PVDs

[Whither]

@PT Car Washer

Maybe.... if UPS just paid the PT folks better ?

For a BA, this is a tasteless joke. I get you're picking low-hanging fruit against @PT Car Washer. Nevertheless part-timers are about 70 percent of the UPS hourly workforce. We need both more FT inside jobs and better pay for PTers. It won't solve all problems, of course, but it's a good start.

It is also bad form for a union officer to blame PTers for their sorry predicament. Our ancestors left them hung out to dry. "Churn" is real and it is the same problem we will face at Amazon if the IBT is serious about organizing Bezos's empire. And we should be serious about it.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

WAIT, WHAT!?!?!? You had "errors".

Until I became an Industrial Engineer!

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

So, you have your own special contract?

Did you get it from Dave?

Nope.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Not true in the Central. We're guaranteed 8 hrs pay per Article 12.7 of the Central Supplement, and the company admitted as much by paying out our ≥ 7.5 hr but < 8 hr grieves rather than carrying on the fight to regional panel (we call it JACs here). I have yet to get a clear, evidence-supported answer why 7.5 hrs paid is the magic # -- some reps say by local agreement, some say a panel decision, but my position remains the same. We are owed our guarantee per contract, unless we agree to take a code 05/pay actual. It is up to mgmt to do the managing; it is not our responsibility to ask for extra work.

Are you not reading the language ?

Section 7

"Each full-time employee put to work shall have a daily guarantee of eight (8) hours of work."

https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ups18centralregionsupp.pdf

 

[MyTripisCut]

Not true in the Central. We're guaranteed 8 hrs pay per Article 12.7 of the Central Supplement, and the company admitted as much by paying out our ≥ 7.5 hr but < 8 hr grieves rather than carrying on the fight to regional panel (we call it JACs here). I have yet to get a clear, evidence-supported answer why 7.5 hrs paid is the magic # -- some reps say by local agreement, some say a panel decision, but my position remains the same. We are owed our guarantee per contract, unless we agree to take a code 05/pay actual. It is up to mgmt to do the managing; it is not our responsibility to ask for extra work.

The question was weather it could be considered stealing time or not.

 

[100%]

You’re guaranteed 8 hours of work, not 8 hours of pay.

Not my job, not my problem. My job is to deliver what’s on the truck. I’m guaranteed 8hrs of pay everyday I show up. The 8hrs of work is their problem and their job title, not mine.

 

[100%]

As long as the company knows, and doesn't have any more work for you....



Funny.... the contract says that.




Section 7

"Each full-time employee put to work shall have a daily guarantee of eight (8) hours of work."

https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/ups18centralregionsupp.pdf

Yup, the wording is correct, but not my job to have the work, it’s my job to get my 8hrs pay everyday, that’s guaranteed by that language.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Not my job, not my problem. My job is to deliver what’s on the truck.

No problem there.

I’m guaranteed 8hrs of pay everyday I show up.

You're guaranteed 8 hrs of work.... for 8 hrs of pay.

Yup, the wording is correct, but not my job to have the work, it’s my job to get my 8hrs pay everyday, that’s guaranteed by that language.

If the company provides less than 8 hrs of work, it is incumbent upon you, to ask is there is anymore work

available to fulfill your 8 hr guarantee. If they say no.... problem solved. 8 hrs paid.

 

[MyTripisCut]

Not my job, not my problem. My job is to deliver what’s on the truck. I’m guaranteed 8hrs of pay everyday I show up. The 8hrs of work is their problem and their job title, not mine.

It’s not your problem til you sit around for three hours waiting for pickups and then try to pull this off.
And you’re still wrong. You’re guaranteed 8 hours of work. Not pay. You do you brother, I’m just here trying to help.

 

[Whither]

Are you not reading the language ?

I've successfully enforced Article 12.7 (Central). Before the company dug in its heels and permanently coded us all 05 here (and I gathered from my chat with Dennis Roberts this is also the case throughout the Central and possibly nationwide), I used to go into the office the next morning and enforce the guarantee on the spot without filing a grieve. Say I'd had the odd day where I punched after finishing my assigned work with 7.83 hrs paid, and they tried to sneak an unauthorized 05 on me. "My timecard was changed to pay actual without my consent. I never agreed to take a pay actual. Restore my guarantee." My center manager would begrudgingly comply, always muttering how I "need to call the center to see if there's more work available" if I'd be finished before 8 hrs. The center manager stopped doing that last spring. Then a couple months later the labor manager stopped paying out our grieves at locals.

Like I said, brother, the guarantee ultimately boils down to 8 hrs pay. It is on the company to provide the work; it is not on us hourlies to seek the work. Do you think the company deadlocked our pay guarantee grieves twice and suddenly decided to pay us out before the JAC hearings out of the goodness of its heart? UPS has no case: if they did they would've taken it to Dennis Roberts desk per Article 5 (Central). The default paycode for FT drivers is 06. By coding us 05, without consent, they are seriously violating the contract and stealing our wages. They are stealing union dues.

Again, Dennis Roberts told me he considers the practice wage theft and a strikeable issue per Article 5 (Central).

 

[Whither]

The question was weather it could be considered stealing time or not.

I would say this is the question: is it mgmt's job to manage or ours?

I always advise fellow Teamsters, CYA. I was finished w my assigned work in about 7 hrs last Friday. Double-time pay in the Central. They had already asked me on Weds if I wanted my 8. ("You already know the answer: I always want my 8 and I always get my 8.") I sent a message anyway. "Finished work, want my 8." Sat for 15 min. No response. "Haven't heard back, bringing it in." Punched with 7.54 on the clock. I will grieve it and get paid my guarantee -- double time for .46 hrs. The point is, we should not have to grieve to be made whole on the back end. As FT drivers our default paycodes should be set as 06, and our paycodes should only be changed to 05 by our expressed consent.

I've talked with stews from other centers at my building who scoffed at me on this issue. "If you want your 8, you ask for the work; it's a give and take relationship" and the like. These stews weren't correct. The company paid us out after threatening to go to regional panel. They paid us out because they are committing time card fraud and they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I've successfully enforced Article 12.7 (Central). Before the company dug in its heels and permanently coded us all 05 here (and I gathered from my chat with Dennis Roberts this is also the case throughout the Central and possibly nationwide), I used to go into the office the next morning and enforce the guarantee on the spot without filing a grieve. Say I'd had the odd day where I punched after finishing my assigned work with 7.83 hrs paid, and they tried to sneak an unauthorized 05 on me. "My timecard was changed to pay actual without my consent. I never agreed to take a pay actual. Restore my guarantee." My center manager would begrudgingly comply, always muttering how I "need to call the center to see if there's more work available" if I'd be finished before 8 hrs. The center manager stopped doing that last spring. Then a couple months later the labor manager stopped paying out our grieves at locals.

Like I said, brother, the guarantee ultimately boils down to 8 hrs pay. It is on the company to provide the work; it is not on us hourlies to seek the work. Do you think the company deadlocked our pay guarantee grieves twice and suddenly decided to pay us out before the JAC hearings out of the goodness of its heart? UPS has no case: if they did they would've taken it to Dennis Roberts desk per Article 5 (Central). The default paycode for FT drivers is 06. By coding us 05, without consent, they are seriously violating the contract and stealing our wages. They are stealing union dues.

Again, Dennis Roberts told me he considers the practice wage theft and a strikeable issue per Article 5 (Central).

I am totally with you on the 05 issue brother. I remember hearing about it back in 2015.

The only problem is.... too many brown nose company bootlickers, that won't enforce the language

and are willing to run their lunch and breaks just to get off early. It's wrong, when a driver has an approved 8-hour

request.. makes the time.. and comes in to see other trucks on the dock and the drivers long gone.

 

[100%]

No problem there.



You're guaranteed 8 hrs of work.... for 8 hrs of pay.



If the company provides less than 8 hrs of work, it is incumbent upon you, to ask is there is anymore work

available to fulfill your 8 hr guarantee. If they say no.... problem solved. 8 hrs paid.

Yup. I’ve already demanded my 8. If I show up, I’m guaranteed 8. If I don’t have 8, I sit to get it. Not my job to dispatch my route at 4pm, dispatch guy does that in the morning. That’s his job, not mine. If we need a new dispatch supervisor, hire one. Lol I can nit pick and twist the contract just like UPS does, but the basic language is, I am guaranteed 8 hrs everyday I come to work. My paycheck will be minimum 40hrs if I come to work everyday, bc I’m guaranteed that minimum.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Yup. I’ve already demanded my 8. If I show up, I’m guaranteed 8. If I don’t have 8, I sit to get it. Not my job to dispatch my route at 4pm, dispatch guy does that in the morning. That’s his job, not mine. If we need a new dispatch supervisor, hire one. Lol I can nit pick and twist the contract just like UPS does, but the basic language is, I am guaranteed 8 hrs everyday I come to work. My paycheck will be minimum 40hrs if I come to work everyday, bc I’m guaranteed that minimum.

I hear ya. Just CYA.

If you gotta sit to get your 8.... make sure the company knows.... and don't try and play dumb.

 

[100%]

I hear ya. Just CYA.

If you gotta sit to get your 8.... make sure the company knows.... and don't try and play dumb.

Been here long enough to know how it works. They know. I show up to work or I stay home. Nothing in between.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Been here long enough to know how it works.

Roger that.

It is incumbent upon us, to discuss these issues and help educate the other members ?

 

[100%]

Roger that.

It is incumbent upon us, to discuss these issues and help educate the other members ?

Yes sir.

 

[Whither]

I am totally with you on the 05 issue brother. I remember hearing about it back in 2015.

Good to hear. If your drivers in your buildings had their paycodes changed in their boards to 05 (here we cannot even edit the code back to 06, that option has been disabled), would you file an ET AL grieve over it? I have tried to get my BA to do so, and since he hasn't followed up, I am trying to get an entire group of drivers behind it too.

The only problem is.... too many brown nose company bootlickers, that won't enforce the language

and are willing to run their lunch and breaks just to get off early.

I agree that's a serious problem, and I think, at bottom, these drivers are intimidated by the company. The only way to challenge that is via slow, patient organizing work. Like O'Brien has said, we have to encourage and help lift up our brothers and sisters who lack "the intestinal fortitude" to enforce their rights and hold the company accountable.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Been here long enough to know how it works. They know. I show up to work or I stay home. Nothing in between.

Same here. If you would like me to have a day off, tell me before I come in otherwise I’m working and getting my eight.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Good to hear. If your drivers in your buildings had their paycodes changed in their boards to 05 (here we cannot even edit the code back to 06, that option has been disabled), would you file an ET AL grieve over it? I have tried to get my BA to do so, and since he hasn't followed up, I am trying to get an entire group of drivers behind it too.


I agree that's a serious problem, and I think, at bottom, these drivers are intimidated by the company. The only way to challenge that is via slow, patient organizing work. Like O'Brien has said, we have to encourage and help lift up our brothers and sisters who lack "the intestinal fortitude" to enforce their rights and hold the company accountable.

Last time I was at a panel with an ET Al grievance, it got slapped down. The panel would much rather see a pile of grievances on the same issue from separate people. Of course, the problem with that is getting some weak members to file.