Are you saying the 3.90 should go into the pension plan so they can increase is more? Or do you think UPS should take some of those "record profits" everyone keeps talking about and put it in your healthcare and pension? Or should you get those two things and the raises? What about the part-timers everyone claims to care about should they get the same? Or should the company take more of those "record profits" and put more into them also? I want one of the accountants on the people who run a multi billion dollar company to tell us how much money UPS should make per year based on fact not just some crap about record profits. Help me please because I just don't know how much they should make. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
Have you read my posts. I am not like anonymous who said to go back through 9 months of posts to see what I said. I have only posted on this thread and there is only 11 pages. But I will be more than glad to tell you again. UPS can make their own profit margin by how much they charge for services compared to the cost of doing business (salaries, aircraft, feeders, package cars, etc). $32 some dollars an hour is a helluva a wage for what we are doing.
The average package driver probably makes $70,000-$80,000 and the average feeder driver probably $80,000-$90,000. Who is complaining about that money. 30 and out retirement is $36,000 before our $200/month increase which we are not seeing yet. This is less than half of what we make now. You basically can't retire until you are 62 or 65 and use Social Security to supplement your income. And for those younger employees Social Security may not even be around when they retire. There are some exceptions who have a good portfolio (401k, stocks, bonds) and can afford to retire on $36,000/yr. But these are the exceptions to the rule.
I would have elected to take my entire raise and send it to the pension fund to get a benefit of $54,000 annual pension. Do you remember in late 1997 I believe it was when we finally got a 30 and out pension? I think it started at 30 and out at $2500/month but was then raised to $3000/month. We were making around $20/hour at the time. You do the math. Your $3000/month pension was just a little less than a 40 hour work week. 40 hours at $20/hour is $3200/month. That was a good pension back then.
Right now we get $3200/month. A $200/month pension increase in 20 years! Do the math. At the current rate, a 40 hour work week grosses about $5100/month. Our pension should be a little less than the 40 hour work week. That's how I am coming up with a $4500/month pension. If it needs another $3.90 an hour over the next 5 years to get it there, hell yes, send the raise to it. Most people will not increase their savings based on the raise they get. Most will usually just spend it. So sending it to a defined pension sounds like a better idea. They can then count on that money when they retire.
About the "record profits," I have never said to take more. I have said to at least keep what we have now. Why should we have to take a concession when the company is making "record profits." The company giving up 17i has nothing to do with financials. Teamcare is a concession.
Talk to any accountant. A P/E ratio (price to earnings) in the double digits means a company is financially strong and doing "VERY" well. UPS, I believe was around 12 the last time I looked. This is where they like to be. This 12 P/E nets them between $4 Billion and $5 Billion/yr. But by doing "VERY" well, I believe they can pay the part timers more and still keep their P/E above 10. Full time rate is excellent except for the lengthy progression. I started part time in 1984 at $8.00/hour. Excellent wage back then. Until the last contract, part timers remained at that $8.00/hr starting rate for the last 25 years. In that 25 years, the full time rate increased by almost $20/hr.
Yes you read that right. Full time got a $20/hr increase and part time got a $.50 increase in the past 25 years. They got a little more this contract, but this is ridiculous.
So UPS can make as much as they want by charging what they want but they can price themselves right out of business. Paying the part timers more and keeping the full timers where they are at or a COLA increase, sending the typical $.50-$.70/hr raise to keep up with pension costs can still keep them competitively priced and keep their P/E in the double digits, allow the part timers to at least be able to put food on the table, allow the full timers a reasonable pension and make everyone relatively happy, except for obviously, YOU.[/quote]
Not asking you to go through 9 months of posts but I would like to know how much profit they should make? The post isn't just intended for you. They can only charge so much for services. If you have looked at the cost of doing business compared to our non union competition our cost of doing business is FAR above our competition which by the way has better time in transit in more locations than us now. The $32 wage rate is actually $50 per hour which most people don't factor H and W & Pension into their wages. It is one hell of a wage rate. And by the way every freakin penny is earned.
You and I may have elected to put the $3.90 into pension to try to see an increase because we are very close in seniority and retirement but the people at the bottom aren't thinking about that. Did you when you were 21 and started driving? Probably not.
As far as talking to any accountant I want to hear from the accountant on here that is running a multibillion dollar company tell me how much they should make. I don't think anyone on this site is qualified to answer that myself included. It is easy for people to make those statements without anything to back it up or never having negotiated a contract.
If they put the pay raise into pension and increased the part-time rate $3.90 the contract would NEVER pass. There are already part-time employees making more than you are as a package car driver that's why they got rid of the catch up raise last contract.
I was a part-time employee working another job because it is intended to be a part-time job. Do I think they should make more hell yes but where does it come from. They can't change benefits, vacations or anything else because no one would vote for it.
By the way what's with the YOU in caps that hurt my feelings.
to do this on a phone.
