New Orleans

[ok2bclever]

I thought that was an excellent, informed and pretty non-biased article link
wkmac, thank you.

Frankly, I don't think bush did much wrong personally in this fiasco, I think the only major thing he did wrong was in his choice of the lightweight he put in charge of FEMA.

I think Brown was a typical political reward posting (which all political parties do) rather than a competent or experienced choice.

The guy is an ethics lawyer and was kicked out of being the head of an Arabian horse association for alledged mishandling of affairs and this is the guy who was put in charge of FEMA!?!

Brown isn't criminal (although some of the dead in New Orleans might differ on that terminology), just incompetent and should step down or be fired.

I don't think this was handled well by many in authority and Congress will need to investigate, remove from office those who showed they were not up to their assigned jobs, learn and fix what went wrong for future national emergencies.

 

[tieguy]

Interestingly enough New Orleans now has another "mandatory evacuation" ordered. When questioned on whether they will enforce it they again dodge the bullet by saying they still have people who want to voluntarilly leave.

If the mayor had enforced a mandatory evacuation he had ordered before the hurricane the loss and post storm aggravation would have been a lot less.

Ultimately the pre storm evacuation has to be the focus of future fixes. This event would have turned out so much better with a good evacuation of nawlins.

 

[ups_vette]

A few random thoughts;

1. Tie, Perhaps you were asleep during your American History class. It was the French, not the Spanish who settled New Orleans. Which at the time was NOT below sea level. The reason it's below sea level today is due to the elimination of surrounding wet lands by urban development, which caused the Mississippi River to deposit sediment in the former wet lands, raising the ground level all around New Orleans. This also eliminated the barrior islands between the Gulf of Mexico and New Orleans, allowing Hurricanes to hit the ctiy full force without a land mass to reduce the force of the winds.

2. Lets examine the actions of our President, George W:

Sunday August 28th-- While Hurricane Katrina was rushing towards the Gulf Coast as Cat 5, W was "working hard" clearing brush on the Lazy W Ranch and having a BBQ with a few friends.

Monday August 29th-- As Katrina rushed ashore as a Cat 4 into Mississippi, Louisanna, and Alabama W boarded Air Force One and flew directly to Arizona for a town meeting on Social Security.

Tuesday August 30th-- After the levies burst and flooded the City of New Orleans, W again boarded Air Force One and flew directly to San Diego, Ca. This was to comemorate the ending of WWll. An interesting side note to this is W's Handlers made sure an Aircraft Carrier in harbour was not in the background to remind people of W's "MISSION ACOMPLISHED" speach after the fall of Sadam Husin.

W's actions, or lack of, remind people of his actions when he sat for 7 minutes reading to school children after being told we were attacked on 911.

 

[moreluck]

The states involved needed to ask for federal help.....that's the way it's designed. The mayors & governors in all the involved cities dropped the ball and that's where the blame should start.

Why weren't all of those school busses put into action to evacuate folks BEFORE the hurricane under a marshal law of some sort. N.O. didn't even realize the immensity of the hit 'til the flooding began....then it was too late.

If we now don't like the design of the way the system is set up, they can go about changing it, but that doesn't help the crisis now.

 

[crappie]

UPS vette sorry you are wrong the spanish settled it first then came the french .

 

[susiedriver]

Moreluck,

Gov Blanco isued a State Of Emergency Friday Aug 26. Bush issued one Saturday Aug 27 fo LA and Sunday Aug 28 for MS.

From The Whitehouse Aug 28:
THE PRESIDENT: This morning I spoke with FEMA Undersecretary Mike Brown and emergency management teams not only at the federal level but at the state level about the -- Hurricane Katrina. I've also spoken to Governor Blanco of Louisiana, Governor Barbour of Mississippi, Governor Bush of Florida, and Governor Riley of Alabama. I want to thank all the folks at the federal level and the state level and the local level who have taken this storm seriously. I appreciate the efforts of the governors to prepare their citizenry for this upcoming storm.
Yesterday, I signed a disaster declaration for the state of Louisiana, and this morning I signed a disaster declaration for the state of Mississippi. These declarations will allow federal agencies to coordinate all disaster relief efforts with state and local officials. We will do everything in our power to help the people in the communities affected by this storm

Maybe we should be asking what the meaning of 'all' is.

 

[susiedriver]

crappie,

From Wikipedia:
New Orleans was founded in 1718 by the French as La Nouvelle-Orlans, under the direction of Jean-Baptiste Le Moyne de Bienville. The site was selected because it was a rare bit of natural high ground along the flood-prone banks of the lower Mississippi, and was adjacent to a Native American trading route and portage between the Mississippi and Lake Pontchartrain via Bayou St. John (known to the natives as Bayou Choupique). A community of French fur trappers and traders had existed along the bayou (in what is now the middle of New Orleans) for at least a decade before the official founding of the city. Nouvelle-Orlans became the capital of French Louisiana in 1722, replacing Biloxi in that role.

In 1763, the colony was ceded to the Spanish Empire

 

[moreluck]

Try to voice an opinion and you get crap stuffed down your throat!!

That's why it's not even worth bothering to post an opinion if you have one.

Thus the answer to you racist thingy from before....plenty of people were disgusted by avatars, but were afraid to open their mouths (thoughts) cause you'll just tramp them down. Nice job Susie-know-it-all!!

 

[susiedriver]

Sorry to muddy the water, moreluck. Facts seem to do that around here.

 

[ok2bclever]

While I don't necessarily agree with all of susie's posts or thoughts she is usually polite about them unlike several of her attackers.

She states opinions which you can agree or disagree with, but her links are almost always interesting and pertinent.

I think her most grievious sin on this board is to put the word bush and anything negative together as that really fries the give me bush or give me death fanatics to the lynching level.

susie does do her homework and it is interesting that you use "know it all" as a negative connotation.

Facts do mostly cause problems with favored emotional attachments and beliefs.

That said, bush didn't do that much wrong in my opinion in this crisis beyond a few pr gaffs and he actually did many things right.

I think the president excels in appearing confident after a crisis, just like he did after 9/11.

As FEMA was the official unit of goverment that was supposed to control and oversee the national crisis most of the blame must go to them and hence to their head, Brownie, but that will be congress's responsibility to investigate, hold responsible those that failed and make sure they fix what failed so it doesn't happen again.

It was

 

[crappie]

Sighted by the Spanish in 1519, Louisiana was first explored by Panfilo de NARVAEZ of Spain, who navigated its coast in 1528. Later, Robert Cavalier, sieur de LA SALLE, named the region Louisiana in honor of the French king Louis XIV

 

[ok2bclever]

The issue wasn't who floated by or put foot on land first.

It was who settled it and who built the town.

If you discount the native Americans in the area the French first settled and named the town and the Spanish came in and had a lot to do with the growth and expansion of the town.

The mix was the beginning of what they call Creole now.

It originally was founded on high ground and was near all this great water transport, the Mississippi, the Gulf of Mexico and Lake Ponchatrain.

It was an ideal and intelligent location.

The steady sinking of the area and erosion of the protective marshes, barrier island chain, etc has steadily made is seem like a dumb and dumber location for a town and it is, but it still is a great location for commerce and transportation due to the same reasons it was originally, perhaps more so.

That doesn't mean it is a good location for residential development though.

 

[susiedriver]

FWIW,

One of the more intelligent articles I've read recently:
http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=19806

 

[tieguy]

Ah Ok you are correct in that Suzie does find many interesting links. Most are from less than credible sources. To me this does not support her position in fact it usually confuses her point. I thought you might have noticed this point since in so doing Suzie chose to ignore your very credible link from none other than the national geographic which tended to dispute her point at the time. She also chose to ignore the 205 school buses that disputed her point that New Orleans did not have the means to evacuate. In fact suzie has been shot down quite often and usually then muddys the water by posting another link form another less than credible source in a hope of changing the direction of this thread.

 

[tieguy]

As often happens when someone like suzie fails to do her homework you get selective misinformation as she posted before. To start with the history of New Orleans you have to start with the history of Louisiana well before the time period suzie chose to reference. The below is from the state of Louisiana.

"Located in the southeastern United States, Louisiana lies entirely within the Gulf Coastal Plain. It is shaped like a capital L, approximately 530 km (330 mi) at its widest, and about 450 km (280 mi) from north to south. Louisiana is bordered by Mississippi on the east, the Gulf of Mexico on the south, Texas on the west, and Arkansas on the north. Sighted by the Spanish in 1519, Louisiana was first explored by Panfilo de NARVAEZ of Spain, who navigated its coast in 1528. Later, Robert Cavalier, sieur de LA SALLE, named the region Louisiana in honor of the French king Louis XIV, claiming it for France in 1682."

 

[tieguy]

"Which at the time was NOT below sea level. The reason it's below sea level today is due to the elimination of surrounding wet lands by urban development, which caused the Mississippi River to deposit sediment in the former wet lands, raising the ground level all around New Orleans. This also eliminated the barrior islands between the Gulf of Mexico and New Orleans, allowing Hurricanes to hit the ctiy full force without a land mass to reduce the force of the winds."

Vette,
You appear to be trying to dispute my point but yet you end up supporting it. bad spot for a city. Bad spot to rebuild.I don't know about you folks but one cat 4 hurricane is enough for me to learn this lesson.

 

[tieguy]

"W's actions, or lack of, remind people of his actions when he sat for 7 minutes reading to school children after being told we were attacked on 911."

vette I will conceed the calendar of events you listed since it sounds like things a president would be doing on a daily basis. In so listing you appear to be trying to pin all this on bush. I think you need to have a different calendar to do so. Who did what when. When did the governor ask for federal help. When did each burrough that complained about not recieving help ask for it and when did the state pass this request for help on to the feds.

I have said it before and I will say it again. The president and all the players at fema were in place and have experienced many hurricane events last year. What is different with this event this year. Why is it Mississippi had a lot less problems even though they took the brunt of the storm? What is the process for asking for help and why is it some states seem to make it work so much better than Louisiana?

 

[susiedriver]

tie,

most of your questions don't deserve an wnswer, but this one, I'll take a shot at:

I have said it before and I will say it again. The president and all the players at fema were in place and have experienced many hurricane events last year. What is different with this event this year.

Answer---An election.

 

[susiedriver]

tie,

you should really learn to read. Crappie said NOLA was settled by the Spanish first.

If there are mistakes in wikipedia, you are free to correct them. It is a good source for facts. Reading comprehension it can't help with.

 

[crappie]

I just happen to like history spain explored se usa all the way down the coast line to the tip of south america.They did have a tradeing post if you like, settlement at the mouth of the mississppi .They were tradeing with the native americans.