Time to vote on the Ohio Rider again
- Thread starter Anonymous 11
- Start date
Yeah, got mine in the mail. Pretty much as expected, beyond disappointing. Can anybody interpret for me what this new language means? What is a discipline notice anyway? How many disciplinary notices are consider excessive and define designee?
Sounds like typical grievance process to me covered under labor law. Seriously does this really improve anything from the Master or Supplemental language.
I noticed that Local 348 will maintain their current Health and Welfare Plan through the life of this Agreement. Does anybody have any insight or information about that, is it a company or union controlled plan?
Thanks Stone
Thank Stone, I did look up L348 in Akron, sounds like they are happy with their current health benefits. I noticed nothing about this being a authorization for a strike vote, last time we had one in our local it was at the hall, old fashion yea or nays.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
As you stated the bonus is a transportation issue that's why they are getting it. They have to order more buses or trams whatever they call them. That was in the last offer in 89 that they already rejected.
We are on opposite sides of the fence regarding voting yes or no. People have their own reasons for how they vote and it is their right we just don't agree with each other and that ok.
The Ohio Rider can not and will not change the healthcare, 17 I, shorten progression, create more 22.3 jobs in Ohio. It is in my opinion a dead issue. These things were negotiated in the National Master and Central Region. They can't be renegotiated.
Some of the things that are being asked for in Ohio such as stop subcontracting protect workers from harassment and improve working conditions are also addressed in the National Master. We should be grieving those issues with the facts. I understand certain people aren't happy but the language in the contract is very good it just needs to be enforced. I have been successful when they have tried to harass me in the past to put a stop to it.
Vote however you want just vote (YES)
Stonefish...You sound just like my BA. WE can agree to disagree, but it is people like you who keep telling other members that things like 17i and healthcare cannot change are doing more harm than good.
Yes, labor law does not allow the re-opening of the NMUPSA or the CRS to the NMUPSA to change that agreement, but any supplement or rider overrides any other existing document. We can include article 17 in the Ohio Rider and delete 17i. This is legal, binding and can be done. Will it? No. But it can legally be done.
The same with healthcare. The letter of understanding in the Ohio Rider just needs to be changed. Instead of "Local 348 will maintain their current Health and Welfare Plan." This can be changes to "all employee will maintain their current Health and Welfare Plan.
Again, will these changes take place. I agree with you...NO!!! 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. We both agree that this is a dead issue, but please do not mislead people. Hoffa and Hall are already doing the hat dance, half truths.
Your half truth is that the NMUPSA and CRS cannot be re-opened and changed. TRUE. But language can be inserted into the Ohio Rider to change these issues.
Stonefish
Well-Known Member
Read what I posted what I said was in my opinion. Also back at you with misleading.
Stonefish
Well-Known Member
First of all I'm not your and BA not interested in what he is telling you.
Let me try to clarify so I'm clear on my opinion. Healthcare or 17I will not change in the Ohio Rider. In MY opinion that doesn't mean I'm right it's my opinion.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
I also agree that it will not change. but the fact that people, including Hoffa and Hall, are telling their members that it is illegal to change, are lying to their members. It can be added to the Ohio Rider and the Ohio Rider overrides the NMUPSA and the CRS to the UPSMA. Article 17 can be added to the Ohio Rider, keeping 17a-17h and not including 17i. The same with healthcare. If the Ohio Rider offers alternative healthcare, like staying in the plan we are in, we are not obligated to join Teamcare under the NMUPSA. Again, the Ohio Rider overrides the NMUPSA.
We can both agree that this will not happen though.
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Stonefish
Well-Known Member
NEVER
Again, will these changes take place. I agree with you...NO!!! 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. We both agree that this is a dead issue, but please do not mislead people. Hoffa and Hall are already doing the hat dance, half truths.
Your half truth is that the NMUPSA and CRS cannot be re-opened and changed. TRUE. But language can be inserted into the Ohio Rider to change these issues.[/quote]
Just got a flyer from the international. Typical appeal about getting your retro pay, you deserve it..Made he sick to my stomach. You wonder really what the international thinks about their members. I will let it go and try to play nice. The phrase comes to mind "Men without chests" quoting C.S Lewis.
Half truths would be more descriptive as Lies.
Your half truth is that the NMUPSA and CRS cannot be re-opened and changed. TRUE. But language can be inserted into the Ohio Rider to change these issues.[/quote]
Just got a flyer from the international. Typical appeal about getting your retro pay, you deserve it..Made he sick to my stomach. You wonder really what the international thinks about their members. I will let it go and try to play nice. The phrase comes to mind "Men without chests" quoting C.S Lewis.
Half truths would be more descriptive as Lies.
Stonefish
Well-Known Member
Just got a flyer from the international. Typical appeal about getting your retro pay, you deserve it..Made he sick to my stomach. You wonder really what the international thinks about their members. I will let it go and try to play nice. The phrase comes to mind "Men without chests" quoting C.S Lewis.
Half truths would be more descriptive as Lies.[/quote]
How can it be a half truth if you agree the National and Central can not be reopened. Let's keep going back and forth. You also agree it isn't going to change in the Ohio Rider. I am anticipating your response.
How can it be a half truth if you agree the National and Central can not be reopened. Let's keep going back and forth. You also agree it isn't going to change in the Ohio Rider. I am anticipating your response.[/quote]
Stone, You may be right, maybe it is a done deal. No matter how good our debates and observations are on this site nothing major gets accomplished. I admire all you guys and gals that post on Brown Cafe, like I said before we a minority, we care.
Maybe I am a idealist, but UNION means more to be than looking out for Number Uno or seeing your fellow brother in need and say "it sure sucks being you".
Thinking that one individual would matter or make a difference, all well.
Getting off my soapbox now...Solidarity
Stonefish
Well-Known Member
Stone, You may be right, maybe it is a done deal. No matter how good our debates and observations are on this site nothing major gets accomplished. I admire all you guys and gals that post on Brown Cafe, like I said before we a minority, we care.
Maybe I am a idealist, but UNION means more to be than looking out for Number Uno or seeing your fellow brother in need and say "it sure sucks being you".
Thinking that one individual would matter or make a difference, all well.
Getting off my soapbox now...Solidarity[/quote]
You are correct not many people actually really care.
We also agree with each other that a union shouldn't be looking out for número uno. That is where the difference of opinion is and there can never be a correct answer. You feel one way I feel another. People who vote no think they're getting the short end. People who vote yes think the no voters are screwing them. The whole situation sucks.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
How can it be a half truth if you agree the National and Central can not be reopened. Let's keep going back and forth. You also agree it isn't going to change in the Ohio Rider. I am anticipating your response.[/quote]
The NMUPSA and CRS cannot be re-opened and re-negotiated, but language can be added to the Ohio Rider to supersede the language in the NMUPSA and CRS. Hoffa is not telling anyone this. He makes it look like it is a done deal in the NMUPSA and cannot be changed. Half truth. It cannot be changed, but it can be overrode by a rider.
I say it will not happen because most members don't have the balls anymore to stand up to UPS let alone Hoffa "AND" UPS. If enough people stood together and continued to vote no, maybe Hoffa and UPS might address our concerns and add language in the Ohio Rider that most of us want.
Being an optimist, our healthcare could remain the same (no Teamcare) and 17i could be eliminated.
Being a realist, it ain't going to happen because not enough people will stand up to Hoffa.
To summarize, Hoffa is saying it cannot change. Lie. It can. Do I think it will change. No. But it can.
Stonefish
Well-Known Member
The NMUPSA and CRS cannot be re-opened and re-negotiated, but language can be added to the Ohio Rider to supersede the language in the NMUPSA and CRS. Hoffa is not telling anyone this. He makes it look like it is a done deal in the NMUPSA and cannot be changed. Half truth. It cannot be changed, but it can be overrode by a rider.
I say it will not happen because most members don't have the balls anymore to stand up to UPS let alone Hoffa "AND" UPS. If enough people stood together and continued to vote no, maybe Hoffa and UPS might address our concerns and add language in the Ohio Rider that most of us want.
Being an optimist, our healthcare could remain the same (no Teamcare) and 17i could be eliminated.
Being a realist, it ain't going to happen because not enough people will stand up to Hoffa.
To summarize, Hoffa is saying it cannot change. Lie. It can. Do I think it will change. No. But it can.[/quote]
We keep repeating our posts it's like ground hogs day. It is not a lie that the National Master and the Central Region can not change. Let's start with that do you agree with me???
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
We keep repeating our posts it's like ground hogs day. It is not a lie that the National Master and the Central Region can not change. Let's start with that do you agree with me???[/quote]
Yes
Stonefish
Well-Known Member
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Thank you[/quote]
My turn. Do you think Hoffa is misleading the members by saying this? Sounds like he is saying your health care is a done deal. Live with it. No mention of the possibility to override the NMUPSA language in the Ohio Rider. He is telling the truth, but not the whole truth. Agree?
