Over allowed write ups have begun.

[35years]

Most of those would negate a lock in ride.

Ah, but what if those happen on a day after the lock in ride? Does that mean the supposed "lock-in" numbers do not apply to that day?

 

[TearsInRain]

They are complete fiction if you think any driver demonstrates 15 stops per day every single day (not 14.9 or 15.1).

it's just an example to demonstrate a point dude...

TearsInRain...
Perhaps you are unaware that routes have their numbers changed numerous times over the years without a new time study.

Just because a runner gunner comes in early, sorts through break, speeds all day, runs and works unsafely and thus "demonstrates" that the route can average 15 SPORH, does not mean the "allowance" should be bumped up.

If observed/supervised SPORH is the criteria then all of the "helping" behavior, manipulation of driver, loading and sorting, work, and customers along with manipulation of dates observed must be eliminated.

allowances don't mean what you think they do anymore

Yep, I will give you that.
On a route that averages 20 SPORH with a driver with good methods you should expect 15-25 SPORH average most days...Not all days.

But the way UPS tries to apply the time studies (manipulate drivers) is far different. Best demonstrated level becomes the minimum expected level.

yah i'm with you that that's dumb

How about on a snowy day?
What if you have 3x normal NDA?
What if you are bulked out front to back?
What if you have 4 on calls?
What if your truck breaks down?
What if....

well then it wouldn't be a "typical day", and thus isn't really useful to compare against

we're talking averages here dude, that's all a goal is

 

[35years]

Most of those would negate a lock in ride.

Yep,
I have seen them (management) try to throw out and re-do a 3 day ride when the numbers support the driver's normal level of performance.

One was on a downtown route when the convention center had an event on the 3rd day so traffic was heavy. The problem is that the convention center has 100 similar events during a typical year. Should we throw out the standard for those 100 days?

One was when a driver had an 8 hour request on one of the 3 days. The problem is that he takes his maximum eight hour days every month. So if management says it is not a typical day should all 8 hour days not be held to the supposed "lock-in" standard?

Another was a spring 3 day "lock-in" ride when we got a late snowfall.
Since management contends the snowy day should not be used should all days with inclement weather not be held to the "lock-in" standard?

 

[35years]

we're talking averages here dude, that's all a goal is

A goal is not what we are discussing here in this thread. We are discussing using a flawed time study to discipline drivers.
We are discussing "averages" that are manipulated.

 

[ezmoney5150]

How about on a snowy day?
What if you have 3x normal NDA?
What if you are bulked out front to back?
What if you have 4 on calls?
What if your truck breaks down?
What if....

That's why the answer is everyday is different. Then when they say your spohr is lower than when supervised you say, because thats what it took that day.

 

[Dragon]

Supervised vs unsupervised?
Oh, you mean unsupervised vs a 3 day ride where the supervisor helps the driver in countless ways...

-Opening doors, closing doors = see answer below

-Getting the attention of the person to sign while driver is sheeting/unloading to expedite signature - Nope, driver had better drawn attention only going to tell him/her once other wise its "refuse to work as directed"

-pointing out the location of mis-sorts in the truck - Nope

-Driver going around house to DR pkg and sup stays in front and yells cust is now out front - just stand back and grin and make another annotation about know your area/customer

-Sup intercepting on calls and reassigning to alt driver - Not sure how that is done unless Sup touches DIAD - Bad move on part of the Sup

-load sup making sure load is perfect for 3 days, sometimes including taking off a few select bad stops, every label up and out, etc. etc. - We don't even waste the time telling the pre-load. Not sure why we think it is okay to do this.

-3 days for ride never chosen at random or when weather is bad - 2 days in row and another random day.

-Sup alerting driver to not forget to work in this or that stop - not sure what you mean. If you mean sort while waiting at dock or stop..yes.

-sup steadying unbalanced load on cart or, heaven forbid, sorting, flipping labels up, or lifting pkgs from floor to shelf while driver is away from the truck.

Me or my sups never touch a package during the ride I have been asked by many customers why I didn't help him/her.

-sup walking ahead of driver at a business to clear the way. Never heard of it or seen it done.

-all messages normally sent through the DIAD to driver on 3 day ride handled by the sup via a cell phone call. NOPE

-sup driving to or from route to "demonstrate" while speeding. NOPE, only when we leave you at the curb and discharge you on the spot for refusal to follow instructions.

-sup walking at unnaturally fast pace to speed driver's pace. LOL! that is a good one...what are you gonna say "he made me walk fast" as you are crying like a 12 year old.

I could name 20 to 30 more that have happened to me personally on production rides where the sup is supposedly "just observing".

I have seen a supervisor open a door to be polite not to "hurry a driver" we have easily won that argument many times.

It goes something like this "so what you are trying to say is no one has EVER opened a door for you as you delivered thru out the day on your route or any route you have worked on"

Driver response = Well....Well...sputter....sputter... Shop Steward = sheepishly turns away and rolls his eyes. Remember it happens on a "normal day" why would it not happen when we are on the car. The sup may do it the first day but any good manager who wants a quality ride will fix that after the first day.

 

[Dragon]

How about on a snowy day?
What if you have 3x normal NDA?
What if you are bulked out front to back?
What if you have 4 on calls?
What if your truck breaks down?
What if....

Put a request 8 on any of the days mentioned above...and I bet $50 it will not be a problem.

 

[10 Pt]

I have seen a supervisor open a door to be polite not to "hurry a driver" we have easily won that argument many times.

It goes something like this "so what you are trying to say is no one has EVER opened a door for you as you delivered thru out the day on your route or any route you have worked on"

Driver response = Well....Well...sputter....sputter... Shop Steward = sheepishly turns away and rolls his eyes. Remember it happens on a "normal day" why would it not happen when we are on the car. The sup may do it the first day but any good manager who wants a quality ride will fix that after the first day.

Your problem is solved by just letting the nice folks (minus your "polite" supervisor) open the doors for the driver. No sputter or rolling eyes here.

Nice try.

It's not a "normal" day when the driver has a tag along supe who opens doors to be "polite".

 

[35years]

I have seen a supervisor open a door to be polite not to "hurry a driver" we have easily won that argument many times.

It goes something like this "so what you are trying to say is no one has EVER opened a door for you as you delivered thru out the day on your route or any route you have worked on"

Driver response = Well....Well...sputter....sputter... Shop Steward = sheepishly turns away and rolls his eyes. Remember it happens on a "normal day" why would it not happen when we are on the car. The sup may do it the first day but any good manager who wants a quality ride will fix that after the first day.

Ha ha.
You must have inept drivers.
If they attempt a 3 day ride the sup will not hear me telling him all the ways he is helping me on the first day.
I will take mental note of them and each time I take a break they will be cataloged.

Then at the "3 day ride" attempted lock-in meeting they will hear the laundry list of ways the sup helped each day, how many times, and at which stops... from my Steward after the manager presents his case for lock-in numbers.

Manager response...stutter, Um, Well, I don't think we helped that much.

Steward..I think we are done here, end of meeting.

Never been locked-in in over 3 decades, and they have attempted many times.

 

[Dragon]

How much of a difference in SPORH between supervised and unsupervised before you start taking action?

We start reviewing the next day with vOJS...then it's anything less then .10 with same stop count and work.

Reason is = if you have no problem dropping a 9.5 grievance or on my desk for going over by 9.5 by a few minutes then I got no problem giving you paper when you violate the 3 day ride. Remember contract works both ways...and I always find more when I have to start supervising you because you cannot work unsupervised.

I can go on and on but I won't.

 

[Dragon]

Ha ha.
You must have inept drivers.
If they attempt a 3 day ride the sup will not hear me telling him all the ways he is helping me on the first day.
I will take mental note of them and each time I take a break they will be cataloged.

Then at the "3 day ride" attempted lock-in meeting they will hear the laundry list of ways the sup helped each day, how many times, and at which stops... from my Steward after the manager presents his case for lock-in numbers.

Manager response...stutter, Um, Well, I don't think we helped that much.

Steward..I think we are done here, end of meeting.

Never been locked-in in over 3 decades, and they have attempted many times.

Not sure who is training your sup's but I promise you it does not happen here.

 

[Dragon]

and again I respond.... good luck with that. I always advise drivers to do the methods meticulously when supervised. Ive only seen one driver at my center in 28 years gone for production. I like our odds

Most drivers don't know the methods..but they think they do..or should I say all of the methods.

 

[35years]

We start reviewing the next day with vOJS...then it's anything less then .10 with same stop count and work.

Reason is = if you have no problem dropping a 9.5 grievance or on my desk for going over by 9.5 by a few minutes then I got no problem giving you paper when you violate the 3 day ride. Remember contract works both ways...and I always find more when I have to start supervising you because you cannot work unsupervised.

I can go on and on but I won't.

Were in the contract does it say a driver must not "violate the 3 day ride"?

Crickets

 

[tourists24]

We start reviewing the next day with vOJS...then it's anything less then .10 with same stop count and work.

Reason is = if you have no problem dropping a 9.5 grievance or on my desk for going over by 9.5 by a few minutes then I got no problem giving you paper when you violate the 3 day ride. Remember contract works both ways...and I always find more when I have to start supervising you because you cannot work unsupervised.

I can go on and on but I won't.

And thus why things are the way they are.... good luck at panels..... Ive been at UPS for 28 years and only one job has been lost over production. The rest is just harassment and bs. You'll lose way way more than you will win. But it's all a game. I just tell drivers to make sure they giving an honest effort. We'll let guys like you do the rest

 

[10 Pt]

That's why the answer is everyday is different. Then when they say your spohr is lower than when supervised you say, because thats what it took that day.

Really different with a spotless and tailored load, reduced next day air commits, tighter dispatch (less miles) and the supe makes the driver start his pick-ups 15-30 min late to maximize spohr and reduce redundant returning to a residential area after pickups.

Their 3 day ride is typically a farce.

 

[Dragon]

Ha ha.
You must have inept drivers.
If they attempt a 3 day ride the sup will not hear me telling him all the ways he is helping me on the first day.
I will take mental note of them and each time I take a break they will be cataloged.

Then at the "3 day ride" attempted lock-in meeting they will hear the laundry list of ways the sup helped each day, how many times, and at which stops... from my Steward after the manager presents his case for lock-in numbers.

Manager response...stutter, Um, Well, I don't think we helped that much.

Steward..I think we are done here, end of meeting.

Never been locked-in in over 3 decades, and they have attempted many times.

You may have never been locked in but I bet some of your co-workers have, stop counts have gone up. It's not all technology - we are getting what we need from most of the drivers, so its a win.

 

[tourists24]

Were in the contract does it say a driver must not "violate the 3 day ride"?

Crickets

It doesn't. It's simply management using tools to try and get drivers to go faster. It's also the reason that good hard working drivers become disengaged and disgruntled with UPS in general. But this is the model they want to go with. We just have to play the game.

 

[35years]

Most drivers don't know the methods..but they think they do..or should I say all of the methods.

You may have never been locked in but I bet some of your co-workers have, stop counts have gone up. It's not all technology - we are getting what we need from most of the drivers, so its a win.

None fired over "violating the 3 day ride" here, ever.
Just a harassment technique, management and divers know it except the newbees.

 

[Dragon]

And thus why things are the way they are.... good luck at panels..... Ive been at UPS for 28 years and only one job has been lost over production. The rest is just harassment and bs. You'll lose way way more than you will win. But it's all a game. I just tell drivers to make sure they giving an honest effort. We'll let guys like you do the rest

Have stop counts gone up in your Center?? Yes they have and we are winning, it maybe BS to you but it works. We can see more and more everyday what you do on road with out even leaving the building. You just confirm what you are not doing when we get on the car.

 

[10 Pt]

And thus why things are the way they are.... good luck at panels..... Ive been at UPS for 28 years and only one job has been lost over production. The rest is just harassment and bs. You'll lose way way more than you will win. But it's all a game. I just tell drivers to make sure they giving an honest effort. We'll let guys like you do the rest

The one that lost his job for supervised unsupervised..
Was it that BA in 804 that pulled the building a few yrs ago?