Only 5% of next car purchasers expect to buy all electric cars-Road and Track.

[wilberforce15]

Ford hopes, and won't achieve, making an annualized rate of 150k Lightnings by end of 2023. They don't have the buildings or the batteries for it.

Tesla will sell 3-4 million vehicles in 2023, and have a single factory making half a million cybertrucks before Ford even reaches that goal.

 

[Brownsocks]

All other manufacturers are hopelessly behind in technology and efficiency. Ford cannot even hope to compete at this point. The stock pump and news bump from the announcement is just that - meaningless pumps.

Tesla has a supply chain, all the way down to materials, and purpose-built factories, that Ford can only dream of. And it's still the number 1 chosen destination for the nation's best engineering graduates. The gap is big and getting bigger.

Ford has over 2 decades of battery r&d and SK along with an equity stake in Solid State which I hope make batteries more relevant

 

[wilberforce15]

Ford has over 2 decades of battery r&d and SK along with an equity stake in Solid State which I hope make batteries more relevant

Their 2 decades of battery R&D are hopelessly behind. That's why they are selling pitiful EV's while Musk made a million of them this year.

And even as they catch up on technology, their real problem is production. Making an EV is an entirely different game. Tesla invented that entire game. From Tesla inventing and using the biggest presses in the world to eliminating hundreds of unnecessary parts, production is where Ford is totally lost. The gap in engineering talent, materials pipeline, etc. is a Grand Canyon.

 

[DriverNerd]

Ford hopes, and won't achieve, making an annualized rate of 150k Lightnings by end of 2023. They don't have the buildings or the batteries for it.

Maybe, but that is one impressive looking vehicle. They're going to sell boatloads of them.

 

[wilberforce15]

Maybe, but that is one impressive looking vehicle. They're going to sell boatloads of them.

It's a great vehicle. But they can only sell the number they can make.

 

[DriverNerd]

It's a great vehicle. But they can only sell the number they can make.

I think that's an issue every vehicle manufacturer would love to have.

 

[Brownsocks]

Ford invented mass production and they are building a zero emission 6 sq mile plant in Tennessee to build ev. They also have partnerships with BMW and many other legacy automakers and they are all are working on Teslas share. Ford and GM had a successful 10 speed auto collaboration and I wouldnt rule out those two launching future ev projects together.

Tesla has too many launch delays and walkways while Ford is out here announcing and actually producing vehicles that appeal to more Americans. It's only a matter of time...

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/09/27/ford-to-lead-americas-shift-to-electric-vehicles.html

 

[wilberforce15]

I think that's an issue every vehicle manufacturer would love to have.

Not really. They'll sell them all. But scaling EV production is a bigger nightmare than any of the traditional manufacturers have acknowledged. One company has already mastered it.

Soon eough, EV's will effectively be the entire car market, and Tesla is starting out with a lead in experience and facilities that can only get bigger. Traditional manufacturers need to quit playing footsie with EV's, toss everything aside, and throw all chips on that table immediately if they even want to be around in a decade.

 

[wilberforce15]

Ford invented mass production and they are building a zero emission 6 sq mile plant in Tennessee to build ev. They also have partnerships with BMW and many other legacy automakers and they are all are working on Teslas share. Ford and GM had a successful 10 speed auto collaboration and I wouldnt rule out those two launching future ev projects together.

Tesla has too many launch delays and walkways while Ford is out here announcing and actually producing vehicles that appeal to more Americans. It's only a matter of time...

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/09/27/ford-to-lead-americas-shift-to-electric-vehicles.html

And yet, Ford's own most optimistic projections have them selling 1/20th the EV's of Tesla in 3 years.

 

[Brownsocks]

And yet, Ford's own most optimistic projections have them selling 1/20th the EV's of Tesla in 3 years.

Now do Honda Toyota GM and the Germans. Their market share* will get devoured soon enough

 

[wilberforce15]

Now do Honda Toyota GM and the Germans. Their markets have will get devoured soon enough

You just don't understand. Yes, all of them together might equal Tesla's share.

That is, if the traditional manufacturers all work together and throw everything they can at it, they may limit Tesla to only owning half of the entire EV market.

 

[wilberforce15]

"The big boys are coming" has been thrown at Tesla for a decade.

And their numerical lead in EV sales has grown every single year.

 

[Brownsocks]

You just don't understand. Yes, all of them together might equal Tesla's share.

That is, if the traditional manufacturers all work together and throw everything they can at it, they may limit Tesla to only owning half of the entire auto market.

All this is irrelevant if they don't find an alternative to Lithium

 

[wilberforce15]

All this is irrelevant if they don't find an alternative to Lithium

Your argument has changed every time you get cornered. I appreciate that.

Tesla is working as a good old fashioned monopolistic industrialist. You don't need something other than Lithium if you lock up the supply and expand the supply. Tesla is doing both.

 

[rickyb]

You just don't understand. Yes, all of them together might equal Tesla's share.

That is, if the traditional manufacturers all work together and throw everything they can at it, they may limit Tesla to only owning half of the entire EV market.

u have terrible taste in cars if u drive a tesla.

i can adjust the climate in 1 few seconds in my car bc its all circular dials. let me know how long it takes to tinker through menus to do that on a tesla. i can adjust the vents on my car in 2 seconds. how long does it take to do this on a tesla?

 

[Brownsocks]

Your argument has changed every time you get cornered. I appreciate that.

Tesla is working as a good old fashioned monopolistic industrialist. You don't need something other than Lithium if you lock up the supply and expand the supply. Tesla is doing both.

My argument hasn't changed, I just take different approaches to goating you with facts.
"By 2030, there's projected to be a lithium deficit between 455,000 and 1.7 million metric tons each year. "

 

[rickyb]

Your argument has changed every time you get cornered. I appreciate that.

Tesla is working as a good old fashioned monopolistic industrialist. You don't need something other than Lithium if you lock up the supply and expand the supply. Tesla is doing both.

youve attached your identity far too much to tesla. who cares? their cars having boring luxury car styling.

 

[wilberforce15]

My argument hasn't changed, I just take different approaches to goating you with facts.
"By 2030, there's projected to be a lithium deficit between 455,000 and 1.7 million metric tons each year. "

Which is why billions of dollars are flowing at the industry.

When there is so much money to be made from solving the problem, the problem will be solved. That's how economics works.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It's not about time or catching on. The economics are fundamentally broken and can't be fixed. The production and distribution of fuel cannot be economically solved. The question is already over.

The production and distribution of conventional fuels may be over but the production and distribution of alternate fuels, primarily hydrogen, is still being refined (pun somewhat intended).

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

electric vehicles add to rush hour. public transit solves that.

electric vehicles are expensive. it makes america uncompetitive vs a country that has developed public transit, especially if the transit is cheap. electric vehicles raise cost of doing business bc employers have to pay for high cost of transit.

In some states EV cars are allowed to use the HOV lanes.