Only 5% of next car purchasers expect to buy all electric cars-Road and Track.

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It's not a technological problem. The infrastructure is impossibly expensive for production and distribution. Electric 'fuel' already has an entire infrastructure built in the form of power lines and just needs more. Retrofitting any meaningful system for hydrogen on a society-wide basis is nothing more than a pipe dream.

The only drawback with the electricity used is that some of if it comes from coal powered plants. We will only attain 100% energy independence when all of our electricity is hyrdo-created. Much of the electricity in my area is generated by Hydro-Quebec.

 

[rickyb]

In some states EV cars are allowed to use the HOV lanes.

think its like that here too.

but i suspect we are beating around the bush when it comes to EVs and whats actually efficient.

 

[wilberforce15]

The production and distribution of conventional fuels may be over but the production and distribution of alternate fuels, primarily hydrogen, is still being refined (pun somewhat intended).

But no matter the refinement, it will be vastly expensive beyond any possible benefit, given that EV's already have the infrastructure and the performance that Hydrogen is trying to solve. There isn't a big enough gap between an EV and a hydrogen vehicle for the world to upend everything to pursue Hydrogen.

It's cool. And it would probably win and be worth doing if EV's didn't exist. But they do. Therefore, there is no reason to spend McDuck level of money when the solution already exists.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I think ICE will exist longer than even I think. Without new battery technology electric semis seem stuck at 200 to 400 miles of range and that isn't taking hills and weather in to account. Batteries are big and heavy and don't scale well which leads to increased damage to asphalt and a dramatic increase in tire wear. We aren't there yet.

Mercedes-Benz Working on EV with More Than 620 Miles of Range

The Vision EQXX claims to use an energy-dense battery and slippery aerodynamics to achieve maximum efficiency without having to resort to a massive battery pack.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Brownsocks]

Which is why billions of dollars are flowing at the industry.

When there is so much money to be made from solving the problem, the problem will be solved. That's how economics works.

Yet we have a world trying to phase out ICE in 8 to 15 years even when conditions aren't close.

You accused me of making decisions based on fake news, but any one of the 3 items below make me question any evs viability over the next decade.
1. Electric grid can't handle 300 million electric cars.
2. Lithium deficit is insurmountable.
3. Electric car range and charge options doesnt make it a viable year round, all use vehicle for most people.

 

[wilberforce15]

Yet we have a world trying to phase out ICE in 8 to 15 years even when conditions aren't close.

You accused me of making decisions based on fake news, but any one of the 3 items below make me question any evs viability over the next decade.
1. Electric grid can't handle 300 million electric cars.
2. Lithium deficit is insurmountable.
3. Electric car range and charge options doesnt make it a viable year round, all use vehicle for most people.

1. It can be made to, if people want to dedicate the resources, and there is widespread political and economic support for doing it. Therefore, it will be done.

2. Billions of dollars create revolutionary changes. There is plenty of lithium. The only question is how we can get at it. That's a technological issue with an entire sector invested in finding the solution, and the winner reaping billions. Such problems get solved. That's how economics works.

3. I detailed my own 1000 mile road trip in a day in an EV, and it cost me an extra 1-2 hours over gas. It's viable year-round for almost everybody.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

1. It can be made to, if people want to dedicate the resources, and there is widespread political and economic support for doing it. Therefore, it will be done.

2. Billions of dollars create revolutionary changes. There is plenty of lithium. The only question is how we can get at it. That's a technological issue with an entire sector invested in finding the solution, and the winner reaping billions. Such problems get solved. That's how economics works.

3. I detailed my own 1000 mile road trip in a day in an EV, and it cost me an extra 1-2 hours over gas. It's viable year-round for almost everybody.

3. I am having a hard time believing this one. You told us earlier that you drove roughly 250 miles between "fill ups". Level 3 charges have a charging range of 3-20 miles per minute. At best you could "recharge" in 12.5 minutes, most likely 25 minutes. I have personally found that it would take closer to an hour; at any rate, I am not quite confident to the point where I would be willing to take a 1000 mile road trip any time soon.

 

[wilberforce15]

3. I am having a hard time believing this one. You told us earlier that you drove roughly 250 miles between "fill ups". Level 3 charges have a charging range of 3-20 miles per minute. At best you could "recharge" in 12.5 minutes, most likely 25 minutes. I have personally found that it would take closer to an hour; at any rate, I am not quite confident to the point where I would be willing to take a 1000 mile road trip any time soon.

Yes, if you leave full and arrive low, a 1000 mile trip can be done in 3 charges and 250 range. Mine was 4. And I had a lot of battery remaining at each. I lowered my range estimate to accommodate less capable EVs.

4 charges take 3 hours. Easily done. A normal gas trip would involve 1 to 2 hours of stops for any normal people driving 1000 miles for gas and food.

Therefore, my trip was 1 to 2 hours longer than I've done the same trip in a gas car. And that's with 4 45 minute charges. Each charging place has food and bathrooms, so no other stops.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Yes, if you leave full and arrive low, a 1000 mile trip can be done in 3 charges and 250 range. Mine was 4. And I had a lot of battery remaining at each. I lowered my range estimate to accommodate less capable EVs.

4 charges take 3 hours. Easily done. A normal gas trip would involve 1 to 2 hours of stops for any normal people driving 1000 miles for gas and food.

Therefore, my trip was 1 to 2 hours longer than I've done the same trip in a gas car. And that's with 4 45 minute charges. Each charging place has food and bathrooms, so no other stops.

My 2018 Nissan Altima, which had ALL the bells and whistles, could get up to 600 miles on a full tank of gas; conservatively, even if I got 500 miles, your 1000 mile trip would require two stops.

When my kids were young my (ex) wife and I took them to Disney, which was a 22.5 hour drive. On the way down we split the drive in half, staying with family near DC. We wanted to stay an extra day so we made the trip back in one day----3 stops----gas, food, bathroom. Was it worth staying the extra day? Yes but I would never do it again.

As I stated earlier, I am just not that confident in my EV car to even think about a 1000 mile road trip.

 

[DriverNerd]

Yet we have a world trying to phase out ICE in 8 to 15 years even when conditions aren't close.

You accused me of making decisions based on fake news, but any one of the 3 items below make me question any evs viability over the next decade.
1. Electric grid can't handle 300 million electric cars.
2. Lithium deficit is insurmountable.
3. Electric car range and charge options doesnt make it a viable year round, all use vehicle for most people.

1. Agreed. Power plants take way longer to create and implement than anything. We need a serious upgrade and investment and politics slows that progress to a crawl.
2. With the coming advancements in battery technology this isn't much of a worry to me in the long run. We have so many companies currently working on alternatives.
3. Electric companies are making 400-500 mile range EV's now. Mercedes has promised 600 miles in the near future. One company put their batteries in place of a Model S' and made it over 700 miles. With battery advancements growing so rapidly I don't think we'll have an EV under 300 miles by the end of the decade. 300 miles is a long drive without stopping for food or bathroom. Some of the current generation EV's that have less than 200 miles range (usable in a cold climate) making long trips pretty troublesome. I certainly wouldn't want to stop that often, especially for 20-30 minutes at a time.

 

[wilberforce15]

My 2018 Nissan Altima, which had ALL the bells and whistles, could get up to 600 miles on a full tank of gas; conservatively, even if I got 500 miles, your 1000 mile trip would require two stops.

When my kids were young my (ex) wife and I took them to Disney, which was a 22.5 hour drive. On the way down we split the drive in half, staying with family near DC. We wanted to stay an extra day so we made the trip back in one day----3 stops----gas, food, bathroom. Was it worth staying the extra day? Yes but I would never do it again.

As I stated earlier, I am just not that confident in my EV car to even think about a 1000 mile road trip.

600 miles isn't a normal range.

Most people don't go that long between stops anyway, even if the car is capable.

Most people take enough breaks on road trips that driving an EV barely extends the trips, if the stops are planned and broken out accordingly.

 

[wilberforce15]

On the internet, when EV's come up, people take 5 minute stops every 500 miles for gas.

In real life, where people actually live and aren't arguing about EVs, people take 15 or 30 minute stops every 3 hours for gas, food, or stretching.

 

[rickyb]

Public transit? Here? This is so tone deaf and simply obtuse.

you guys are tone deaf to the things that are beyond your control like the environment. you think everything is about free will. its not.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

On the internet, when EV's come up, people take 5 minute stops every 500 miles for gas.

In real life, where people actually live and aren't arguing about EVs, people take 15 or 30 minute stops every 3 hours for gas, food, or stretching.

When it is just me in the car I only stop when I either have to buy gas or use the bathroom----as I get older the bathroom breaks become more and more frequent.

 

[wilberforce15]

Where is this universe? Certainly not here. You must be from Manhattan or some other blue nightmare.....

We have space here. Lot's of freedom and space......I couldn't tell you where a EV station is.....

Nobody I know has an electric car.....they don't have any utility. There aren't any charging stations here. My commute takes 2 hours round trip......I'd have to have everything charged....how would I zip in and get a couple gallons to get me by.....

Why would I spend an extra $10k to have something that doesn't work?

You spout talking point platitudes.......WE live in a real world....on Earth.

EV charging would take less of your time.

Instead of making a separate stop for gas and waiting 5 minutes for fuel, you could just plug something in at night. An EV would take less of your time in an average week. Your charging station is your house.

 

[rickyb]

Gimmick?

Wait.....dial up phones.......dial radios......the future....analog.....?

Maybe in China....where they are currently building 43 new coal burning power plants...

Say, maybe we'll go back to steam engines.....OMG.

we could go back to nothing at all when civilization collapses

can you imagine?

 

[rickyb]

We have one....it's there everyday.

Wondrous even....

But to a commie...unrecognizable....to free......ah freedom....

its superficial. it doesnt work when you actually look closely. kinda like american housing prices in the 2000s

 

[rickyb]

Thanks MAO.

Communist China......

JEEZus

theres memes on this because its incredible how much high speed rail china has built since 2010.

 

[rickyb]

Ok. What are we going to do? OMG. Then what?

Even teleportation will take energy......

Even a horse weighs a 1000lbs........

were going to have to actually think about what really matters and what we are capable of doing within the confines of the environment

 

[DriveInDriѵeOut]

Ask after they hand you a $7500 tax credit….

And even after that they're not competitive.