The Russians Are Coming, The Russians Are Coming!

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
it don't make sense for the Russians to hack for trump, then go big on it to show they did it. then expect something in return. Public scrutiny knowing the Russians did it wouldn't allow trump to do anything. It just makes no sense
The Russians, like everyone else, thought Clinton would win. They wanted her presidency to have legitimacy questions. They wanted Trump out there yelling about a rigged election. The Russians just didn't realize how stupid the American electorate is and how much they could manipulate them.
 

Jkloc420

Do you need an air compressor or tire gauge
The Russians, like everyone else, thought Clinton would win. They wanted her presidency to have legitimacy questions. They wanted Trump out there yelling about a rigged election. The Russians just didn't realize how stupid the American electorate is and how much they could manipulate them.
Not to mention trump could have fired comey at the beginning of his presidency, which he didn't. Someone worried about a Russian investigation would have don't that.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
Not to mention trump could have fired comey at the beginning of his presidency, which he didn't. Someone worried about a Russian investigation would have don't that.
I'm not convinced Trump knew anything during the campaign. Knowledge doesn't seem to be his strong suit. I think he hired people that were in bed with Russia because he doesn't know how to vet potential employees. Trump is the definition of useful idiot, he's not interested in details and will follow what his advisors tell him. It just happens that many of those advisors worked for the Kremlin.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
The Russians, like everyone else, thought Clinton would win. They wanted her presidency to have legitimacy questions. They wanted Trump out there yelling about a rigged election. The Russians just didn't realize how stupid the American electorate is and how much they could manipulate them.
That's pathetic. If the hackers were Russians working on orders from the Kremlin, all they did was expose how the DNC was working closely with the Clinton campaign to torpedo Sanders, and to give her an edge in the debates working with the media. That however doesn't change the fact that she lost crucial Democrat voters in key States because she played to her far left supporters saying she was going to kill coal jobs. Her supporters are so wanting to pin her loss on anything but her negative issues. Please don't forget that she became very wealthy as Secretary of State and deleted 33,000 emails and acid washed her server to make sure they weren't recoverable. Voters didn't need hackers to not trust her, especially in Rust Belt States where they're desperate for work. People on here like to say I'm deflecting, but blaming Russians for her failure is the ultimate deflection, one not based on anything but speculation.
 

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
That's pathetic. If the hackers were Russians working on orders from the Kremlin, all they did was expose how the DNC was working closely with the Clinton campaign to torpedo Sanders, and to give her an edge in the debates working with the media. That however doesn't change the fact that she lost crucial Democrat voters in key States because she played to her far left supporters saying she was going to kill coal jobs. Her supporters are so wanting to pin her loss on anything but her negative issues. Please don't forget that she became very wealthy as Secretary of State and deleted 33,000 emails and acid washed her server to make sure they weren't recoverable. Voters didn't need hackers to not trust her, especially in Rust Belt States where they're desperate for work. People on here like to say I'm deflecting, but blaming Russians for her failure is the ultimate deflection, one not based on anything but speculation.
Sure, speculation by the intelligence community. 2 things can be true at the same time, Clinton ran a bad campaign and the Russians interfered and Trump staffers were accepting payments from foreign gonverments while advising the president.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Sure, speculation by the intelligence community. 2 things can be true at the same time, Clinton ran a bad campaign and the Russians interfered and Trump staffers were accepting payments from foreign gonverments while advising the president.
But said advisers who may have possibly influenced Trump came onboard in the transition, not during his campaign. It's grasping at straws.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
it don't make sense for the Russians to hack for trump, then go big on it to show they did it. then expect something in return. Public scrutiny knowing the Russians did it wouldn't allow trump to do anything. It just makes no sense

The whole Russian election hack is a conspiracy theory so democrats don't have to face the fact that not only was Hillary a terrible candidate but her campaign was a terrible campaign. She lost states in the midwest that are traditionally democrat because she choose not to seriously campaign there. Had she chosen to do so I think she would have easily beaten Trump as most expected the election outcome to be. I as well thought that would be the case all the way up to the moments the election results started coming in and then when Texas went Trump I went WOW!

The other amazing thing in all of this is the claims being made about this election being rigged when in many serious ways the democratic primary process itself was rigged from the get go against Bernie Sanders. Regardless whether you like Sanders or not, he is more true to what the democrat party "claims" to be as opposed to what the democratic party really are and that is a Corporatist political party. Think RINO under Democrat dress. Hillary was, is and will always be at heart a Goldwater Girl. There was a thrown election in 2016 and it was within the democratic party machinery where the election conspirators can actually be found and Bernie Sanders the victim. I think the Russian claims are as much to hide that from public view as it is a sorry excuse for why Hillary got beat.

But for the sake of argument, lets look at the election results and ask the question could the vote have somehow been manipulated by the Russians? Was that vote directly manipulated at the voting machine by Russian hackers? Was the American public manipulated by propaganda? Either way, seems one can consider either of these by comparing the 2016' vote totals with past election vote totals and see if there is a big difference or obvious irregularities.

This past election Trump got 62 million and change in votes and Hillary for 65 million and change but how does that compare for example to the 2012' election? Obama got 65 million and change and Romney got 60 million and change. In 2008' the results were Obama 69 million and change to 59 million and change for McCain. 2004 was 62 mil to 59 mil, 2000 was 50 mil to 50 mil with Gore actually getting a 500k more votes than Bush.

Hillary lost the election not because voters were manipulated by Russians, they lost because their own campaign strategy took for granted certain states (Hillary ignored them) and the Trump campaign didn't take these States for granted. Even Michael Moore months out from the election called it when he said Trump will win the election because he was talking with average folk about the things they care about and Moore to his credit nailed it. I even thought he was playing the reverse psychology thingy when he said it and maybe a bit he was, but he was still spot on in the end.

No Russian conspiracy to see here folks, just an arrogant democratic party who can't come to grips they blew it against a reality TV star that comically their own friends in the media help in many respects to create and a bunch of democratic voters who talk a good game (not really) but will never make the hard choice and put real skin in the game as to what they claim they stand for.
 

Jkloc420

Do you need an air compressor or tire gauge
The whole Russian election hack is a conspiracy theory so democrats don't have to face the fact that not only was Hillary a terrible candidate but her campaign was a terrible campaign. She lost states in the midwest that are traditionally democrat because she choose not to seriously campaign there. Had she chosen to do so I think she would have easily beaten Trump as most expected the election outcome to be. I as well thought that would be the case all the way up to the moments the election results started coming in and then when Texas went Trump I went WOW!

The other amazing thing in all of this is the claims being made about this election being rigged when in many serious ways the democratic primary process itself was rigged from the get go against Bernie Sanders. Regardless whether you like Sanders or not, he is more true to what the democrat party "claims" to be as opposed to what the democratic party really are and that is a Corporatist political party. Think RINO under Democrat dress. Hillary was, is and will always be at heart a Goldwater Girl. There was a thrown election in 2016 and it was within the democratic party machinery where the election conspirators can actually be found and Bernie Sanders the victim. I think the Russian claims are as much to hide that from public view as it is a sorry excuse for why Hillary got beat.

But for the sake of argument, lets look at the election results and ask the question could the vote have somehow been manipulated by the Russians? Was that vote directly manipulated at the voting machine by Russian hackers? Was the American public manipulated by propaganda? Either way, seems one can consider either of these by comparing the 2016' vote totals with past election vote totals and see if there is a big difference or obvious irregularities.

This past election Trump got 62 million and change in votes and Hillary for 65 million and change but how does that compare for example to the 2012' election? Obama got 65 million and change and Romney got 60 million and change. In 2008' the results were Obama 69 million and change to 59 million and change for McCain. 2004 was 62 mil to 59 mil, 2000 was 50 mil to 50 mil with Gore actually getting a 500k more votes than Bush.

Hillary lost the election not because voters were manipulated by Russians, they lost because their own campaign strategy took for granted certain states (Hillary ignored them) and the Trump campaign didn't take these States for granted. Even Michael Moore months out from the election called it when he said Trump will win the election because he was talking with average folk about the things they care about and Moore to his credit nailed it. I even thought he was playing the reverse psychology thingy when he said it and maybe a bit he was, but he was still spot on in the end.

No Russian conspiracy to see here folks, just an arrogant democratic party who can't come to grips they blew it against a reality TV star that comically their own friends in the media help in many respects to create and a bunch of democratic voters who talk a good game (not really) but will never make the hard choice and put real skin in the game as to what they claim they stand for.
your right for the most except bernie is a boarder line commie. Also trump isnt a democrat or a Republican, he is more independent. It is why he calls out both parties. Both sides don't want the status qua to be affected
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
The whole Russian election hack is a conspiracy theory so democrats don't have to face the fact that not only was Hillary a terrible candidate but her campaign was a terrible campaign. She lost states in the midwest that are traditionally democrat because she choose not to seriously campaign there. Had she chosen to do so I think she would have easily beaten Trump as most expected the election outcome to be. I as well thought that would be the case all the way up to the moments the election results started coming in and then when Texas went Trump I went WOW!

The other amazing thing in all of this is the claims being made about this election being rigged when in many serious ways the democratic primary process itself was rigged from the get go against Bernie Sanders. Regardless whether you like Sanders or not, he is more true to what the democrat party "claims" to be as opposed to what the democratic party really are and that is a Corporatist political party. Think RINO under Democrat dress. Hillary was, is and will always be at heart a Goldwater Girl. There was a thrown election in 2016 and it was within the democratic party machinery where the election conspirators can actually be found and Bernie Sanders the victim. I think the Russian claims are as much to hide that from public view as it is a sorry excuse for why Hillary got beat.

But for the sake of argument, lets look at the election results and ask the question could the vote have somehow been manipulated by the Russians? Was that vote directly manipulated at the voting machine by Russian hackers? Was the American public manipulated by propaganda? Either way, seems one can consider either of these by comparing the 2016' vote totals with past election vote totals and see if there is a big difference or obvious irregularities.

This past election Trump got 62 million and change in votes and Hillary for 65 million and change but how does that compare for example to the 2012' election? Obama got 65 million and change and Romney got 60 million and change. In 2008' the results were Obama 69 million and change to 59 million and change for McCain. 2004 was 62 mil to 59 mil, 2000 was 50 mil to 50 mil with Gore actually getting a 500k more votes than Bush.

Hillary lost the election not because voters were manipulated by Russians, they lost because their own campaign strategy took for granted certain states (Hillary ignored them) and the Trump campaign didn't take these States for granted. Even Michael Moore months out from the election called it when he said Trump will win the election because he was talking with average folk about the things they care about and Moore to his credit nailed it. I even thought he was playing the reverse psychology thingy when he said it and maybe a bit he was, but he was still spot on in the end.

No Russian conspiracy to see here folks, just an arrogant democratic party who can't come to grips they blew it against a reality TV star that comically their own friends in the media help in many respects to create and a bunch of democratic voters who talk a good game (not really) but will never make the hard choice and put real skin in the game as to what they claim they stand for.
Can't disagree with your views of the Democratic Party's arrogance/ignorance this past election especially when it comes to Bernie, they certainly shot themselves in the foot. And I won't get into the real problem of the possibility of hacked elections by bringing up that Republican run server in Chattanooga that the 2004 Ohio votes were routed through.....

But, there was a lot of fake news being put out, and I'm not talking about CNN and Fox News. I'm talking about social media, which is where most people get their news, sadly. Stuff that has supposedly been sourced back to Russia and spread by botnets and useful idiots.

I'm not saying I necessarily trust the intelligence that source it to Russia, but it was put out there, systematically, by someone or some group with the sole purpose of influencing the election. It's certainly worth talking about.
 

Jkloc420

Do you need an air compressor or tire gauge
Can't disagree with your views of the Democratic Party's arrogance/ignorance this past election especially when it comes to Bernie, they certainly shot themselves in the foot. And I won't get into the real problem of the possibility of hacked elections by bringing up that Republican run server in Chattanooga that the 2004 Ohio votes were routed through.....

But, there was a lot of fake news being put out, and I'm not talking about CNN and Fox News. I'm talking about social media, which is where most people get their news, sadly. Stuff that has supposedly been sourced back to Russia and spread by botnets and useful idiots.

I'm not saying I necessarily trust the intelligence that source it to Russia, but it was put out there, systematically, by someone or some group with the sole purpose of influencing the election. It's certainly worth talking about.
Don't forget trump took the hardest hit, when that sex tape thing hit. Not to mention all the things he said that the news media played over and over. Therefore it was an even playing field
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
Don't forget trump took the hardest hit, when that sex tape thing hit. Not to mention all the things he said that the news media played over and over. Therefore it was an even playing field
Ok but I was talking about fake news, not the real disgusting things Trump was caught saying on camera.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Can't disagree with your views of the Democratic Party's arrogance/ignorance this past election especially when it comes to Bernie, they certainly shot themselves in the foot. And I won't get into the real problem of the possibility of hacked elections by bringing up that Republican run server in Chattanooga that the 2004 Ohio votes were routed through.....

But, there was a lot of fake news being put out, and I'm not talking about CNN and Fox News. I'm talking about social media, which is where most people get their news, sadly. Stuff that has supposedly been sourced back to Russia and spread by botnets and useful idiots.

I'm not saying I necessarily trust the intelligence that source it to Russia, but it was put out there, systematically, by someone or some group with the sole purpose of influencing the election. It's certainly worth talking about.

2004' didn't involve the Russians but regarding election hacking, oh anything is possible and I don't for one minute think that election results aren't monkeyed with but can I present evidence to prove it beyond doubt?

Ah, that is another kettle of fish indeed.

I would also suspect the Russians, the Israelis and a whole lot of other countries had people not only inside both political conventions but likely were closer in to our elections and let's not kid ourselves, our gov't does it back to them and more. We've been manipulating the politics of other countries for most of the last 100 plus years easy. Go research Operation Gladio just for starters. In our own country to our own citizenry, CoIntelPro or even Project Mockingbird. Those don't even begin to scratch the surface.

That is what makes this whole Russian conspiracy so laughable to me.

If it is true, The Chickens Have Come Home To Roost!
 

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
2004' didn't involve the Russians but regarding election hacking, oh anything is possible and I don't for one minute think that election results aren't monkeyed with but can I present evidence to prove it beyond doubt?

Ah, that is another kettle of fish indeed.

I would also suspect the Russians, the Israelis and a whole lot of other countries had people not only inside both political conventions but likely were closer in to our elections and let's not kid ourselves, our gov't does it back to them and more. We've been manipulating the politics of other countries for most of the last 100 plus years easy. Go research Operation Gladio just for starters. In our own country to our own citizenry, CoIntelPro or even Project Mockingbird. Those don't even begin to scratch the surface.

That is what makes this whole Russian conspiracy so laughable to me.

If it is true, The Chickens Have Come Home To Roost!
Commeuppance, no doubt. Chickens come home to roost, couldn't have put it better.

In more recent history, I doubt Russia is happy about the position our government and media took on the protests surrounding their 2011 elections, calling it illegitimate and dubbing the protests the "snow revolution".....
 
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