The MD11

Discussion in 'FedEx Discussions' started by MrFedEx, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the FAA needs to take a very close look at the MD11. This incident is eerily similar to at least a dozen others involving this aircraft, all related to landing problems associated with the lengthening of the original DC10 airframe and inadequate control surfaces. FedEx flipped and burned another one a few years back and pilots were brought back for re-training on landing procedures. Luckily, nobody was seriously injured in the first roll-over, which they blamed on the pilot, not the plane. The loss of life in Tokyo combined with the stunning live video will probably bring a renewed level of scrutiny to the MD11, and none too soon.

    After talking with a number of our pilots over the years and listening to reports from other veteran pilots, it's clear there are some design issues with the MD11 that need to be addressed right now. It's a good thing almost all of them are freighters. I don't think it's a coincidence that so many passenger airlines got rid of their MD11's as soon as they could at bargain-basement prices. Whenever I've gotten off one, I always felt like kissing the ground on arrival because I had so little confidence in the plane.

    Perhaps the Tokyo crash was caused by wind shear, but from the video I have seen there were other things going on as well, and several airline pilots who serve as media consultants have said the same thing. I really hope those two pilots did not die in vain, and that the investigation will get the MD11 straightened out once and for all.
  2. scratch

    scratch Least Best Moderator Staff Member

    While I view Fedex as our adversary, I am very sorry to see the loss of these two people. They were just out doing their job when this tragedy happened, trying to make a living like everybody else. While I am not a pilot, (my father was)I have been in some Delta Flight Simulators, including an MD11. All planes are a handful when trying to slow down to enough to land in high wind. Wind shear is just about the worst thing that can happen at landing.
  3. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    Ironic, the plane that crashed was ex-Delta. All aircraft are at extreme risk during wind shear, but the MD11 has a track record of being more than a handful, as in uncontrollable due to basic design deficiencies.
  4. david cassin

    david cassin dublinbrown

    may they rest in peace,always sad to hear anything like this
    people doing their day to day jobs.
  5. FedEx All the Way!

    FedEx All the Way! New Member

    FedEx could cancel contracts for $10 billion in American-made planes if Congress makes it easier for unions to organize the delivery giant's workers.

    In a Securities and Exchange Commission filing, the Memphis-based company disclosed that purchases of Boeing 777s are contingent on FedEx Express' continued coverage by the National Railway Labor Act.

    The disclosure serves as a warning shot to lawmakers seeking to put FedEx Express workers under the National Labor Relations Act, a move seen as helping the International Brotherhood of Teamsters.

    "It's FedEx political hardball at its finest," said analyst Donald Broughton with Avondale Partners. In a research note Monday, he wrote: "We see FedEx's action as a deft political move that aligns the interests of Boeing and GE with FedEx, and pits the interests of the Teamsters against the interests of the machinist and several other trade unions."​
    FedEx is threatening to buy French-made Airbuses to upgrade its fleet instead. Why does corporate America hate our country and its workers?

    UPDATE: FedEx isn't the only corporation that likes to play hardball. Via Washington Monthly comes information about a recent WSJ article. It basically says banks sent the following message to President Obama after Congress moved to tax their bonuses:
    When administration officials began calling them to talk about the next phase of the bailout, the bankers turned the tables. They used the calls to lobby against the antibonus legislation, Wall Street executives say. Several big firms called Treasury and White House officials to urge a more reasonable approach, both sides say. The banks' message: If you want our help to get credit flowing again to consumers and businesses, stop the rush to penalize our bonuses.
    Real patriotic, huh? These bankers ruined our economy, put people out of work and literally on the street, and they still want to call the shots. And they wonder why Main Street is so outraged.

    The arrogance is hard to fathom, isn't it? But I have to stop myself when I find myself thinking that they just don't get it. The problem is - we just don't get it. We don't get that as long as corporations are allowed to funnel millions into lobbyists and campaign funds, they do call the shots.

    They're arrogant because they've bought the right to be.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2009
  6. unionman

    unionman New Member

    Do you know what the flight control problems are? Is it because the wings are to small with the lengthened airframe. I know there were some problems with the autopilot and the software had to be updated but I have never heard of any lack of flight controls during landing, as in outboard aileron lockout or flight spoilers not adequate. This aircraft is very difficult to work on with flight controls. The flight spoiler system has four mixers in the center wheel well that are complicated to say the least.
  7. FedEx All the Way!

    FedEx All the Way! New Member

    FedEx ready to cancel Boeing jet orders?

    [​IMG]Is FedEx (FDX) blackmailing Congress or simply playing hardball? Either way, the shipping company is not making things easy on lawmakers these days.
    FedEx is steamed about a bill working its way through Congress, and is threatening to cancel billions of dollars in new plane orders from Boeing (BA) as a result, according to the Wall Street Journal.
    The bill would make it easier to form unions at FedEx, which has been nearly union-free to this point. That's very different from rival UPS (UPS), where more than half of the employees are union members.
    Upset by the threat of more unions, FedEx is fighting back by clamping down its pocketbook. It might cancel orders for up to 30 new cargo planes from Boeing if lawmakers pass the bill. That would have been a $7 bilion purchase.
    "It is exceedingly unlikely that we would purchase those airplanes," a FedEx spokesman told the Journal. He makes the claim -- a quite flimsy one -- that those planes become unnecessary when the bill cripples the company.
    Predictably, unions have fired off a strong response. The International Brotherhood of Teamsters called FedEx irresponsible and shortsighted.
    "It is a slap in the face to Congress and the American people," said a Teamsters executive. "The bill should be evaluated on its merit -- not upon the threat of FedEx to fire another torpedo through the American economy."
    And a House Democrat who co-sponsored the bill says FedEx is just "huffing and puffing."

    Normally, Boeing stays out of these squabbles. But $7 billion is a motivating figure, and analysts think Boeing will start lobbying Congress aggressively on FedEx's behalf. After all, Boeing needs every dollar it can these days as customers struggle for financing to buy more planes.

    If that happens, FedEx's move is quite brilliant. It gains a powerful lobbying ally and takes advantage of a weak economic environment in which lawmakers are desperate to see businesses and consumers start spending again.

  8. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    Mr. Fedex and FATW you guys really dont get it do you? You need to get your **** together and not make every DISCUSSION an arguement and political bitchfest.
  9. unionman

    unionman New Member

    Thanks Drewed. This blog was suppose to be about the MD11 I believe, not a political whine session. I think UPS might want to buy those 777s in the near future, what do you think?
  10. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    It would be a good investment economy wise, I see the middle east as a growing market in the coming years and the 777 could make trips to and from both asia and europe to the middle east (not saying our current fleet just saying cost wise) but dont we still have 26 767s set to be delivered over the next couple years? I havent heard about a cancelation/delay of that. Im glad we moved away from the airbus contract I think that would have cost us a lot of money in revamping gateways... these would be interesting to see on UPS pads in the next 5 years though
  11. MrFedEx

    MrFedEx Engorged Member

    Fred's threat to yank the Boeing order is already on the UPS side and I've commented on it there. I won't debate it here, OK?

    I do know someone directly involved in the investigation of this accident, and suffice it to say that any airline that operates the MD11 is fully aware of it's less than stellar handling under certain conditions, including FedEx.

    When the DC10 was re-engineered into the MD11, everything possible was done to maximize the efficiency of the aircraft. The tradeoff for efficiency was safety. Smaller control surfaces are more efficient, but less safe. The passenger airlines figured this out shortly after they received their first MD11's and the incidents started piling-up. They are tricky to fly, especially in adverse conditions, and the safety factor figured into their decision to dump them as soon as possible. That's why they are freighters now.
  12. unionman

    unionman New Member

    The 777 is a great airplane, I use to work on them at United. We have two 767s coming online this year and 10 next year. Those planes are real work horses and your right about the A380, its sounds like it is turning out to be a real lemon not worth spending all that money to make it work for us.
  13. iowa boy

    iowa boy Well-Known Member

    FedEx is steamed about a bill working its way through Congress, and is threatening to cancel billions of dollars in new plane orders from Boeing.
    "It is exceedingly unlikely that we would purchase those airplanes," a FedEx spokesman told the Journal. He makes the claim -- a quite flimsy one -- that those planes become unnecessary when the bill cripples the company.


    Anyone else see this quote? If the Congress passes this bill then Fedex won't buy the planes from Boeing as they will "become unnecessary when the bill cripples the company, but yet they still can afford to buy them from Airbus? Why would you go and authorize spending of 7 Bil. plus with another company if your company is gonna be crippled by the legislation? Gotta love that "fuzzy math":surprised:
  14. FedEx All the Way!

    FedEx All the Way! New Member

    Anyone else see this quote? If the Congress passes this bill then Fedex won't buy the planes from Boeing as they will "become unnecessary when the bill cripples the company, but yet they still can afford to buy them from Airbus? Why would you go and authorize spending of 7 Bil. plus with another company if your company is gonna be crippled by the legislation? Gotta love that "fuzzy math":surprised:[/quote]

    Union-busting for the big three

    Hurray for FEDEX! It's time someone stand up to the union. They've been pushing people around for way too long. I believe the unions were needed when they were first formed to help employees who were being abused but they have outlived their usefulness.
    Why do we need the bill? If people at FedEx believe they would be better off with a union they should work at UPS.
    NO company should be forced to unionize. What the teamsters are doing equates to extortion. If Fed Ex employees want to unionize, they will take it on themselves.

    Unions first sprung up in 18th-century Europe when women and children joined armies of poorly paid male factory workers. As individuals, the factory workers were powerless to negotiate with their bosses. A union gave them a collective voice. They could band together to say, "You're getting rich off our labor, and you need to share that wealth with us -- or we'll stop working." The factory owner would then have an incentive to improve wages and conditions.

    Who but a factory owner could argue with its logic or fairness?

    Unfortunately, somewhere along the way, unions forgot that the relationship between workers and owners is symbiotic. The two entities are natural allies, not enemies. Unions got drunk on their own power, and began working against the long-term profitability of their own companies.
    According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, there are currently 15 million unionized workers in the US, which accounts for 12% of all workers. About 35% of public sector workers are unionized, compared to 7% of private industry workers. On average, a union worker makes 33% more than a non-unionized worker. Four out of five union workers have employer-financed pension plans. Only one-half of non-unionized workers do.

    General Motors, Ford and Chrysler are all badly run companies with uninspiring product lines. In fact, most of their wounds are self-inflicted - but the unions have certainly done their share of the damage. And is there any sight more pathetic than those fleshy CEOs begging Congress for money?
    It's not like there haven't been warning signs.

    Even if GM made good cars, the legacy costs would kill the company. When GM made the pension deal in 1962, it had 464,000 US employees, and was paying benefits to 40,000 retirees and their spouses.

    So for every retiree, there were about 11 workers on the factory floor. Then they started automating, replacing people with machines. By 2007, the workforce had shrunk to 141,000 -- but the company was now paying benefits to 450,000 retirees.

    The math doesn't work. And chucking $25 billion at the Big Three isn't going to make it work.

    There are only two solutions that will work:

    One, let the free market do its thing. Reward excellence. Kill the weak. Say goodbye to the Big Three. New U.S. auto companies will emerge, and they will learn from their mistakes and make better cars at higher profits.

    Neither of these solutions is pleasant. In fact, both are extremely painful. But the hurt is there anyway. Half a million Americans lost their jobs in November. I know what it's like to pound the pavement looking for work, worried about my family, my house, my future. Those are long days -- but sometimes they're necessary.

    The most important thing is to stay firmly rooted in reality. And the reality is that Toyota makes better cars than GM. And they aren't paying billions of dollars to ex-employees.

    Another reality is that the system is self-correcting. The job market is currently flooded with educated, motivated, trained workers. That's a very good environment for entrepreneurs to start new businesses in.

  15. unionman

    unionman New Member

    Is that why Fedx took away there workers pensions a few years back and now they don't even conytibute to there 401k?
  16. FedEx All the Way!

    FedEx All the Way! New Member

    Anything to save a company and save jobs. If that's what it takes for a while, so be it! The future should be brighter. Tough times for everyone. Isn't it ironic that when you hear something on the news quoted from Fred Smith a day later you read similar remarks/quotes from the CEO of UPS.
    I don't work for UPS or FedEx, but my husband works for FedEx. We all should just go with the flow of the economy right now and not complain.
    Have a great day!
  17. unionman

    unionman New Member

    He is not saving jobs, he is satisfying the stock holders. Thats what corporate america is all about now, isn't it. Step on the heads of every worker to maximize profits. But what does that have to do with this blog which is suppose to be a bout the MD11?
  18. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    FATW take this as bluntly as it can be taken you really are a dumb broad, this was about the tragedy at your oh so precious company, the only thing that should have been discussed in this thread was the aircraft, not the politics Fedex wants to play or whether or not theyll buy more Beoing planes. Two men are dead, two families are mourning you as part of the Fedex family should be mourning as well but apparently politics and Fred Smith takes importance over everything else.
  19. drewed

    drewed Shankman

    We havent seen any A380s come through up here, what are the issues? Id imagine with all the delays theres shortage of spare parts?
  20. iowa boy

    iowa boy Well-Known Member

    FedEx all the way,

    I sincerely applaud the passion you have for your husbands employer, as there are many spouses out there that don't take the time to get involved like you do. I not being sarcastic when i say that, im sincerely glad you believe in something that strongly.

    But what I don't understand is how FedEx is "standing up" to the unions by threatening to take their business overseas? The impression I get (mind you, just an impression), is that Fred is trying to blackmail the government and trying to make the government stand up to the unions involved instead of trying to do this on his own.
    If Fred, as you said, is not anti-union, then why is FedEx so afraid of the Teamsters?
    Why not invite the Teamsters into FedEx and let the employees decide? I'm not talking just the drivers and handlers, but every one at FedEx, including your hubby.

    Then if the employees decide that they don't want to unionize, then Fred has the paperwork necessary to tell the Teamsters to go to hell, correct?

    I'm honestly not trying to start a war with you, im just trying to understand some of Freds logic in this situation.