ORION, Who has it and tell us what you think...

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
This might be obvious, but any driver out there knows the situation: one, maybe two stops on the PC is blown out..maybe big boxes, maybe 50 or 60 packages. Or, it might be a blown out stop at the end of your day that HAS to be addressed ASAP. If the PC is blown blown out, no amount of planning or expensive software will remedy the day. The problem is, despite what management say, this happens frequently.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
My PDS is an incompetent maroon who screws up our dispatch literally every single day. Some how he manged to convince his superiors that the problem wasn't really him, it was the fact that the center was poorly looped and that if they would let him reloop it he could fix everything (this despite the fact that everything was going pretty good before he got here). This turned out pretty much the way we expected: a disaster. He has screwed the loops up beyond belief, none of his plans make sense and no one knows from one day to the next what their route will consist of. I'm sure that ORION will solve all our problems though, because clearly the answer is give this raging idiot even more power over the system.
 
I don't know about anybody else but I can wait to follow this system 100% wherever it might take me. I had to be instructed not to follow edd 100% and I'm sure I will be told the same with this system. Until that it's game on Cha Ching.
 

Jackburton

Gone Fish'n
I don't know about anybody else but I can wait to follow this system 100% wherever it might take me. I had to be instructed not to follow edd 100% and I'm sure I will be told the same with this system. Until that it's game on Cha Ching.
Unless this new system somehow makes my hourly rate lower I'll follow it however they want. They want me to drive this clown car all around town, I got the time if they got the money.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
There are 27 posts (so far) about a system most do not know about.

I have heard about ORION for the last few years and have shared much of the concerns and speculation as mentioned on this board. Will it be perfect? Of course not.... But I have had a chance to see it in person and much of the accusations here is not true....

It's the most retarded system I have ever used. I no longer follow it's trace. Until my boss (not the ORion guy) tells me to follow I have decided not to.

So, you are not following the ORION trace. Are you running less miles than what ORION says? If so, that is what is supposed to happen. If not, why.

I was told that ORION will NOT work on every route, but I have seen many ORION routes and for the most part they are very good.

Of course, as was said it depends on how well they set it up. I have seen a good setup, and it was very good.


They had it in 2 buildings in my area 2 years ago after a year they pulled the plug and moved on. They had to put the Orion people up in hotels monday through Thursday for over a year tall about cost the company a fortune.

We have discussed this before..... Some of what you say is true and I followed up.....

People did stay in hotle rooms during the week. It cost the company a lot.

But, that was by plan. It was a test to see if ORION could work.

They did not "pull the plug", they finished the test.

I looked for the statistics for those buildings in New England. They had remarkable improvement in miles and SPORH. They followed ORION about 80% of the time. Their serviced stayed the same or improved.

One last thing......

What about the driver on the video? Is he lying? Is he an actor?

I've spoken to many ORION drivers that were part of the test, and now they they are expanding I've spoken to others in my area who now have the system. He is pretty typical from what I've seen.

As far as I know, each driver gets at least two rides from the ORION group. This is your chance to have your information fixed and show what works and what doesn't......

To me, its pretty simple. Use ORION as a guide. If you can do it better, do it. If not, try following ORION.
 

barnyard

KTM rider
If the ground that is near your air is in the 8000 section of a blown out truck, does it account for that?

That is the problem that I see.

I was bricked out Friday. Had close to 100 more pieces than a normal day. Thankfully, I did not have even 1 NDA and I was able to deliver on trace. This was a load where EDD/PAS saved me from going back to at least 10 stops. Every stop that was on the floor, had 2 or 3 packages on a shelf, there was so much bulk on shelves, that there were 2 or 3 packages in each section that belonged in different sections (found a section 6 package in section 8, but I found it on trace, saving me a hella long drive.)

In my experience, PAS/EDD implementation was like pulling teeth with no novocaine. I would expect Orion to be the same.

I would also expect that after some intense growing pains, that it really would save some time and miles. I have had plenty of resis NDA where I was back delivering ground to a neighbor, would love to get that off with the NDA. It sounds like Orion is attempting to do what many of us already try to do. It would also be nice when delivering rural routes to have suggestions to really reduce miles. The route that I am on now has lots and lots of lake roads, the area is not laid out on a grid or at least not a very good grid. Many days, it loops nicely, yesterday it kind of did, but there were several ways that it could have been done and it would be nice to see what the lowest mile way is. I don't know if my way was the best and I would be interested to see what a smart program would do with a same-type situation.

There will be some days that it does not work, but there will be many where it works as advertised.
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
There are 27 posts (so far) about a system most do not know about.

I have heard about ORION for the last few years and have shared much of the concerns and speculation as mentioned on this board. Will it be perfect? Of course not.... But I have had a chance to see it in person and much of the accusations here is not true....



So, you are not following the ORION trace. Are you running less miles than what ORION says? If so, that is what is supposed to happen. If not, why.

I was told that ORION will NOT work on every route, but I have seen many ORION routes and for the most part they are very good.

Of course, as was said it depends on how well they set it up. I have seen a good setup, and it was very good.




We have discussed this before..... Some of what you say is true and I followed up.....

People did stay in hotle rooms during the week. It cost the company a lot.

But, that was by plan. It was a test to see if ORION could work.

They did not "pull the plug", they finished the test.

I looked for the statistics for those buildings in New England. They had remarkable improvement in miles and SPORH. They followed ORION about 80% of the time. Their serviced stayed the same or improved.

One last thing......

What about the driver on the video? Is he lying? Is he an actor?

I've spoken to many ORION drivers that were part of the test, and now they they are expanding I've spoken to others in my area who now have the system. He is pretty typical from what I've seen.

As far as I know, each driver gets at least two rides from the ORION group. This is your chance to have your information fixed and show what works and what doesn't......

To me, its pretty simple. Use ORION as a guide. If you can do it better, do it. If not, try following ORION.

Orion can be added to the list of ideas that are just costing the company millions. Telematics cost a pretty penny to operate and maintain (ie it cost UPS money every time a signal is sent to a satellite and the mechanics are constantly replace sensors, solenoids and fixing the FOB problems ). Orion is costing a small fortune that will only get bigger as the system needs to be tweaked more that EDD and in order for you to get your EDD tweaked these days you need a letter from the president as the dispatch manager is to busy trying to figure out how he can cut another route to meet stops per car BS...
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
They had it in 2 buildings in my area 2 years ago after a year they pulled the plug and moved on. They had to put the Orion people up in hotels monday through Thursday for over a year tall about cost the company a fortune.

Orion can be added to the list of ideas that are just costing the company millions. Telematics cost a pretty penny to operate and maintain (ie it cost UPS money every time a signal is sent to a satellite and the mechanics are constantly replace sensors, solenoids and fixing the FOB problems ). Orion is costing a small fortune that will only get bigger as the system needs to be tweaked more that EDD and in order for you to get your EDD tweaked these days you need a letter from the president as the dispatch manager is to busy trying to figure out how he can cut another route to meet stops per car BS...

So, lets get this right......

This penny pinching, greedy company, whose Management Committee makes huge bonuses based on improved profit is deploying things that are losing money?

The idea that internal metrics, egos, and personal opinion drive huge decisions makes for good movies, but is not the case at UPS.

Its true that the systems you mentioned never delivered that true promise. Its true that they are not perfect. Its true that some management abuse and misuse those systems. Its true that ORION and all new future systems will be like those others.... Imperfect.

Its NOT true that they have not paid benefit. Go take a look at operational metrics over the years. Operations efficiency has greatly improved and those systems are a huge reason. There is a group in UPS whose job it is to measure that.... And its NOT I.E.

Without those systems and improvements we would have problems today. We would be challenged to have the jobs and wages we do. Like it or not, competition is fierce and operations efficiency is necessary to stay competitive.

If you can do the job at less cost, do it....... Unfortunately, not all drivers are as perfect.....
 

HEFFERNAN

Huge Member
Honestly, PAS and EDD have worked well. A great driver will always look and see if he's got a ground with his air stop. If time is on my side, I may even knock off an area if there are stops near my NDA stop. This also depends on the load of my truck in the morning, which if it costs me to much time to find the stops I abort and continue on.

I would give it an honest effort when it comes to my center. The problem isn't how many miles and minutes the new system saves, IT'S HOW MY CENTER WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME AND ADD MORE WORK TO NULLIFY THOSE SAVINGS.
 

barnyard

KTM rider
IT'S HOW MY CENTER WILL TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME AND ADD MORE WORK TO NULLIFY THOSE SAVINGS.

Yabbut, the idea with any of these time savers is not to see how much earlier a given driver will get done, it is to add more work to the day. I have seen that on the routes I cover. All of them go out with way more stops than 10 years ago. Plus, there is no such thing as "gravy routes" anymore. They pretty much all suck equally.
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
Orion is garbage. EDD works great but they need to sit down and tweak it a bit. That's the problem with UPS, there is no communication. Their plan "Lets create a system that thinks for you and you just follow it."

They ask you be 80% on Orion and i came in at 91%. The guy says "but your miles are over by 12." I said well as your paper shows I was 91% on your system and my miles still "failed" so where do we go from here? He then went on to point out every road i should and shouldn't take. He wants me to take back roads instead of main roads because they are less miles. I tried to explain we take the path of least resistance and taking side roads would extend my day and he flat out say "We aren't worried about how long you are out there but more about miles." I told my center manager this and he said "I am worried about your times and not miles." Welcome to UPS.
 

Dracula

Package Car is cake compared to this...
Pretzel_Man, you still ignore the main problem: the preload. I don't know you, so I won't put words or actions with your name. That said, however, I've yet to meet a manager who either had, the will, the power or the idea of how to fix the preload. I've met a lot of part-time sups who would openly admit what a fiasco the preload is, but none had any ideas on how to fix it, and their superiors weren't about to make any noises above their pay level to fix it. This was primarily because the numbers fall downhill, and everyone in a tie was expected to make those numbers happen, come hell or high water.

With that sort of directive, nothing will ever change. And it hasn't. I left package car a year and a half ago, and it was just as bad then, as it was the day the PAL system came on-line. Maybe even worse. I still talk to drivers in my old center, and they say it is as bad as it ever was.

We were always told that the drivers were the key to our business. If that was/is true, then everything supporting that notion is a solid preload. In all of my years here, I never understood this company's ever ending shortcuts in the preload. For all of the money spent on fancy, intuitive technology, it is only as good as the foundation it lies upon. The EDD/PAL system or even the newer ORION system could be designed flawlessly, but if the human element cannot implement it, how effective can it be?

If my preloader is running his/her ass off, struggling with full cages, too many trucks, a too late start time, and a impending driver deadline, how much blame can they really take when their loads are poor? That is the situation we have at UPS. There is no culpability on management's part. That is a large oversight, no?

When they introduced the PAL/EDD system in my building years ago, our management team deliberately switched all of the preloaders around to new pulls, telling everyone that with the new system, "A monkey could load these trucks now." After a few weeks of disastrous loads, we begged management to go find and hire those monkeys, because things weren't working out.

Surely, you can see the larger problem here.

"It will be fine." "It will all work out." That is what we were always told when the system has had its inevitable teething problems. Yet, things never really smoothed out. Ask any driver here how well their dispatch is, especially when they get a add/cut from somewhere else. More often than not, it is unpredictable, nonsensical even.

And that is the problem. Just because it is said to happen, doesn't automatically make it so.
 

BigUnionGuy

Got the T-Shirt
Operations efficiency has greatly improved and those systems are a huge reason.

At what cost ?

More injuries, misloads, missed pieces, damages, and accidents. Not to mention.... damage to the UPS "reputation".

The frequency of accidents are so bad now, that Liberty Mutual reps come into the building.... to participate in PCM's.

Your view of the situation, is somewhat skewed....



-Bug-
 

undies

Well-Known Member
I remember when EDD was new and we all HAD to follow it, stop for stop. Management would talk to you about why you left trace or why you deviated from EDD...that didn't last long. Now we have a broken EDD and nobody talks about. Same will happen with this system. As the drivers we will pay the price (or UPS will monetarily) to be the guinea pigs. It will come in and be the flavor of the month and in time they will realize you cannot control the constantly changing working conditions we deal with on a daily basis!
 

Indecisi0n

Well-Known Member
I remember when EDD was new and we all HAD to follow it, stop for stop. Management would talk to you about why you left trace or why you deviated from EDD...that didn't last long. Now we have a broken EDD and nobody talks about. Same will happen with this system. As the drivers we will pay the price (or UPS will monetarily) to be the guinea pigs. It will come in and be the flavor of the month and in time they will realize you cannot control the constantly changing working conditions we deal with on a daily basis!

The system is broken from the get-go. The funny part is these routes change EVERYDAY so the system is never going to work correctly.
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Orion is garbage. EDD works great but they need to sit down and tweak it a bit. That's the problem with UPS, there is no communication. Their plan "Lets create a system that thinks for you and you just follow it."

They ask you be 80% on Orion and i came in at 91%. The guy says "but your miles are over by 12." I said well as your paper shows I was 91% on your system and my miles still "failed" so where do we go from here? He then went on to point out every road i should and shouldn't take. He wants me to take back roads instead of main roads because they are less miles. I tried to explain we take the path of least resistance and taking side roads would extend my day and he flat out say "We aren't worried about how long you are out there but more about miles." I told my center manager this and he said "I am worried about your times and not miles." Welcome to UPS.

Why were you 12 miles over???

Do you think ORION only looks at miles??? That is incorrect.....

When they rode you with a tablet, did you hit the ORION miles? If not (and on that ride you were over) then 12 miles over is right.....

If not, why?
 

pretzel_man

Well-Known Member
Dracula,

If you are saying that ORION will not work if the preload has lots of misloads, you are absolutely right....

Part of deployment is tracking misloads. ORION only knows the deliveries that PAS / EDD shows. If they are incorrect, ORION will be equally incorrect.....

BTW, the system does know what you had when you left and what you delivered. Its easy to validate the difference.


Pretzel_Man, you still ignore the main problem: the preload. I don't know you, so I won't put words or actions with your name. That said, however, I've yet to meet a manager who either had, the will, the power or the idea of how to fix the preload. I've met a lot of part-time sups who would openly admit what a fiasco the preload is, but none had any ideas on how to fix it, and their superiors weren't about to make any noises above their pay level to fix it. This was primarily because the numbers fall downhill, and everyone in a tie was expected to make those numbers happen, come hell or high water.

With that sort of directive, nothing will ever change. And it hasn't. I left package car a year and a half ago, and it was just as bad then, as it was the day the PAL system came on-line. Maybe even worse. I still talk to drivers in my old center, and they say it is as bad as it ever was.

We were always told that the drivers were the key to our business. If that was/is true, then everything supporting that notion is a solid preload. In all of my years here, I never understood this company's ever ending shortcuts in the preload. For all of the money spent on fancy, intuitive technology, it is only as good as the foundation it lies upon. The EDD/PAL system or even the newer ORION system could be designed flawlessly, but if the human element cannot implement it, how effective can it be?

If my preloader is running his/her ass off, struggling with full cages, too many trucks, a too late start time, and a impending driver deadline, how much blame can they really take when their loads are poor? That is the situation we have at UPS. There is no culpability on management's part. That is a large oversight, no?

When they introduced the PAL/EDD system in my building years ago, our management team deliberately switched all of the preloaders around to new pulls, telling everyone that with the new system, "A monkey could load these trucks now." After a few weeks of disastrous loads, we begged management to go find and hire those monkeys, because things weren't working out.

Surely, you can see the larger problem here.

"It will be fine." "It will all work out." That is what we were always told when the system has had its inevitable teething problems. Yet, things never really smoothed out. Ask any driver here how well their dispatch is, especially when they get a add/cut from somewhere else. More often than not, it is unpredictable, nonsensical even.

And that is the problem. Just because it is said to happen, doesn't automatically make it so.
 
Top