Scraping a driveway--does it deserve a warning letter?

[EAT MY OVERALLOWED]

For you a warning letter is suitable, for a bonus baby they would of been told not to do it again.

At the end of the day -- do you really care about a warning letter? I'd like to tell you what I do with my warning letters but I'd get moderated.

I fight them tooth and nail on everything but there have been a few warning letters that I have eaten over the years. I pick my battles because I know I'm going to win the war.

 

[cachsux]

Maybe you could have come in at an angle but ,judging by your pic as it`s presented, if thats all that you were going to back in then I would have pulled across the bottom of the driveway and humped it from there. That extra 15 feet wasn`t worth it when we see the result.
Thats an avoidable any day of the week in the new UPS. Worth a warning letter? No, you weren`t acting reckless in this instance.

 

[Dragon]

If I was in this situation I would have rolled the package up the drive. If this wasent possible I would have asked the customer or called the center and asked for a fellow Teamster.

How about trying the hand cart......

 

[Anonymous 10]

All good points, however....

1. "Rolling the package up the driveway" is not an appropriate delivery method for a furniture delivery in my opinion.
2. The customer was an elderly man.
3. Fellow Teamsters would not have been available for several hours at best, and the size of the package was such that working around it was simply impossible.

Bear in mind that I had backed into this driveway before without contacting it, so I had no reason to think that it would be a problem on this occasion. The difference was that this time I had more weight in the back, and my tires were worn out instead of being new. These two factors can alter the geometry by half an inch or more, which is the difference between scraping and not scraping.

I get that we are supposed to stay out of resi driveways. I wrote the trace for this area specifically to eliminate all backing. But the reality is that, sometimes, there is simply no reasonable alternative but to back.

The company made a business decision to solicit oversized/overweight furniture volume from Pottery Barn. The company also made a business decision to equip this particular car with an inexpensive aftermarket RV hitch that bolts underneath the frame and severely limits the ground clearance rather than investing in one that mounts between the frame rails above the bumper. In addition, there are caster wheel kits for RV's with hitches that bolt to the bottom of the hitch or bumper and allow the vehicle to roll rather than drag when going up steep driveways. The company made a business decision not to invest in such kits when they mounted these hitches to the newer package cars.

In my opinion, the combination of these three business decisions makes occasional ground clearance incidents all but inevitable, and the revenue that is generated and saved thru these decisions ought to be applied towards repairing the damages that occur as a result.

I agree with you Sober on your points also, but as others here have stated this a new ups. We all need to be yes men and put decisions on them as much as you can. When I got my rural or country route I did alot of backing. Then with telematics I only backed when nesessary and conformed to there rules.

Now doing this JOB by the book is second nature. Sometimes it might not make sence but it's like they want and I know I can sleep good at night knowing I'm by the book. The days of decision making are greatly reduced and I'm fine with it.

 

[Anonymous 10]

How about trying the hand cart......

I don't have one in my truck but that's another option. Anything that big and over 70 would call for another teamster.

 

[soberups]

How about trying the hand cart......

Great theory from behind a desk. Doesnt work in the real world. A piece of furniture that big and heavy has enough "voids" in the box that the blade of the hand cart will just break thru the cardboard.

 

[pickup]

Soberups , we can see it was oversized and you say it was over 70 lbs, but what do you think the weight of the package was? And let me also ask you this, let's say this was a driveway that you knew from previous episodes that you could not clear under optimal conditions(new tires and not a lot of weight on the back ) , what would you have done to make this delivery?

 

[soberups]

Soberups , we can see it was oversized and you say it was over 70 lbs, but what do you think the weight of the package was? And let me also ask you this, let's say this was a driveway that you knew from previous episodes that you could not clear under optimal conditions(new tires and not a lot of weight on the back ) , what would you have done to make this delivery?

The package was probably 80 or 90 pounds. The weight was less of an issue than the size, the poor condition of the box, and the shifting contents within. And it was sitting atop a bunch of other irregs that were on the floor of the car. I had to break trace and go to the stop early because I wasnt going to get anything done until I got rid of it.

Knowing what I know now, if the same scenario occured again I would park in the street and just roll the damn thing out the back and up the driveway with no regard for how it looked or whether it got wet or beat up in the process.

There are drivers who back because they are lazy or have poor methods or discipline. I backed because I felt...with the information I had at the time...that it was the safest and most professional way to deliver that particular package. I followed all prescribed methods and backed in a safe and appropriate manner. I had no realistic basis for believing that the outcome would be any different than the last time I had backed into that same driveway.

 

[cino321]

Honestly man, with something that big blocking egress inside the package car, and especially that it's an overweight, I wouldn't of pulled that truck out of the building if I couldn't work around the package.

It's like you said...

The company made a business decision to solicit oversized/overweight furniture volume from Pottery Barn. The company also made a business decision to equip this particular car with an inexpensive aftermarket RV hitch that bolts underneath the frame and severely limits the ground clearance rather than investing in one that mounts between the frame rails above the bumper. In addition, there are caster wheel kits for RV's with hitches that bolt to the bottom of the hitch or bumper and allow the vehicle to roll rather than drag when going up steep driveways. The company made a business decision not to invest in such kits when they mounted these hitches to the newer package cars.

But you made the decision to take that car out like that. Put the responsibility on them. If they can't get you help so you can deliver that stop before you do anything else, don't attempt it all. Get your safety committee involved and your steward.

Good luck man, at the end of the day it's just warning letter, wrap it all under experience and don't loose sleep over it.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Honestly man, with something that big blocking egress inside the package car, and especially that it's an overweight, I wouldn't of pulled that truck out of the building if I couldn't work around the package.

Yeah...right.

The only egress requirement in a package car is in the cab and since we are not allowed to have any packages in the cab egress is not an issue.

Are you are going to honestly tell us that you have never had to either work around an oversize until you got to that stop or broken trace to get rid of it so that you wouldn't have to work around it all day? If you say yes I call bs.

You talk a really good game but at the end of the day you work as directed just like the rest of us.

 

[bigbrownhen]

That stinks Sober. I think a verbal would be sufficient. I wouldn't have backed in that drive either. Unless it is level or just slight lift to the entrance of the drive and it's completlely necessary do I back in a drive. I do understand that you have backed in before, so through past practice and the package you were trying to deliver, that you did. The added weight and such is a changing condition. There is no reason for a warning letter though, thats a bit over the top in my opinion. Backing incidents are a big deal right now, so yea, they are gonna gig you on it. This should be addressed in your centers next PCM to give a heads up to the other drivers, it is really hard to change old working methods, many others would have made the same decision you did.

 

[cino321]

Yeah...right.

The only egress requirement in a package car is in the cab and since we are not allowed to have any packages in the cab egress is not an issue.

Are you are going to honestly tell us that you have never had to either work around an oversize until you got to that stop or broken trace to get rid of it so that you wouldn't have to work around it all day? If you say yes I call bs.

You talk a really good game but at the end of the day you work as directed just like the rest of us.

It's one thing if the package is large dimensionally, or if the car is blown out with a drop stop that is bulky and I can't walk through the car until I deliver that stop. It's another thing if I can't even pick it up myself and it's over 70 lbs.

What do you suggest I do Upstate? Support myself from the 2000 and 4000 shelves and use my feet to push the package out of the car? No manager or on car is going to instruct you to deliver an overweight by yourself because they can't.

You guys don't understand, it's not because I don't want to, but it's because we shouldn't have to. I'm not here to take one for the team, I'm not a hero.

Oh and I always work as directed, and I expected my management team to do the same. It's a two way street.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

It's one thing if the package is large dimensionally, or if the car is blown out with a drop stop that is bulky and I can't walk through the car until I deliver that stop. It's another thing if I can't even pick it up myself and it's over 70 lbs.

What do you suggest I do Upstate? Support myself from the 2000 and 4000 shelves and use my feet to push the package out of the car? No manager or on car is going to instruct you to deliver an overweight by yourself because they can't.

You guys don't understand, it's not because I don't want to, but it's because we shouldn't have to. I'm not here to take one for the team, I'm not a hero.

Oh and I always work as directed, and I expected my management team to do the same. It's a two way street.

If the loader is able to get it in there then, yes, you should be expected to get it out of there. You can choose to either work around it all day or do as Sober did and break trace.

Now, a preload or dispatch sup with any common sense will see that accomodations need to be made for a package that large if at all possible. These could include shuttling it out to you later in the day or leaving it at one of your bulk stops. There will be times when this is not possible and the only choice is to load it and build the rest of the load around it.

 

[over9five]

If the loader is able to get it in there then, yes, you should be expected to get it out of there. You can choose to either work around it all day or do as Sober did and break trace.

+1, that's the name of the game.

 

[Big Babooba]

Judging from the photos we don't know how long the driveway was and the damage appears to be just a scrape and not a gouge. After a winter or two, it'll probably be unnoticeable. A "Talk to" would have been sufficient. If it was gouged, that would be a different scenario.

 

[cino321]

If the loader is able to get it in there then, yes, you should be expected to get it out of there. You can choose to either work around it all day or do as Sober did and break trace.

Not if it's an overweight for crying out load! You shouldn't have to back into driveways to deliver packages that are too heavy to pick up. And I'm sorry sober but your management team knows that, that's why the accident was avoidable.

Article 44, Section 1 of our contract:

"No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound packages
alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such handling
would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,
the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requested
in good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:

1. Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2. Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3. Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriate
lifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circumstances
that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriate
lifting/handling device."

 

[over9five]

Gouged or scraped doesn't matter. UPS will be paying to have that fixed.
What do they tell you all the time about backing? "If you're unsure, get out and look!" I know it may have been hard to tell if your hitch would hit or not, but if it's that close you shouldn't have tried it. As professional drivers, we do have to consider changing conditions as someone else said. You have to know your PC will sit lower on some days.

In addition...

1. It's stupid to give out a warning letter for this. A simple "Be more careful" would have done.

2. Call for Teamster help, and wait.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Not if it's an overweight for crying out load! You shouldn't have to back into driveways to deliver packages that are too heavy to pick up. And I'm sorry sober but your management team knows that, that's why the accident was avoidable.

Article 44, Section 1 of our contract:

"No employee shall be required to handle any over 70 pound packages
alone if it is the employee’s good faith belief that such handling
would be a safety hazard to herself or himself. In such cases,
the Employer shall provide whichever of the following is requested
in good faith by the employee in handling over 70 pound packages:

1. Another bargaining unit employee for assistance, or
2. Appropriate lifting/handling devices, or
3. Another bargaining unit employee and an appropriate
lifting/handling device for handling, pick-up or delivery circumstances
that require both bargaining unit help and an appropriate
lifting/handling device."

Quoting from a contract is one thing but we are talking the real world here. Sober could have, and maybe should have, sat and waited for a fellow Teamster to come and help him. The problem with this is two-fold: first, Sober already said that it would be several hours before help was available and that he was breaking trace to try to make his day easier and, second, being asked to help will impact the other driver's day as well. One of the five keys is "use existing equipment and facilities to assist in the lift/lower". Sober had his hand cart. The sheer size of the package would have made it difficult to properly use the hand cart but it could have been done. It appears from the photos that his plan was to get as close to the garage as possible and then move the pkg from the PC to the garage, using the weight of the package in his favor.

I think we are getting away from the original question of this thread and that is whether he deserved a warning letter for this or not. I don't think he did. He is a 23 year veteran with an excellent work record and I think a verbal would have been sufficient.

 

[cino321]

Quoting from a contract is one thing but we are talking the real world here. Sober could have, and maybe should have, sat and waited for a fellow Teamster to come and help him. The problem with this is two-fold: first, Sober already said that it would be several hours before help was available and that he was breaking trace to try to make his day easier and, second, being asked to help will impact the other driver's day as well. One of the five keys is "use existing equipment and facilities to assist in the lift/lower". Sober had his hand cart. The sheer size of the package would have made it difficult to properly use the hand cart but it could have been done. It appears from the photos that his plan was to get as close to the garage as possible and then move the pkg from the PC to the garage, using the weight of the package in his favor.

I think we are getting away from the original question of this thread and that is whether he deserved a warning letter for this or not. I don't think he did. He is a 23 year veteran with an excellent work record and I think a verbal would have been sufficient.

It's your mentality that makes this such a hard battle to fight.

Stop trying to make your day easier and cutting corners to save time because you want to get home at a decent hour or you don't want to inconvenience your on car. The contract is the real world.

It's obvious sober's management team didn't care enough about his excellent work record and 23 years on the job to look the other way on which even I agree is a bs accident, so why should he make their life easier when it comes to delivering overweights?

 

[hellfire]

have you been causing trouble lately? i was gonna say because the cust. called the incident in and monetary assistance will be provided to fix the driveway your center manager had to give you a warning letter,, but then yrs ago i was involved in a accident where the other vehicle was totaled and the driver was taken away in a ambulance, but i was working the next day with no discipline