Snow = Volume drop??

[tieguy]

If sure your right Kid. Hell it may even be a conspiracy on the part of management to make sure everything and everyone is fricked up. Those guys are just determined to screw everything up they can. Thanks for exposing this evil plot to the world.

 

[kidlogic]

I was merely trying to point out a flaw in UPS's managment methods. Each group only cares on the numbers they are responsible for without weighing the true cost to the company. In the case of the driver . It is easier to explain an accident then it is the explain why your sproh is so low.
I also was trying to show that you are part of a system that uses "baffles the imagination" concept also.
Evil plot.....that driver is going to lose his job when some managment person should have been proactive when they saw his driving before his accidents.You cant look the other way when it benefits the company then fire a guy for doing what he has been doing all the time. Might be good for your little part of the company but wont get you into heaven.

 

[tieguy]

That was my point Kid your whole entire post was a management flaw. The thread is trending towards a discussion on volume loss until your post which is a long winded dissertation on management flaws.But I will overlook and respond to your post.I wish management was omnipotent as you apparently think. I wish we did have the ability to monitor everything everyone does and correct them immediately . But there just is not enough time in the day. Your rabbit has had the training and the knowledge to know how to drive safely. At that point he has to take responsibility for his actions. Your role as a safety member should be to counsel the rabbit on driving safely. If the guy then ignores all that good advice then the ball is in his court. We play the victim game way too much. If you have a management person instructing a driver to exceed the speed limit then you have a problem. If not then the perception that management looks the other and condones is not reason enough for the guy to willfully drive unsafely.

 

[oldupsman]

I'm sorry kid. You and deliverman are going to have to stop posting. You both make way too much sense.

 

[dannyboy]

Ok Tie, When does looking the other way and condoning turn into support of the action?
Just like the driver that "went on strike". If the company does nothing, what message does that send to the other drivers. I think our management team knows that if he ever works for UPS again, the morale of the other 100 or so drivers that hit the bricks every day will suffer. And in this case it is so also. If you do not correct the problem, and allow it to exist, then by default you(the management team) support the problem behaviors.

We have one like that here, and so far the only real damage he has done has been to UPS vehicles. But it is only a matter of time before a really bad one will happen.

I just hope he hasnt altered the lives of inocent people with his behavior!

d

 

[feederdryver]

Kid--
The company will never be omnipotent like we want, nor will the Union. Too many levels of authority and too many personalities and "individual" goals. I believe that is why this is a country based on capitalism not socialism. Somebody will always step on someone else's feet to make secure their future tomorrow.
Therefore we have to be accountable for ourselves and our own actions. I don't see anywhere in the contract that says a driver must drive "like a bat out of hell". If he/she feels that human life is inferior to UPs' numbers than he/she SHOULD lose his job !! The driver should do his/her best within the law and safely. If he/she feels they are going to be harrassed by the "number-lords of UPS" for driving too slow, then there are avenues to take to defend such harrassment. That's why we have a Union. Obviously the driver is a grown adult and should start acting like one.
Sorry, I can't side with the driver on this one.

BTW..did I mention that volume is down in my region?? heh

 

[tieguy]

>>Just like the driver that "went on strike". If the company does nothing, what message does that send to the other drivers. I think our management team knows that if he ever works for UPS again, the morale of the other 100 or so drivers that hit the bricks every day will suffer. And in this case it is so also. If you do not correct the problem, and allow it to exist, then by default you(the management team) support the problem behaviors.<<

No I would say management does not address the issue enough. Personal accountability has to play a part in the equation. If a driver speeds when on his route and management does not take action to observe him speeding and correct the behavior that does not mean management supports the speeding. You have to take quite a leap to make that connection. The driver has had the training to know better. The driver needs no additional training from us to know that speeding is against the law.

 

[deliver_man]

I agree with tie on this one. The driver is an adult, he knows that it is against the law to speed. He is not a child who doesn't know better and is being misled by management.

 

[dannyboy]

You missed the point. I know the driver is an "adult" and should be held accountable, and he will be.

But if, as a manager, you have been told that this driver is driving down the road sheeting packages, call tags, speeding, cutting people off, and just in general being a very unsafe driver. Now tell me, when does looking the other way and condoning these practices become support for these actions.

In a court of law, if it can be proven that you knew your vehicle was unsafe to drive, and you drove it any way, you would be in much more trouble than if you did not know of the problems. If there had been complaints on this driver, and management can not PROVE that they took steps to correct the problem then they are just as guilty as the driver that had the accident. And if they proof comes out in court, then it will be infered that the company supported his actions, because of the lack of proper response to correct the problems.

Bottom line is if you are aware, or have been told of a driver being unsafe, it is up to management to follow up and do whatever they can to stop the behavior. Only then can you really wash your hands of the matter.

As a practical matter, if your regional manager came calling after one of your drivers went through a 3, wouldnt you be better off and have your tail covered if you could show that when complaints were called in, that you did a safety followup and other steps were taken to correct the problem, or you just gonna sit there and not have anything to offer while they chew your behind or worse.

d

 

[brownmonster]

Some just give you a warning letter on the first accident and that is being proactive and concerned about safety.

 

[dannyboy]

No it isnt BM, it is reactive. But some managers only know warning letters, because it takes no time to do and they have no imagination to do something different. Tell me how a warning letter by itself will change behavior?

d

 

[tieguy]

Perhaps the driver will actually know we are serious about his speeding. Some people don't believe we are until we give them the paper.

 

[dammor]

Why is it we are inclined to speed?

 

[over70lbpkg]

Because it is the easist allowance to beat!

 

[deliver_man]

Because it is the easist allowance to beat!

Exactly! You can't fix your lousy timestudy, but you can sure as hell drive faster

 

[upsdude]

No speeding for me!

The slower I drive, the more I make!!
LOL!!

 

[dannyboy]

Tie

I agree with a warning letter to change behavior if the employee will not listen to reason. BUt after the fact of having an accident is not really going to do much good, either to the employee or the victims of the accident. Better to change the behavior BEFORE the accident than to discipline them afterward.

d

 

[tieguy]

How?

 

[dannyboy]

Well for starters, many drivers that have had tier 3's have had several-many smaller "fender bender-mirror breakers". And many managers know who the speeders are and those that drive with total disregard for safety. I, speaking as a safety co-chair/steward, would have no problems what so ever if you gave a driver verbal warning, warning letter, suspension or more to correct drivers with these problem. The minor accident should not be a reason for the warning, the behavior that caused it is something else.

THose would be my actions for starters. Then safety rides. Many managers wouldnt know how to do a proper safety ride with a driver in the first place. Then many of those that do, spend 15 minutes-2 hours doing it, then do other things, there are too many distractions.
IF a driver continually drives with a disregard for his safety and that of the general public, then he/she needs to be MADE to follow the rules or be disiplined. Just like with seat belts, wear em, or loose your job!

d

 

[upsdude]

"Then many of those that do, spend 15 minutes-2 hours doing it, then do other things, there are too many distractions."


I agree 100%!

My last safety ride lasted an hour and most of the time was spent looking at ways to add more work to the route. Granted, I have 15 years safe driving and a perfect driving record but every one of us is only a millisecond away from an accident. About a year ago I had a safety ride, TLA, and HABITS training all on the same day, all during a 2 hour ride. It seems that the delivery sups have so much to get done that if youre a positive employee, you get ignored until some sort of audit requires attention. Whatever happened to just following a guy around and looking at his driving? It would only take about 20 minutes to get a sample of how he handles a vehicle, especially on an in town route.