Orion warning letters

[10 point]

According to who?

Because the company.....is above board.....and beyond reproach?

Who's side are you supposed....and paid....to be on?

How "convienient" that claim must be....there is "always" more to the story.

A very prominent and well-known business agent (throughout the US) told me that the bargaining unit employees make a lot of mistakes. That statement and how it was conveyed showed me that somehow in his mind the 200,000 Plus employees at United Parcel Service were painted with the same brush.
Does that lead to a biased mentality that the business agents have to step in to "save" us all from ourselves?

The odds are greater that the hourly have more opportunity to make mistakes just because of the vast number of employees and the way society is today. And yes, the steward and the locals don't always get the whole story from the employee first time around. That's human nature and it's wrong.
But if the employee does not trust the BA or steward they're much less likely to share all the information with them.
They pick their poison when weighing out the odds.

 

[Brownslave688]

A very prominent and well-known business agent (throughout the US) told me that the bargaining unit employees make a lot of mistakes. That statement and how it was conveyed showed me that somehow in his mind the 200,000 Plus employees at United Parcel Service were painted with the same brush.
Does that lead to a biased mentality that the business agents have to step in to "save" us all from ourselves?

The odds are greater that the hourly have more opportunity to make mistakes just because of the vast number of employees and the way society is today. And yes, the steward and the locals don't always get the whole story from the employee first time around. That's human nature and it's wrong.
But if the employee does not trust the BA or steward they're much less likely to share all the information with them.
They pick their poison when weighing out the odds.

We are human of course we make mistakes.

I love being in a union but this is where I see Union jobs differing from other jobs or maybe it's just ups.

Most employers don't try to fire someone for every single mistake they make. The employee usually has to make many before it gets to that point. With a union (or maybe just ups) they can't just fire you for anything so they see the slightest opening and its like bam we will show them.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Our BA recently sent a letter to the membership in which he stated, in part, that the Union will do all that it can for the members but that there was little they could to do to defend dishonesty.

 

[10 point]

We are human of course we make mistakes.

I love being in a union but this is where I see Union jobs differing from other jobs or maybe it's just ups.

Most employers don't try to fire someone for every single mistake they make. The employee usually has to make many before it gets to that point. With a union (or maybe just ups) they can't just fire you for anything so they see the slightest opening and its like bam we will show them.

If hourly performed their jobs with the same quality that many PDS and operational supes I've seen have there would be an unprecedented HR hiring nightmare.

 

[10 point]

Our BA recently sent a letter to the membership in which he stated, in part, that the Union will do all that it can for the members but that there was little they could to do to defend dishonesty.

And dishonesty is management's middle name...with NO immediate repercussions.

 

[Brownslave688]

If hourly performed their jobs with the same quality that many PDS and operational supes I've seen have there would be an unprecedented HR hiring nightmare.

I once had a center manager who honest to god didn't think anything was "his job". His response to everything was that's a dispatch problem go talk to them or what do you want me to do go talk to your driver sup.

I'm sure he's way up the chain by now. Telling everyone else it's their fault.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

But.... there is always more to the story.

Because the company.....is above board.....and beyond reproach?

Don't put words in my mouth.


If you run for office again, I would seriously think about helping you get elected.

Reason being.... just so you could "get a taste" of the real world.

Sam used to be belligerent. What happened with him ?

And yes, the steward and the locals don't always get the whole story from the employee first time around. That's human nature and it's wrong.
But if the employee does not trust the BA or steward they're much less likely to share all the information with them. They pick their poison when weighing out the odds.

I get that.

But, you can only complain for so long.

The ballot box is always available.

Most employers don't try to fire someone for every single mistake they make. The employee usually has to make many before it gets to that point.

No Union employers.... try and terminate employees for simple mistakes.

That's where "progressive discipline" comes in to play.


Unless, it's an enumerated (contractual) or cardinal violation.

And even then.... there can be options.



-Bug-

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Our BA recently sent a letter to the membership in which he stated, in part, that the Union will do all that it can for the members but that there was little they could to do to defend dishonesty.

As far as what ?

Your Local had to spend dues money.... to send a letter...

And explain what dishonesty is ?

And dishonesty is management's middle name...with NO immediate repercussions.

It's not a "level playing field" without proof.



-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

Don't put words in my mouth.

(?) This symbol is a question mark and denotes a question is being asked.

Even if in a rhetorical context, it does not put "words in your mouth"
Instead, it denotes "my perception" of what you posted.

I was responding to your assertion that "there is always more to the story".

This is what the company wants you believe and it's simply not true, not always, not even close to always.

If you run for office again, I would seriously think about helping you get elected.

Reason being.... just so you could "get a taste" of the real world.

The "real world", that's an interesting term and an arbitrary one.

This country was built by people who endeavored to change the world and they succeeded.

There was a time when women and black people couldn't vote in the "real world", but that changed.

The "real world" that you're intrenched in is overdue for a correction.

You may be left behind.

 

[Inthegame]

The "real world", that's an interesting term and an arbitrary one.

This country was built by people who endeavored to change the world and they succeeded.

There was a time when women and black people couldn't vote in the "real world", but that changed.

The "real world" that you're entrenched in is overdue for a correction.

You may be left behind.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

Margaret Mead

 

[10 point]

As far as what ?

Your Local had to spend dues money.... to send a letter...

And explain what dishonesty is ?



It's not a "level playing field" without proof.



-Bug-

We have ways of leveling the playing field but as for the management policing and rectifying their own dishonest and at times unlawful actions... well... that's really funny.

Don't put words in my mouth.




I get that.

But, you can only complain for so long.

The ballot box is always available.




-Bug-

That it is.

 

[10 point]

According to who?

Because the company.....is above board.....and beyond reproach?

Who's side are you supposed....and paid....to be on?

How "convienient" that claim must be....there is "always" more to the story.

We may be the bottom of the food chain but our teeth are sharp.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

(?) This symbol is a question mark and denotes a question is being asked.

Even if in a rhetorical context, it does not put "words in your mouth"
Instead, it denotes "my perception" of what you posted.

Thanks for the clarification.

After all, we're just a bunch of dumb truck drivers.

I was responding to your assertion that "there is always more to the story".

This is what the company wants you believe and it's simply not true, not always, not even close to always.

When I say that, it has nothing to do with what the company position is.

It's that moment....

When the grievants story doesn't wash, and you're left holding the bag.


If you get outside (the bubble) of UPS and deal with other Unionized companies....

You'll see that it's everywhere. Granted, not with every case.

The "real world", that's an interesting term and an arbitrary one.

If you were exposed to the political heirarchy of the Teamsters....

You would realize, that's right on the mark.

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.

Margaret Mead

Great quote.

It could be used in campaign literature.

We have ways of leveling the playing field.

Union wise, the ballot box works every time.

We may be the bottom of the food chain but our teeth are sharp.

That's a good attitude to have.

If you can translate that, in to a message that would motivate members to vote ??

I am all ears.



-Bug-

 

[10 point]

Thanks for the clarification.

After all, we're just a bunch of dumb truck drivers.



When I say that, it has nothing to do with what the company position is.

It's that moment....

When the grievants story doesn't wash, and your left holding the bag.


If you get outside (the bubble) of UPS and deal with other Unionized companies....

You'll see that it's everywhere. Granted, not with every case.



If you were exposed to the political heirarchy of the Teamsters....

You would realize, that's right on the mark.



Great quote.

It could be used in campaign literature.



Union wise, the ballot box works every time.



That's a good attitude to have.

If you can translate that, in to a message that would motivate members to vote ??

I am all ears.



-Bug-

We (stewards) translate it everyday when we don't back down to abuses in our workplace. We lead by example. No matter what.

Our local voted heavily (percentage wise) during this last CBA and all it takes is one person to stand up and say "this is your future and you have one chance, one vote, and one opportunity this day to make a difference".

People do not follow cowards.

Real Teamsters count the cost, make decisions, and then take a stand for themselves, their families, and the future of hard working Americans who ever increasingly are being sold out to corporate greed.


You only get one chance to do life right sometimes and my greatest fear is not about failing but about not doing good when it's in my power to do it.

Courage breeds courage.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

We (stewards) translate it everyday when we don't back down to abuses in our workplace. We lead by example. No matter what.

Our local voted heavily (percentage wise) during this last CBA and all it takes is one person to stand up and say "this is your future and you have one chance, one vote, and one opportunity this day to make a difference".

People do not follow cowards.

Real Teamsters count the cost, make decisions, and then take a stand for themselves, their families, and the future of hard working Americans who ever increasingly are being sold out to corporate greed.


You only get one chance to do life right sometimes and my greatest fear is not about failing but about not doing good when it's in my power to do it.

Courage breeds courage.

If that is a true statement.... I applaud you.... for finally standing up.



-Bug-

 

[Bubblehead]

Union wise, the ballot box works every time.

Didn't work for some in the last contract vote.

The "ballot box" was rendered irrelevant by a one sentence section in Art. XII of The IBT Constitution.

It's that moment....

When the grievants story doesn't wash, and you're left holding the bag.

I won't be holding the bag, he'll likely be packing his bags....

....and I won't lose a minutes sleep if it was a result of the grievant not being forthright with me.

There are 2 people you never lie to...your doctor and your lawyer.
If you do, then they can't help you.

I need not see your scenario play out in other vocations to understand.
I have seen it play out both ways from my limited vantage point.

It was the word "always" that made me take pause and exception, because it would seem to be the predisposition of those who sit on elevated perches, both company and union.
After all, aren't we supposed to be innocent until proven guilty

 

[Bubblehead]

If that is a true statement.... I applaud you.... for finally standing up.



-Bug-

Your applause will come when you finally start backing us up.

 

[Brownslave688]

There are 2 people you never lie to...your doctor and your lawyer.
If you do, then they can't help you.

Off topic but so true. My wife administers anestisa for a living. She says you wouldn't belive what people lie about or omit because they don't see why it's important.

Almost lost a 2 year old in surgery because the family failed to mention there's a family history of extreme asthma.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Your applause will come when you finally start backing us up.

If any elected official, needs a "pat on the back" to justify their motive or position....

This isn't the job for you.

It's that moment....

When the grievants story doesn't wash, and you're left holding the bag.

I won't be holding the bag, he'll likely be packing his bags....

....and I won't lose a minutes sleep if it was a result of the grievant not being forthright with me.

As I try and relate "real world" experience in these situations....You now concur.


Interesting.



-Bug-

 

[10 point]

If that is a true statement.... I applaud you.... for finally standing up.



-Bug-

It is a painfully true statement.

I've been standing up all along. You maybe missed it because I'm short.