Safety Co-Chair offer.

[dannyboy]

Danny thats a powerful argument that can be used in defense of chasing many different safety improvements. Unfortunately the system does not reward good intentions. It does however penalize me if I make a decision to modify equipment that results in someone either getting hurt or dying. Thats the sad fact of things.

tie, in many walks of life, there is a hard price to pay when always doing the right thing.

in my personal life, i can tell you dozens of times were a lie would have made the road easier, the punishment less severe. but a downward spiral in your moral code really does not happen all at once, it happens incrementally, just like the changes at ups. all it takes is going this far this time, the next time a bit further, and then after a while, you dont even know yourself anymore.

ups can do the right thing and protect itself from lawsuits if it chooses. or it can leave things as they are and hide behind federal minimums like they are now.

the ups i used to know would stand up and do the right thing.

d

 

[Brown_Eyed_Girl]

If you have ever resigned from the safety commitee, how did you do so? Basically just tell them you did not want to be on it anymore?

 

[trplnkl]

If you have ever resigned from the safety commitee, how did you do so? Basically just tell them you did not want to be on it anymore?

That worked for me.

 

[tieguy]

tie, in many walks of life, there is a hard price to pay when always doing the right thing.

in my personal life, i can tell you dozens of times were a lie would have made the road easier, the punishment less severe. but a downward spiral in your moral code really does not happen all at once, it happens incrementally, just like the changes at ups. all it takes is going this far this time, the next time a bit further, and then after a while, you dont even know yourself anymore.

ups can do the right thing and protect itself from lawsuits if it chooses. or it can leave things as they are and hide behind federal minimums like they are now.

the ups i used to know would stand up and do the right thing.

d

Don't discount the consequences of violating the federal minimum. In todays world the manager that signs off on that vehicle modification can go to jail if it gets screwed up.

 

[dannyboy]

tie

if the company and the vehicle manufacturer went up to osha and said that they believe that the current two point seat belt is not good enough for the employees, and that both would work toward a safer solution, but would need guarantees that the solution, when tested and implimented, that there would be goverment guarantees that they would be immune to lawsuits, that osha would have a problem with that? or the union. or the employees?

you are confusing vehicle modifications with safety issues. and while modifications can cause safety issues, like trailer hitches being retro fitted onto package cars, safety issues that lead to modifications are a different animal.

i understand the issue of lawsuits. but that can be legally sidesteped if done properly.

d

 

[tieguy]

nice thought danny. I've had enough exposure to the issue of modifying equipment to know there would be serious concerns about undertaking the modification of a restraining device. Other then that I'm not the CEO and can't defend it.

 

[Stran]

On the question of 3 point seatbelts, and the related discussion of liability, I would like to quote from UPS founder Jim Casey on "Ethics in our business"(1959)
A self-test
So let us ask ourslves a few questions:
Are we always careful not to engage in practices that would give false impressions of our company?
Are we careful not to ask or expect people to accept conditions of work that we would be unwilling to accept if we were in their place?
...Why then do we ever act in ways that our innermost conscience would disapprove? Why are we ever so blind that we fail to see we will gain and not lose if we summon our courage to do what is right in our dealings with others?
Emphasis is all mine but the principle holds true. We are one of the leaders in innovation in pkg car technologies, hydrolics, alternative fuels, a leader in green tech in transportation yet we lose respect with our employees over an easy fix?
If what Casey said is true we should be the leader in fixing the deficiencies in our vehicles. Is there money to be made in it?? Doubtful...but are there lives to be saved and valued...YES!
I guess you can tell where I side on this issue. Do what is right!

 

[NotGonnaTakeIt]

delete

 

[stevetheupsguy]

If you have ever resigned from the safety commitee, how did you do so? Basically just tell them you did not want to be on it anymore?

I told them that I didn't want to be the safety stooge anymore because I didn't agree with what I "wasn't" doing for safety. I must say that the most important thing I took from the safety committee was keeping myself safe. I am now doing things on the road to keep myself safe that I wasn't doing previously. If this is the case, UPS should have all of the drivers rotate as the safety stooge, if only to improve upon their own unsafe habits.

Oh, and btw BEG, your avatar is quite creepy.

 

[djkre8r]

I have been a Non Management Safety Co-Chair for our preload for a few years. Normally one day a month I get to take the whole shift to do JHAs, redo the bulletin boards, safety audits, etc. Since we have a small sort (12-13 preloaders) we only have 3 on the committee. I rotate the previous mentioned duties with the other guys as a courtesy of getting a "free day". I lead the meetings and sign the forms. Sometimes I stay later than the others to do audits on the drivers as they do thier pre-trip. When we get a new hire, I come in early and show them around the building (PED exits, assembly area, eye wash station, etc). If you like to be a "leader" then I would say go for it! Good luck!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

I have been a Non Management Safety Co-Chair for our preload for a few years. Normally one day a month I get to take the whole shift to do JHAs, redo the bulletin boards, safety audits, etc. Since we have a small sort (12-13 preloaders) we only have 3 on the committee. I rotate the previous mentioned duties with the other guys as a courtesy of getting a "free day". I lead the meetings and sign the forms. Sometimes I stay later than the others to do audits on the drivers as they do thier pre-trip. When we get a new hire, I come in early and show them around the building (PED exits, assembly area, eye wash station, etc). If you like to be a "leader" then I would say go for it! Good luck!

There is one person on the saftey commitee in our building who has had "free days" for the past 6 months, doing safety audits . Please explain how this is allowed?

 

[djkre8r]

In our center the committee gets to do JHAs once per month. All the others times they are done by PT Supervisors. Every morning they ask "Who wants to go home today?" (we always have 1 or 2 extra people). Since we have extras that is just one day nobody gets to go home. It works better for them to code us as safety than let us do it on OT. Plus coding safety probably looks good too.

Last week we just completed 2 years CENTER WIDE with no injuries!!!!!

 

[stevetheupsguy]

In our center the committee gets to do JHAs once per month. All the others times they are done by PT Supervisors. Every morning they ask "Who wants to go home today?" (we always have 1 or 2 extra people). Since we have extras that is just one day nobody gets to go home. It works better for them to code us as safety than let us do it on OT. Plus coding safety probably looks good too.

Last week we just completed 2 years CENTER WIDE with no injuries!!!!!

Now is that no injuries or, no "reported" injuries?

 

[djkre8r]

No injuries. We have been doing a great job.

 

[tieguy]

Now is that no injuries or, no "reported" injuries?

Be nice its probably no dart injuries.

 

[dannyboy]

steve

im sorry your exposure to the safety committee was less than what you expected. could be a large number of different things that contributed to the failure.

i did find that at times management was inclined to minimize the efforts of the union involvment in the committee, but we used the union process as a way to keep the safety committee on track.

one thing i have noticed is a them and us mentality on this site when it comes to members of this forum and committee members. thats a shame. we are all after the same goal, to work safe, and everybody goes home in the same shape as they showed up.

d

 

[tieguy]

Agreed.

being part of the safety committee is a grind. sometimes you take many small steps where you don't really see the improvement until you come up for air months or even years later. But I've seen the safety culture change because of committed safety committe members making a difference. Steves use of the phrase "stooge" was particularly dissapointing. UPS has a safety script that meets Osha guidelines. That script works for those who want to work the safety issues but really need the structure of that script. Many others work well on their own and their leadership allows them to step outside and beyond that script.

Sleeve asked how someone could have worked nothing but safety for six months. My guess that person has proven his value to the operation that he now does nothing but safety related work.

 

[dannyboy]

Sleeve asked how someone could have worked nothing but safety for six months. My guess that person has proven his value to the operation that he now does nothing but safety related work.

tie

while not six months, i did do some travel to other centers to try to help with driver groups that resisted the program.

what i found were drivers that were intimidated by management, or management that saw safety as another flavor of the month, and were not interested in real change.

the real change comes from real commitment from the top down. not just for being able to pass keter, but to actually exceed what osha demands when possible. not just to drop reportable injuries, but to eliminate all injuries. period. as in the example i have quoted many times, the electrical supply to the fans on the end of the mobile arms for the unloaders that were frayed and cut. that damage did not occur over just a few days since the last audit, it had been overlooked by several auditors, including two keter audits.

one of the biggest reasons they asked me to go was also the fact that we had a very active union participation on the committee. that kept the on road observations done as a learn tool, instead of disciplinary. only when a driver continued with unsafe behavior was progressive discipline considered (ie lack of using seat belt after you have been told is the big one.) only in cases, like the one i posted about a few weeks back, where the driver left the keys in the car, with the door open, while he was gone for 15+ minutes, after being told, and after the second time, it being in writing, would discipline be used. but it is never ever done by something the safety committee observed, only management.

but all that being said, some managers mis use the safety committee as a personal tool to get even with those they dont like. so i understand why in some centers, and even districts, why it wont work like it did here.

d