Sad Sacks

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
But Trump and the Republicans would like to cut funding for programs AND cut taxes. That just doesn't make any sense. I could respect a Republican that just says, "We're going to freeze or cut x% from A, B, and C, hold tax rates steady and put the savings towards the debt. We will structure these funding cuts to be cyclical through the various government agencies over the next 4 years so that no one sector is irreparably harmed."

It would be a strategy of shared responsibility and one that agencies could plan for. But that's not what we get. We get the same tire lines about tax cuts to stimulate the economy but then the recipients that benefit the most from the tax cuts cite "uncertainty" as a reason not to grow the economy. Think about that. American business afraid to take risk; cowering in the face of "uncertainty". What a bunch of babies.
They could eliminate all of my corporate income tax and I still wouldn't hire anymore people than I actually need. That's true of every business, no jobs are created with tax cuts. Now if poor people had more money and started buying more crap that I had to haul, I'd hire more people to do it.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
They could eliminate all of my corporate income tax and I still wouldn't hire anymore people than I actually need. That's true of every business, no jobs are created with tax cuts. Now if poor people had more money and started buying more crap that I had to haul, I'd hire more people to do it.
94% of the Bush tax cuts went to the wealthiest 3% of the population. Now after hiding billions in off shore accounts in order to escape US taxes the Reps want to repatriate that money tax free. Wouldn't that have been great if the rest of us could have access to this type of willful tax evasion.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
But Trump and the Republicans would like to cut funding for programs AND cut taxes. That just doesn't make any sense. I could respect a Republican that just says, "We're going to freeze or cut x% from A, B, and C, hold tax rates steady and put the savings towards the debt. We will structure these funding cuts to be cyclical through the various government agencies over the next 4 years so that no one sector is irreparably harmed."

It would be a strategy of shared responsibility and one that agencies could plan for. But that's not what we get. We get the same tire lines about tax cuts to stimulate the economy but then the recipients that benefit the most from the tax cuts cite "uncertainty" as a reason not to grow the economy. Think about that. American business afraid to take risk; cowering in the face of "uncertainty". What a bunch of babies.
It's not just tax cuts. The Obama administration added a huge amount of regulations that cost business serious money in compliance. If you have to pay up front to do business knowing the current administration was seeking to raise your taxes also would you be keen to create or grow new business? The Obama administration needed to do everything possible to get people back to work. They didn't.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
They could eliminate all of my corporate income tax and I still wouldn't hire anymore people than I actually need. That's true of every business, no jobs are created with tax cuts. Now if poor people had more money and started buying more crap that I had to haul, I'd hire more people to do it.
And yet those in small business doing well won't pay their employees any more than they have to so that they can keep more for themselves. An improved economy that gives them opportunities to grow their business and make them compete for workers will improve their workers' lot. Otherwise you have employees needing to be subsidized by the gov't, which makes y'all rail against the likes of FedEx Ground and Wal-Mart.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
94% of the Bush tax cuts went to the wealthiest 3% of the population. Now after hiding billions in off shore accounts in order to escape US taxes the Reps want to repatriate that money tax free. Wouldn't that have been great if the rest of us could have access to this type of willful tax evasion.
Actually Trump is talking about them paying a I believe 10% penalty to repatriate it. And those businesses took advantage of legal loopholes like establishing their corporate headquarters in places like Ireland. Makes you wonder why they would do so since the prevailing opinion here is that businesses don't pay taxes.
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
Actually Trump is talking about them paying a I believe 10% penalty to repatriate it. And those businesses took advantage of legal loopholes like establishing their corporate headquarters in places like Ireland. Makes you wonder why they would do so since the prevailing opinion here is that businesses don't pay taxes.
This was already done in 2004, but with a 5% penalty. It didn't work.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
It's not just tax cuts. The Obama administration added a huge amount of regulations that cost business serious money in compliance. If you have to pay up front to do business knowing the current administration was seeking to raise your taxes also would you be keen to create or grow new business? The Obama administration needed to do everything possible to get people back to work. They didn't.
True. It's not just tax cuts. But all you are doing is pointing fingers. I'm saying go ahead and and cut spending...just leave the tax rates alone as a step to cutting the debt IF they are serious about cutting the debt. I have my doubts that they care beyond the campaign speak.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
And yet those in small business doing well won't pay their employees any more than they have to so that they can keep more for themselves. An improved economy that gives them opportunities to grow their business and make them compete for workers will improve their workers' lot. Otherwise you have employees needing to be subsidized by the gov't, which makes y'all rail against the likes of FedEx Ground and Wal-Mart.
Fact: welfare to the bottom goes back into the economy.

Fact: corporate welfare makes fat lazy businessmen.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
And yet those in small business doing well won't pay their employees any more than they have to so that they can keep more for themselves. An improved economy that gives them opportunities to grow their business and make them compete for workers will improve their workers' lot. Otherwise you have employees needing to be subsidized by the gov't, which makes y'all rail against the likes of FedEx Ground and Wal-Mart.
You're arguing my point. How does giving tax breaks to corporations improve the economy? Owners will pocket the difference and that money won't be spent. Give the breaks to the workers and they'll spend it all, stimulating the economy.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
You're arguing my point. How does giving tax breaks to corporations improve the economy? Owners will pocket the difference and that money won't be spent. Give the breaks to the workers and they'll spend it all, stimulating the economy.
What VT doesn't seem to understand is that ours is a consumption based economy. X serves that economy. VT believes that all you have to do is to cut taxes to the wealthy elite to zero or less and they will reinvest it in the economy . What he doesn't seem to understand is that there first has to be a demand for products and services and available at affordable prices. All I needed to learn about the economy came years ago from a man with a fifth grade education when he said " The economy is driven by one thing and one thing only.The ability of poor people to get credit". Cutting taxes to the wealthy elite guarantees only one thing. A Treasury short on money. And therefore how will Trump's multi billion dollar infrastructure plan be funded? Borrowed money.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
What VT doesn't seem to understand is that ours is a consumption based economy. X serves that economy. VT believes that all you have to do is to cut taxes to the wealthy elite to zero or less and they will reinvest it in the economy . What he doesn't seem to understand is that there first has to be a demand for products and services and available at affordable prices. All I needed to learn about the economy came years ago from a man with a fifth grade education when he said " The economy is driven by one thing and one thing only.The ability of poor people to get credit". Cutting taxes to the wealthy elite guarantees only one thing. A Treasury short on money. And therefore how will Trump's multi billion dollar infrastructure plan be funded? Borrowed money.
All of this is a bunch of hokem. Cut taxes to zero or less for the wealthy? Really? The poor already pay very little in taxes. The wealthiest 10% already pay about half of income taxes. All you want to do is slam the rich because they're doing better than you. The politics of envy. Want to help the poor? Give them decent jobs. Won't happen in the current environment. Democrats know if the poor aren't dependent on gov't assistance then they lose elections. So keep them down with scaremongering. Y'all can distort facts all you want but fact is that Obama had 8 years to turn things around and with trillions spent he didn't.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
All of this is a bunch of hokem. Cut taxes to zero or less for the wealthy? Really? The poor already pay very little in taxes. The wealthiest 10% already pay about half of income taxes. All you want to do is slam the rich because they're doing better than you. The politics of envy. Want to help the poor? Give them decent jobs. Won't happen in the current environment. Democrats know if the poor aren't dependent on gov't assistance then they lose elections. So keep them down with scaremongering. Y'all can distort facts all you want but fact is that Obama had 8 years to turn things around and with trillions spent he didn't.
You realize he had to turn things around after 8 years of Bush and republican policy tanked the economy right? Or are you going to blame that on someone else too?
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
You realize he had to turn things around after 8 years of Bush and republican policy tanked the economy right? Or are you going to blame that on someone else too?
No, but I love how you lay all of that on Bush. I read very thorough articles on who was to blame for the crash in both USA Today and the New York Times. Bush was partially to blame. So were some major Democrats, particularly Dodd and Frank, who pressured banks to make millions of loans to people who couldn't afford them. But you never hear that from Democrats. Bush, Bush, Bush all day long. And you can allow Obama some leeway for a few years, but when he expands gov't benefits and doesn't do anything to help business, just throws money at some businesses that were major donors, then at some point he owns the economy. Laugh at me, mock me, scream at me, doesn't change the fact that enough Democrats in key, normally blue, states saw through all that and voted Trump.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
No, but I love how you lay all of that on Bush. I read very thorough articles on who was to blame for the crash in both USA Today and the New York Times. Bush was partially to blame. So were some major Democrats, particularly Dodd and Frank, who pressured banks to make millions of loans to people who couldn't afford them. But you never hear that from Democrats. Bush, Bush, Bush all day long. And you can allow Obama some leeway for a few years, but when he expands gov't benefits and doesn't do anything to help business, just throws money at some businesses that were major donors, then at some point he owns the economy. Laugh at me, mock me, scream at me, doesn't change the fact that enough Democrats in key, normally blue, states saw through all that and voted Trump.
Dodd Frank was created in the aftermath of the 2008 collapse which was driven for the most part by the repeal of Glass Steagal which kept the merchant banks and the investment banks separate from one another. Not to mention a war in Iraq based on fabricated intelligence drained the federal treasury and combined with the Bush tax cuts which did nothing for the economy. So what can we expect from Trump?. Pretty much the same thing . The only real difference is that people in the lowest tax bracket will see their tax rate go UP from 10% to 12 % along with inflation and an annual deficit going from the current 586 billion to 1.5 Trillion along with GDP growth pretty much where it is now around 2%. And when 2020 rolls around his own party will do a Nixon and tell Trump......"Get out before we throw you out".
 

Oldfart

Well-Known Member
Dodd Frank was created in the aftermath of the 2008 collapse which was driven for the most part by the repeal of Glass Steagal which kept the merchant banks and the investment banks separate from one another. Not to mention a war in Iraq based on fabricated intelligence drained the federal treasury and combined with the Bush tax cuts which did nothing for the economy. So what can we expect from Trump?. Pretty much the same thing . The only real difference is that people in the lowest tax bracket will see their tax rate go UP from 10% to 12 % along with inflation and an annual deficit going from the current 586 billion to 1.5 Trillion along with GDP growth pretty much where it is now around 2%. And when 2020 rolls around his own party will do a Nixon and tell Trump......"Get out before we throw you out".
WOW Not much more you can say but WOW. He said everyone should not own FDX stock which hit $191 last Friday, up about $60 YTD and he now thinks he is a financial genius. LOL
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Dodd Frank was created in the aftermath of the 2008 collapse which was driven for the most part by the repeal of Glass Steagal which kept the merchant banks and the investment banks separate from one another. Not to mention a war in Iraq based on fabricated intelligence drained the federal treasury and combined with the Bush tax cuts which did nothing for the economy. So what can we expect from Trump?. Pretty much the same thing . The only real difference is that people in the lowest tax bracket will see their tax rate go UP from 10% to 12 % along with inflation and an annual deficit going from the current 586 billion to 1.5 Trillion along with GDP growth pretty much where it is now around 2%. And when 2020 rolls around his own party will do a Nixon and tell Trump......"Get out before we throw you out".
The Bush economy was humming pretty good after his tax cuts and Dodd and Frank WERE responsible for pushing banks to make bad loans long before 2008. You can only predict the future, but what happened in the past can either be honestly appraised or lied about. Again, enough Democrats voted for Trump to win the presidency. Take it up with them.
 

Fred's Myth

Nonhyphenated American
A statement like this makes you sound like a real scum bad. Downplaying human rights like a transgender person doesn't matter.
Transgender rights as the top priority of the President? Has the Office of the President of the United States completely lost its sense? That sounds like an Extreme Left agenda, that doesn't serve the needs of the nation. Counterbalance it by including the Rights of the Unborn, and it might have a broader appeal...something both sides want, attached to something both sides find distasteful.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
WOW Not much more you can say but WOW. He said everyone should not own FDX stock which hit $191 last Friday, up about $60 YTD and he now thinks he is a financial genius. LOL
Fedex stock always does good in the second and third quarters of the fiscal year. That's when they make all their money. Secondly I have modest but meaningful investments in around 30 different issues that encompasses a wide range of the economy. I never said that I was financial genius. If I was I wouldn't need the services of a financial adviser. However it doesn't take a financial adviser or genius to know that investment diversification is mandatory in today's economy.
 

bacha29

Well-Known Member
The Bush economy was humming pretty good after his tax cuts and Dodd and Frank WERE responsible for pushing banks to make bad loans long before 2008. You can only predict the future, but what happened in the past can either be honestly appraised or lied about. Again, enough Democrats voted for Trump to win the presidency. Take it up with them.
Dodd Frank was introduced in the summer of 2009 in an effort to rein in the big banks after the government had to either bail them out or nationalize them. The bill which included the creation of the Consumer Protection Bureau was signed into law the following year and despite all the pouting and crying the banks have no one to blame but themselves.
 
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