Pension deductions?

[104Feeder]

No it's not.

Straight from the irs.gov

401(k) Plans - Deferrals and matching when compensation exceeds the annual limit
Unless your plan terms provide otherwise, the salary (elective) deferral limit is applied uniformly to the compensation that the employee receives throughout the year.

Compensation and contribution limits are subject to annual cost-of-living adjustments. The annual limits are:

• total employee and employer contributions (including forfeitures) - the lesser of 100% of an employee’s compensation or $53,000 for 2015 and 2016 (not including "catch-up" elective deferrals of $6,000 in 2015 and 2016 for employees age 50 or older)

401(k) Plans - Deferrals and matching when compensation exceeds the annual limit

OK read the title and explain to me how that applies to what you were proposing and we were discussing. No union member makes more than the annual limit of $260,000.

 

[104Feeder]

That document it hocus pocus and just as frightening as our pension plans!

How in the world can they pay $51,000/yr? $4000/yr contribution rate isn't nearly enough to support that pension amount.

That example isn't our UPS pension, it's showing what $4000 would be invested in either scenario. Our contribution is over $10/hr all compensible to 2080 hours so I'm using $20,800 for simplification. The distribution is based on a percentage of contributions made based on the hours you work.

 

[Brownslave688]

Book here....this has been an interesting read! First @UpstateNYUPSer there isn't a rule of 85. Second @Brownslave688 I can't figure out how the company can just put the pension monies into your 401k without them somehow being earned. I believe the amount thrown around was about $20,800. The percent that comes out of our checks and is put into the 401k is a percentage of our earnings. I'm confused on that whole scenario. Third @104Feeder, before the (all compensible hours) that you speak of in the WCTPF, you were paid up to 160 hours a month. If you reached that threshold you got the peer hours, which gave you a total of 173.3. The yearly total is 2079.6. Even with this (all compensible hours) that you speak of you have a max of, you guessed it 2080. February always had at least 20 days, so if you had a paid day for all 20 days you got your 160 hours and the peer. Fourth, and this is just me thinking here....isn't the limit that can be put into the 401k around $18,000.? How can you have both? @Brownslave688, if you got what you wanted and somehow the 401k was structured in such a way as to allow the pension contributions to be deposited into it, wouldn't all employees then have to wait until 59 1/2 to retire, I mean how liberal do you want this thing to be? If that were the case I do see an upside to our current pension system at UPS. @Wally, you bring up a great point about more teamster members and the state of pension funds. It will absolutely help, but you know who fights a little harder to keep this from happening than you know who who doesn't seem to fight hard enough!

The big downfall is the age. Although with failing pensions you'll likely see retirement ages increase there also.


The 401k individuals limit is 18k. Combined it's 53k. My wife combined with her employers contributions usually ends up with about 40k a year in hers. Just an example to show 18k isn't the limit.

 

[104Feeder]

Book here....this has been an interesting read! First @UpstateNYUPSer there isn't a rule of 85. Second @Brownslave688 I can't figure out how the company can just put the pension monies into your 401k without them somehow being earned. I believe the amount thrown around was about $20,800. The percent that comes out of our checks and is put into the 401k is a percentage of our earnings. I'm confused on that whole scenario. Third @104Feeder, before the (all compensible hours) that you speak of in the WCTPF, you were paid up to 160 hours a month. If you reached that threshold you got the peer hours, which gave you a total of 173.3. The yearly total is 2079.6. Even with this (all compensible hours) that you speak of you have a max of, you guessed it 2080. February always had at least 20 days, so if you had a paid day for all 20 days you got your 160 hours and the peer. Fourth, and this is just me thinking here....isn't the limit that can be put into the 401k around $18,000.? How can you have both? @Brownslave688, if you got what you wanted and somehow the 401k was structured in such a way as to allow the pension contributions to be deposited into it, wouldn't all employees then have to wait until 59 1/2 to retire, I mean how liberal do you want this thing to be? If that were the case I do see an upside to our current pension system at UPS. @Wally, you bring up a great point about more teamster members and the state of pension funds. It will absolutely help, but you know who fights a little harder to keep this from happening than you know who who doesn't seem to fight hard enough!

The annual plan coverage statements prior to 2002 show varying hours each month with a small "p" next to each if you had peer coverage. Looking at 1996 for example on mine I see 173 Jan; 168 Feb; 160 Mar; 173 Apr; 173 May; 160 Jun; 173 Jul; 173 Aug; 167.1 Sep; 173 Oct; 162 Nov; 173 Dec. Total for the year 2028.1. March I'm sure I had vacation for example.

$18,500 for this year, what they are proposing is a defined contribution which is done in the form of a SEP contribution, not an employer match.

YES exactly my point about the 59 1/2 to retire! That would add nearly 10 years to my career involuntarily! I don't know how he is figuring someone who started at age 35 or so, instead of PEER coverage they get to work til age 70 I guess.

 

[104Feeder]

The big downfall is the age. Although with failing pensions you'll likely see retirement ages increase there also.


The 401k individuals limit is 18k. Combined it's 53k. My wife combined with her employers contributions usually ends up with about 40k a year in hers. Just an example to show 18k isn't the limit.

Yet there is always this: In general, a DC plan provides much less security for the employee, and much less obligation for the employer, than a pension.

 

[Brownslave688]

OK read the title and explain to me how that applies to what you were proposing and we were discussing. No union member makes more than the annual limit of $260,000.

How Much can My Employer Contribute to my 401k?

Here's another example.

 

[104Feeder]

Book here....this has been an interesting read! First @UpstateNYUPSer there isn't a rule of 85. Second @Brownslave688 I can't figure out how the company can just put the pension monies into your 401k without them somehow being earned. I believe the amount thrown around was about $20,800. The percent that comes out of our checks and is put into the 401k is a percentage of our earnings. I'm confused on that whole scenario. Third @104Feeder, before the (all compensible hours) that you speak of in the WCTPF, you were paid up to 160 hours a month. If you reached that threshold you got the peer hours, which gave you a total of 173.3. The yearly total is 2079.6. Even with this (all compensible hours) that you speak of you have a max of, you guessed it 2080. February always had at least 20 days, so if you had a paid day for all 20 days you got your 160 hours and the peer. Fourth, and this is just me thinking here....isn't the limit that can be put into the 401k around $18,000.? How can you have both? @Brownslave688, if you got what you wanted and somehow the 401k was structured in such a way as to allow the pension contributions to be deposited into it, wouldn't all employees then have to wait until 59 1/2 to retire, I mean how liberal do you want this thing to be? If that were the case I do see an upside to our current pension system at UPS. @Wally, you bring up a great point about more teamster members and the state of pension funds. It will absolutely help, but you know who fights a little harder to keep this from happening than you know who who doesn't seem to fight hard enough!

I looked at 2014 with 2080 hours total. Annual contribution was $17,596.81. The PEER is on top of that, which brings it to roughly $20,800 according to Southwest Administrators. I hit the 2080 in the second week of October.

 

[Brownslave688]

Yet there is always this: In general, a DC plan provides much less security for the employee, and much less obligation for the employer, than a pension.

Not really. Markets crash you won't a pension either.


What it may lack i feel it makes up for in flexibility.

 

[104Feeder]

How Much can My Employer Contribute to my 401k?

Here's another example.

Reading more from the IRS website and not questionable internet links I think this is pertinent:

Although the purpose of this publication is to provide general information about retirement plans you can set up for your employees, it does not contain all the rules and exceptions that apply to these plans. You may need professional help and guidance.

.
Regardless, UPS isn't going to be dropping anywhere near $53,000 into your 401k plan

 

[104Feeder]

Not really. Markets crash you won't a pension either.


What it may lack i feel it makes up for in flexibility.

Our pension has weathered the economic downturn better than my 401k did for sure. If it were truly flexible then we could have it at Fidelity, Vanguard, or TIAA-CREF not Prudential.

 

[104Feeder]

Not very much money when you are in a multi employer plan.

You need to get your facts together.

No? The WCTPF is a multi-employer plan. I already listed some of the participants in my State.

 

[Brownslave688]

Reading more from the IRS website and not questionable internet links I think this is pertinent: .
Regardless, UPS isn't going to be dropping anywhere near $53,000 into your 401k plan

So instead of ok I'm wrong we get well ups wouldn't do it anyway.


Thank you that's exactly the type of person I assumed we were dealing with here.

 

[Brownslave688]

No? The WCTPF is a multi-employer plan. I already listed some of the participants in my State.

The majority of the flexibility comes post retirement.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

No? The WCTPF is a multi-employer plan. I already listed some of the participants in my State.

I'm talking about the difference between what the PBGC will payout for a a single employer plan versus a multi employer pension plan.

 

[Brownslave688]

Our pension has weathered the economic downturn better than my 401k did for sure. If it were truly flexible then we could have it at Fidelity, Vanguard, or TIAA-CREF not Prudential.

Your pension. Once again that's awesome. It's simply not the situation a majority of upsers are looking at.

 

[By The Book]

I looked at 2014 with 2080 hours total. Annual contribution was $17,596.81. The PEER is on top of that, which brings it to roughly $20,800 according to Southwest Administrators. I hit the 2080 in the second week of October.

If your talking about the WCTPT you only get the basic contribution rate...not basic plus peer. You get exactly what you posted in your first sentence,(the basic contribution amount). You will never be able to show me any pension contributions paid on your behalf between 2002 and current that are more than 2080 hours. All compensible hours means is you can have pension contributions on all hours worked but the cap is still 2080 a year.

 

[By The Book]

The annual plan coverage statements prior to 2002 show varying hours each month with a small "p" next to each if you had peer coverage. Looking at 1996 for example on mine I see 173 Jan; 168 Feb; 160 Mar; 173 Apr; 173 May; 160 Jun; 173 Jul; 173 Aug; 167.1 Sep; 173 Oct; 162 Nov; 173 Dec. Total for the year 2028.1. March I'm sure I had vacation for example.

Ok, a couple things come to mind here....1). Your pension office is screwing you, how do you get 160 hours and not the 17.3 for peer. 2). If your a pkg. car driver it looks as if you used code 5 on some of those days?,not a full 8 hours pay? In the WCTPT that I'm in once you are compensated for 160 hours, you get the 17.3 for peer for a total of 173.3. Vacation has nothing to do with it being short, those are at least paid at 8 hours a day. The shortage could also be a dead day in the month as well.

 

[By The Book]

The 401k individuals limit is 18k. Combined it's 53k. My wife combined with her employers contributions usually ends up with about 40k a year in hers. Just an example to show 18k isn't the limit.

So, in your case you may only be able to put in about 13k, if your wife does get about 40k in hers. This shows me you're not needing anything to change in your case with the pension being a 401k. You would have to pay more in taxes if you wanted to have all your pension monies deposited in your 401k account. Overtime is not your friend, am I right?

 

[By The Book]

I'm talking about the difference between what the PBGC will payout for a a single employer plan versus a multi employer pension plan.

Let's hope it doesn't get to that point!

 

[Brownslave688]

So, in your case you may only be able to put in about 13k, if your wife does get about 40k in hers. This shows me you're not needing anything to change in your case with the pension being a 401k. You would have to pay more in taxes if you wanted to have all your pension monies deposited in your 401k account. Overtime is not your friend, am I right?

No totally based on the individual. Has nothing to do with being married or a household thing.


Her 401k limit is 53k and mine is 53k. Totally seperate.