 17.5 mark in a week.
Apologist: There is no reason for FedEx to hire a part-time employee over a full time employee… (Then the equivocation) Unless that is what you need?
Comment on choice of pronouns first off… What “you” need. Certainly sounds like the point of view, frame of reference, opinion (name your literary device) of someone that is nowhere near that of being a wage employee, but rather someone that say in HR, or process engineering????
Well let’s see, you state you’ve done scheduling, so let’s take the exercise one step further – cost per hours worked. If “I” have (taking the point of view of a process engineer) a typical volume in an area to keep two full-time employees busy, then decide to convert one of those full-time positions to two part-time positions, what will happen?
The guaranteed hours are exactly equal – 2 times 35 versus 1times 35 plus 2 times 17.5, so no additional incurred expense there. There is one additional employee, so there is the issue of benefits for that additional employee – additional expense there. However, part-time turn-over is definitely higher than full-time turnover, so the actual hourly wages paid to the part-timers will be less, so the additional expense in benefits is more than offset with a reduction in wages. The “risk” of unionization is reduced since part-timers aren’t looking to make waves; just get in and out is what they do, so there is an un-quantified benefit there. There is the extra expense of additional training that goes along with increased turn-over, but that is recoverable after a couple of months of that part-timer working at the lower wage rate.
Then there is the issue of overtime. With 2 full-timers, I can only get 80 hours a week scheduled without any overtime being paid. With 1 full-timer and 2 part-timers, I can easily get 90 hours scheduled with no overtime being paid and if “I” give the operations managers instructions to apply some “moderate” pressure (wouldn’t want to apply intense pressure) to the two part-timers to work 30 hours a week, “I” (in my capacity of process engineer) can get 100 hours worked and not pay any overtime. If “I” had just 2 full-timers, “I’d” be paying out wages for 110 hours to get 100 hours worked (and at a “premium” wage rate). With the part-timers taking the place of a full-timer, “I” can get 100 hours of work performed, pay no overtime premium and 60 of those 100 hours will be paid at a lower wage rate. Get it now…
Apologist: Years ago I used to do the schedule; until they wouldn’t let hourly employees do it.
On this one I’ll have to claim the possibility of ignorance and equivocate. In other words, I can’t claim authoritative knowledge here. The reason I state this is because at my location, right now, 2010, an hourly employee does ALL of the scheduling for the station. This may be against FedEx policy, so I can’t state for certain if it is now against corporate policy for hourly employees to do the scheduling (and process the requests for time off while they are at it).
Apologist: “Just hire a full time employee, which is what happens, more often than not in my experience.”
Just got to love those equivocations… More often than not… In my experience... Well that is certainly definitive and authoritative.
Apologist: “I’m not defending FedEx, per se.”
Then attempt to describe what you are doing here. You’re not a Courier (now at least), not a manager by your own admission. So what are you doing spending so much time here? Why is everything you post a carefully crafted manipulation of standard FedEx corporate talking points handed out to the media and its own employees? We (speaking for the Couriers, RTDs and Ramp Agents) get plenty of the corporate dribble every month – it is mandatory. We all have to watch the monthly propaganda, participate in the SFA farce (results are being buried from what I’m hearing), and attend useless station meetings where the managers do their dog and pony show regarding the corporate topic du jour.
Apologist: Sure, part time employees are being pressured, but not that many…
Please, give it a rest. After having read your various attempts at misdirection and subterfuge, you have clearly made your position known. You’ve been with FedEx for awhile, you like where you are at and having the hourly employees unionize would threaten your career – we got it. If Fred loses the RLA exemption, you will be terminated from your PR position??? I believe you when you state you are not a manager – they are either too busy worrying about their careers (and wouldn’t have the time or inclination to post here) or don’t have the capability to write a cohesive paragraph in my experience…
You were once an hourly employee got out of the trenches and now have a nice salaried staff position in the bloated “professional” occupations of FedEx. Why you spend the time constantly posting here is a mystery – unless you have some ulterior motive.
Part time employees – being one myself, are constantly pressured to take additional volume. The pressure to make time commitment and minimize overtime for full-time employees results in station managers placing calls to the PM part-time employees to come in to work to get out volume on regular basis. The AM part-timers are loaded up with volumes equivalent to full-time employees more often than not solely to minimize any overtime pay to the full timers. It is so bad that full-timers are deliberately “miscounting” their stop counts to keep their volume up – to get a bit of overtime – to prevent having a day with less than 8 hours on the clock (they need to make a living at doing this after all). The part-timers end up pulling a 6 or 7 hour day while the full timer ends up with just less than 8 hours in many cases. When volumes are low, the full timers are loaded up to make sure they’ll be on the clock for at least 7 hours and the part-timers are left with a few P1 stops and given instructions to “hurry back now” – FedEx will get their 2 hours out of them, rest assured. FedEx doesn’t give any freebies out to it employees, not pens, not a decent Christmas party and definitely not pay – Fred’s heart can only take so much. Have employees paid for time not actually worked… call 911, Fred is clutching his chest.
Your equivocation that “… doesn’t mean that most part time employees are intensely pressured to work.” holds true only because the careful choice of your words. Most aren’t “intensely” pressured, only moderately pressured. (Just want to be fair here…). It is good to know that one lives in a country where most employees can’t be intensely pressured, only moderately pressured, and only occasionally… I definitely wouldn’t want to live somewhere where most employees could be intensely pressured most of the time after all…
In the not too distant past I was given the option of either accepting additional work or taking a warning letter for failure to follow instructions of management. I nearly quit on the spot, but decided that I could do more damage to FedEx while still an employee than as an unemployed grad student. Policies have changed from the past where part-time employees couldn’t be forced to work outside a certain limit beyond their scheduled work hours (full-timers were and are owned by FedEx). This is no longer the case. So please stow your assertion that employees aren’t “intensely” pressured to work additional hours when not desired.
Apologist: A part-timer can go home if there is no work and get paid for 2 hours, and if this happens repeatedly over a week, they can do absolutely nothing and get paid for 17.5 hours.
Put down your crack pipe and open up the bathroom window, you are in fantasy land.
Every manager knows the hours their part-timers are scheduled for and if they fall below 4 hours in a given day, they keep an eye on the hours. If they are even remotely near working only 17.5 hours in a week they are given additional duties (clean trucks, do sort set-up, go out and stock drop boxes). Getting paid for even 5 minutes of minimums in a week is a fluke – and that employee’s manager will be all over them like white on rice to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Everyone that has a schedule that comes close to 17.5 scheduled hours knows well enough to make sure they do something to keep from even getting near the 17.5 mark in a week.
Apologist: There is no reason for FedEx to hire a part-time employee over a full time employee… (Then the equivocation) Unless that is what you need?
Comment on choice of pronouns first off… What “you” need. Certainly sounds like the point of view, frame of reference, opinion (name your literary device) of someone that is nowhere near that of being a wage employee, but rather someone that say in HR, or process engineering????
Well let’s see, you state you’ve done scheduling, so let’s take the exercise one step further – cost per hours worked. If “I” have (taking the point of view of a process engineer) a typical volume in an area to keep two full-time employees busy, then decide to convert one of those full-time positions to two part-time positions, what will happen?
The guaranteed hours are exactly equal – 2 times 35 versus 1times 35 plus 2 times 17.5, so no additional incurred expense there. There is one additional employee, so there is the issue of benefits for that additional employee – additional expense there. However, part-time turn-over is definitely higher than full-time turnover, so the actual hourly wages paid to the part-timers will be less, so the additional expense in benefits is more than offset with a reduction in wages. The “risk” of unionization is reduced since part-timers aren’t looking to make waves; just get in and out is what they do, so there is an un-quantified benefit there. There is the extra expense of additional training that goes along with increased turn-over, but that is recoverable after a couple of months of that part-timer working at the lower wage rate.
Then there is the issue of overtime. With 2 full-timers, I can only get 80 hours a week scheduled without any overtime being paid. With 1 full-timer and 2 part-timers, I can easily get 90 hours scheduled with no overtime being paid and if “I” give the operations managers instructions to apply some “moderate” pressure (wouldn’t want to apply intense pressure) to the two part-timers to work 30 hours a week, “I” (in my capacity of process engineer) can get 100 hours worked and not pay any overtime. If “I” had just 2 full-timers, “I’d” be paying out wages for 110 hours to get 100 hours worked (and at a “premium” wage rate). With the part-timers taking the place of a full-timer, “I” can get 100 hours of work performed, pay no overtime premium and 60 of those 100 hours will be paid at a lower wage rate. Get it now…
Apologist: Years ago I used to do the schedule; until they wouldn’t let hourly employees do it.
On this one I’ll have to claim the possibility of ignorance and equivocate. In other words, I can’t claim authoritative knowledge here. The reason I state this is because at my location, right now, 2010, an hourly employee does ALL of the scheduling for the station. This may be against FedEx policy, so I can’t state for certain if it is now against corporate policy for hourly employees to do the scheduling (and process the requests for time off while they are at it).
Apologist: “Just hire a full time employee, which is what happens, more often than not in my experience.”
Just got to love those equivocations… More often than not… In my experience... Well that is certainly definitive and authoritative.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
You need to verify if this was overnight or second/third day. I know that FedEx Corporation is working on getting an engineering plan into place for Ground to deliver non-P1 volume, but NOT P1 volume. This plan has been working up for the past couple of years in earnest (very quietly though, shhhh!). If the delivery was within the NY metro area (both PU and DEL location in NY metro), overnight was definately not an impossibility, but outside the engineering plan as I know it.
Everyone should now have at their location the new "Powerpads" that have LAN capability and indicate if the van scan that is being placed on the package is correct for the route entered into the device during pre-work. This is just the lastest step (look at some of my posts going back a year) in Express' move to get rid of need to have "Courier knowledge" on the AM sort. The next step will be to implement either a stop order indicator on the yellow RTE label (meaning that handlers can load a truck) or the capability of one device (and non-Courier employee) scanning and loading a truck, then downloading that info into the Couriers device (which wouldn't need to actually perform the scan), but whose end of day versus report would definately indicate if they didn't POD a piece.
Everyone should now have at their location the new "Powerpads" that have LAN capability and indicate if the van scan that is being placed on the package is correct for the route entered into the device during pre-work. This is just the lastest step (look at some of my posts going back a year) in Express' move to get rid of need to have "Courier knowledge" on the AM sort. The next step will be to implement either a stop order indicator on the yellow RTE label (meaning that handlers can load a truck) or the capability of one device (and non-Courier employee) scanning and loading a truck, then downloading that info into the Couriers device (which wouldn't need to actually perform the scan), but whose end of day versus report would definately indicate if they didn't POD a piece.
Ricochet, please don't take this the wrong way, but you are not very good at "not going to be nice", and I really don't think you are capable of not being civil, at least not in such a way as to generate any feelings of animosity. Your arguments are well thought out, well written, and quite persuasive. I think you and others here are wrong to charaterize Fred and the company are some kind of evil puppet master attempting to enslave the American worker and your objectivity does become blurred at times. But even then I think you and I agree on the ultimate path that Fedex is on but disagree about the positive or negative ramifications of that direction. Regardless of the disagreement it is refreshing to read a civil and and well crafted argument.
The guy who told me that is a multiple route owner in east Texas. He claimed he has seen letters sent overnight from New York. As the New York area generates the most volume of any metro area in the country it makes sense that if they were testing the viability of such a plan New York would be the logical origin. But I certainly hope that if they restructure things we are at least able to still make a living as part-timers. Knowing FedEx I'd be shocked if they paid us anymore than current pay if they forced us into part-time.
Which makes me wonder: can they legally force us into part-time status if we are classified as permanent fulltime employees? Or will it be like Walmart, where 32 hrs is considered fulltime? Not certain but I think legally part-time is considered 30 hrs or less.
Last edited:
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I may be mistaken but I think the classification of full time and part time and the hours associated with each varies from state to state.
Let's apply a little common sense to this to see it cannot be true. The closest major market in Texas to NY is Dallas. It's about 1600 miles between the two. How in the world are you going to move an overnight letter via Ground 1600 miles overnight? Do you really believe that Express is picking up these letters, moving them via normal methods and then somehow giving them to Ground the next morning? It's not happening. More than likely the person you spoke with has delivered Ground shipments that happened to be in Express Overnight Letter envelopes.
And Express gets letters sent in packaging of other carriers, including Ground. But the date on the airbill is what matters. I wasn't there, just having a discussion on my lunch break. He told me that if we unionized he believed FedEx would go the contractor model. I said maybe, but it could take years to organize. He said no, he's seeing Express pkgs coming through Ground now. I said maybe E-2 or Express Saver, he says no, he's seen several letters overnighted from New York, delivered one himself. I don't know how, just telling you what a 10 year contractor who owns 4 rts told me. Whatever happens, are you telling me that FedEx won't examine every available option and conduct tests? Think they'll just have a lightbulb go off over their heads and announce that tomorrow we are going to run things a new way? If Obama signs a bill with the NLRA language in it, do you think FedEx will be completely caught by surprise, or is it just possible they've had a war room going over every possible scenario for some time now? And when they come up with something they like do you think they run it by top notch lawyers to make sure it's doable? One thing about all the lawsuits around the country. They've made FedEx much smarter about what they can and can't do. They've stumbled in the past, but not so much lately.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Why not? FedEx could easily continue to move overnight products via air and then truck them to Ground facilities from the ramp for delivery. This would be on explanation for all of those roller-bed Ground trailers that can only be used to transport containers. This would also explain the container lift and ballmat systems at some Ground facilities. It also indicates that FedEx has been planning this type of maneuver for quite awhile. More P-S-P at work. (Please provide corporate explanation/deflection/lie at this time). Maybe you know where they've stashed all of those trailers so nobody knows what's going on. Did they blank-out the logos?
Man. A year ago everyone on this site was saying I was crazy for just these same observations.
Obviously the shipments you are talking about would have to move by air. So do you really believe that once the Express shipments got to Texas, they were pulled aside and given to Ground? You don't think that some employees would notice and say something? If they are pro-FedEx employees, they are going to want to know where the packages are going to make sure they are delivered on time. If they are anti-FedEx employees they are going to want to know where the packages are going and would be the first to cry foul.
No I'm not telling you that and never implied I was. In fact, I agree with you 100%. I'm quite sure FedEx has a plan should Express move under the NLRA.
See my response to vantexan. As for the Ground trailers, I've no idea. Never heard about them until you brought them up.
Not only have they not stumbled, but they have a fairly fail-safe solution in the ISP (Independent Service Provider) model. Also, seems they've been winning in court lately.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Just curious. Is there a container lift and ballmat at your sort facility? And are you familiar with the Ground trailers I'm talking about? This has been Fred's plan for a long time. You and I just disagree on whether he can pull it off or not.
So they tell employees loading containers to set aside into demi any pkgs marked with.....then tell part-time guys, probably college kid age, to pull aside at ramp a particular container and load in Ground truck over there...what do these people care? I wasn't there, only know what I was told, figure FedEx is in process of developing contingency plans in case it needs to change how it operates. Gee, if even part-time ramp employees are looking for things to blow the whistle on then I can see why the company is trying so hard to retain the RLA classification. I have a solution for the loyalists. Turn in lists of suspected NLRA sympathizers. The company can require them to wear large yellow stars on their uniforms so that those loyal to the Reich can quickly identify them and thus not be subjected to having to spend time around them. And the loyalists can wear those neat steel toed jackboots too!
By stumbling I mean they have done things that cost them in court, but as I said, not so much lately. They have learned from their mistakes. I'm guessing anything they do in the future will be airtight legally. I don't know how familiar you are with FedEx history, but they have made major mistakes like Zapmail which have cost them hundreds of millions of dollars. They stopped giving raises in the 90's due to IMO the desire to make up the money they lost. IMO this started this downhill trend of lower pay and less benefits. It's not that they are just screwing us arbitrarily, they learned that the employees can be a source of profit enhancement. And I truly believe they've justified in their minds that if we take away this, or restrict that, well they really don't need this or that, they're fine as is, we don't want to spoil them, etc. They've taken it too far and they know it. Fighting the NLRA language is simply trying to avoid getting smacked for their excess, not some noble stand to protect the shipping public.
Do you buy the aluminum foil one roll at a time or do you buy it in bulk at Costco?
ROFLMAO! Surely you can do better than that!
