SCOTUS Upholds the ACA

floridays

Well-Known Member
Lol. Does this mean you concede that healthcare is overpriced? Very well, I accept.

As for unaccountable government programs, I'll have to assume you are feigning ignorance. I'll give you one quick example: federally guaranteed student loans remove any incentive, therefore creating a lack of accountability, for keeping college tuition rates affordable. Check mate.
That said, they also allow ( make possible) colleges to raise tuition prices well beyond any good, service or commodity being offered, while still never delivering the offering in most cases.

Beyond that the "government" pushes a college education for all.

Why?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I've got a simple question, actually two for you.

The first

As a US citizen with a minimum of 40 quarters credited under the SSI system is @vantexan eligible, even granted the right under the system to receive his payment even if domiciled in another nation?

Yes or No

The second

Is @vantexan eligible, even granted the same right, if domiciled, to his medicare portion in another nation.

Yes or No

Please explain why not?
I would say yes to both. I think the questions arise when someone benefits from government programs bitches and whines about others benefiting from government programs, well that just seems self serving and wishy washy.
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
when someone benefits from government programs bitches and whines about others benefiting from government programs, well that just seems self serving and wishy washy.
If a thief robs you, then later returns your money, are you going to refuse it because you're against theft? If you accept it, are you now a hypocrite to speak against theft?

Your logic seems self serving and wishy washy.
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
I would say yes to both. I think the questions arise when someone benefits from government programs bitches and whines about others benefiting from government programs, well that just seems self serving and wishy washy.
If your premise was correct I might be persuaded.

I do understand the difference between confiscated or payroll deduction and freebies granted to some from taxation, a further confiscation. You don't see the difference?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
If your premise was correct I might be persuaded.

I do understand the difference between confiscated or payroll deduction and freebies granted to some from taxation, a further confiscation. You don't see the difference?
No. I look at it like this.

You go to work and start saving for retirement (Social Security). You set it up in an account and dutifully pay into it week after week, year after year. Along the way you buy a big house, a badass pickup truck, a winter home in Florida. Life is good!

But then, there are other things. Thing paid on credit cards, health issues, a divorce and a hotter younger wife…you know, the REALLY good things. Problem is, you can’t really afford them.

And when you end up in bankruptcy court and the judge starts looking at your retirement account, you have the audacity to yell, “But that’s for my retirement!”

In actuality, both Social Security/Medicare and the ACA are federal laws that mandate taxation with a designated use for that taxation. Claiming one to be legitimate and the other somehow fraudulent is factually wrong. Painting one as noble and the other as nefarious is a matter of partisan theater.

It all boils down to a simple fact. We want what we want and we don’t want to pay for it.
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
No. I look at it like this.

You go to work and start saving for retirement (Social Security). You set it up in an account and dutifully pay into it week after week, year after year. Along the way you buy a big house, a badass pickup truck, a winter home in Florida. Life is good!

But then, there are other things. Thing paid on credit cards, health issues, a divorce and a hotter younger wife…you know, the REALLY good things. Problem is, you can’t really afford them.

And when you end up in bankruptcy court and the judge starts looking at your retirement account, you have the audacity to yell, “But that’s for my retirement!”

In actuality, both Social Security/Medicare and the ACA are federal laws that mandate taxation with a designated use for that taxation. Claiming one to be legitimate and the other somehow fraudulent is factually wrong. Painting one as noble and the other as nefarious is a matter of partisan theater.

It all boils down to a simple fact. We want what we want and we don’t want to pay for it.
To use your scenario I look at it like this.

Before I could ever get that badass truck, the winter home in Florida, nice house and everything else you designated, my opportunity to do each times two or whatever multiple was reduced because the government felt the need (payroll deduction) to protect my future and confiscated a portion to provide for my future. Then when I claim payment on what was confiscated I'm looked at a horrible person if I happen to complain or mention that some who haven't contributed receive more than me, a member who funded the ponzi scheme.

Explain your point again, make sense this time.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
To use your scenario I look at it like this.

Before I could ever get that badass truck, the winter home in Florida, nice house and everything else you designated, my opportunity to do each times two or whatever multiple was reduced because the government felt the need (payroll deduction) to protect my future and confiscated a portion to provide for my future. Then when I claim payment on what was confiscated I'm looked at a horrible person if I happen to complain or mention that some who haven't contributed receive more than me, a member who funded the ponzi scheme.

Explain your point again, make sense this time.
Because we as a country don’t “pay as we go”. We don’t stay within budget. We buy on credit and expect future generations to pay for it.

So why is one government program acceptable and the other not? Don’t hurt your brain. This isn’t so difficult.
 
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bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
To use your scenario I look at it like this.

Before I could ever get that badass truck, the winter home in Florida, nice house and everything else you designated, my opportunity to do each times two or whatever multiple was reduced because the government felt the need (payroll deduction) to protect my future and confiscated a portion to provide for my future. Then when I claim payment on what was confiscated I'm looked at a horrible person if I happen to complain or mention that some who haven't contributed receive more than me, a member who funded the ponzi scheme.

Explain your point again, make sense this time.
You may have funded the Ponzi scheme but that doesn’t mean you paid for unfunded wars, the war on drugs, the Cold War, and everything else that Americans decided they wanted but didn’t want to pay for through taxes.
 
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floridays

Well-Known Member
Because we as a country don’t “pay as we go”. We don’t stay within budget. We buy on credit and expect future generations to pay for it.

So why is one government program acceptable and the other not. Don’t hurt your brain. This isn’t so difficult.
The first mistake you made was making an assumption.
You assumed I think social security was an acceptable program for government to inflict.

I find absolutely no basis for it in our Federal Constitution.

Trust me, you can hurt or cause my brain to hurt through thought.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
The first mistake you made was making an assumption.
You assumed I think social security was an acceptable program for government to inflict.

I find absolutely no basis for it in our Federal Constitution.

Trust me, you can hurt or cause my brain to hurt through thought.
It doesn’t matter if you think it’s acceptable or not though. It is a reality.
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
You may have funded the Ponzi scheme but that doesn’t mean you paid for unfounded wars, the war on drugs, the Cold War, and everything else that Americans decided they wanted but didn’t want to pay for through taxes.
I'll follow you line of thinking and for argument sake just agree.. We screwed up in the past, have dug a hole, let's keep digging.

Is that your solution?
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
I'll follow you line of thinking and for argument sake just agree.. We screwed up in the past, have dug a hole, let's keep digging.

Is that your solution?
Nope. We ARE GOING to keep digging. Nothing from either party suggests that will end.

Now are we building a foundation or a grave? That is yet to be determined.
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
It doesn’t matter if you think it’s acceptable or not though. It is a reality.
It is reality, each wage earner has skin in the game, money is confiscated from each and every paycheck for their (individual) supposed benefit. Not so when the government taxes an individual for the proposed benefit of another person or group that is not the future benefit.

Remember where this started, it may help you in your thinking. It began with @bacha29 busting @vantexan 's balls once again for collecting social security payments. A true entitlement in my view strictly because of his contributions (confiscated wages.)
 

floridays

Well-Known Member
Nope. We ARE GOING to keep digging. Nothing from either party suggests that will end.

Now are we building a foundation or a grave? That is yet to be determined.
I agree, neither party is clean. It is a grave. I made that claim a couple years ago.
This country is lost, I will still fight for her existence as founded however.
 

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
It is reality, each wage earner has skin in the game, money is confiscated from each and every paycheck for their (individual) supposed benefit. Not so when the government taxes an individual for the proposed benefit of another person or group that is not the future benefit.

Remember where this started, it may help you in your thinking. It began with @bacha29 busting @vantexan 's balls once again for collecting social security payments. A true entitlement in my view strictly because of his contributions (confiscated wages.)
But it is the “future benefit” as well as the current benefit.

In American capitalism fueled by consumerism the health and well-being of its citizens is at least as fundamental as protecting the homeland against foreign invasion. Probably cheaper too.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Because we as a country don’t “pay as we go”. We don’t stay within budget. We buy on credit and expect future generations to pay for it.

So why is one government program acceptable and the other not. Don’t hurt your brain. This isn’t so difficult.
It's different because one program benefits all who work and is separate from the overall Federal budget. SS is independent. The other benefits a specific group at the expense of everyone else. People who didn't already have insurance through employment were forced to buy into the new program or pay a penalty. It was the first time the Federal government mandated citizens to buy something they may not have wanted. And in order to make it work since they were required to cover preexisting conditions insurers had to increase premiums and limit benefits for everyone else. So employment insurance for most now is primarily catastrophic insurance unless you're fortunate enough to work for a company like UPS. Meanwhile the previously uninsurable enjoy better insurance than the rest of us. The best thing to come out of this is if I do contract cancer or whatever I can march down to an insurance agency and say "cover me." As an early retiree and no longer having insurance I will take advantage of the available insurance much to Bacha's chagrin if I need to because I'm watching the government print trillions while importing millions of illegal immigrants. They are going to do what they're going to do no matter what I do so I'm not going to make some principled stand but rather use what's available before it all crashes down. Why should anyone do without when the government is literally throwing money at us?
 
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