Tom

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
it is a great issue when you argue what unionism is doing to this company. Do we really want brown eyed girl refusing to pick up those packages and telling the customer to call someone else. I think Brown eyed girl has the right idea and made it easy for the customer. Once she did she felt it would have been unethical to ask to be paid at a higher rate. This ethics thing is actually a good thing that the union probably struggles to understand.....:)
Nobody said anything about "refusing to pick up packages". The issue is getting paid in accordance with the contract that both the company and the union agreed to. How is it ethical to manipulate a naive air driver into thinking that they are the only one who can pickup those ground pieces ( that's BS and we all know it) with some song and dance about "teamwork" and "helping out the customer" when in fact the real reason is to avoid paying the contractually negotiated wage? How is unethical to ask to be paid that wage for the work performed? Who is really being unethical here?
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
She made a decision in the interests of service.
if that is the case, then another driver is entitled to the money, as she is not authorized to make decisions like that. as such, maybe sober needs to drive around and at random pick up air packages from other pickup accounts to "be in the interests of service". after all, he has a much more seasoned view of what the customers and company need.......

so that cow dont fly. you and i both know that she was told to make the pickup, by a sup. and it the ethical responsibility of the sup and the company to pay her at the agreed to rate without needing to ask.

now, lets address her personal belief system. if it were her personal belief system that ups has too many packages, and she needs to relieve some of that stress by taking two packages home with her, or tossing them into the trash. you would have a real issue with her belief system.
because it costs you money, and it is wrong.

so, why is it that in this case you hide behind her personal belief system to do something wrong on your end? have you no ethics or integrity?

one last thing.

most air drivers, beg included, have posted that they are afraid to ask for the pay, because management will retaliate by not allowing them to get in more hours, or block the proper bid process for the person to go into full time driving. now, whether those threats are actually real or not is not the issue, its that they are bribed into doing something unethical without complaining, by someone that is even more unethical. and after a while, to show their "team spirit" they end up projecting what beg has stated, and you translate that into a personal conviction.

so i am not very impressed on your insistence of this continuing charade of being unethical, and hiding behind a woman you have bullied around to be a "team player"

your up!

d
 

tieguy

Banned
upstate I think the intent of the language is there to protect high paying jobs in specfic scenarios. It was meant to keep the company from continously using lower paid drivers to do higher paid work. If her sup is telling her to go out and do that work each day then she should demand and be paid the higher rate.

I think we violate the intent with random scenarios like this one.

you guys try to make it out as a management taking advantage of her scenario to justify the attempted theft. In reality she knew if anyone else was in the area and she did the right thing for the customer. She then weighed all factors and decided it would violate her personal belief system to ask for the higher rate.

you folks should have educated her on the intent of the language , lauded her for her principles and left it alone. Not try to encourage, justify and blast her for not engaging in theft.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
I am not scared to file a grievance, I just don't believe in them. On occasion, when the regular driver couldn't make a pick-up for some reason, have picked up over 70 pieces of ground because no one else was available. I view it as teamwork.

Someone may call it losing out on a lot of money, but I call it job experience and customer satisfaction.
I call it scared. Everything you post screams I'm scared to demand the pay I'm entitled to. Your altruistic intentions would be better off channeled toward a more worthy organization than UPS. The Red Cross comes to mind.
 

tieguy

Banned
bubble sounds like another mind game to try to intimidate your people into theft.

It may be a strange concept but some people actually think they would like to earn money not steal it.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
bubble sounds like another mind game to try to intimidate your people into theft.

It may be a strange concept but some people actually think they would like to earn money not steal it.
How is it stealing! How is it not money earned. Now when I grieve as well and get paid at time and a half as well for those hours, that will be something for nothing. That's when this house of cards comes tumbling down for the company and the practice ceases. I've seen it first hand.
 

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Well-Known Member
I call it scared. Everything you post screams I'm scared to demand the pay I'm entitled to. Your altruistic intentions would be better off channeled toward a more worthy organization than UPS. The Red Cross comes to mind.

How about the U.S. Navy for 20 years where we call it honor, courage, commitment. Would that be a worthy enough organization to please you Bubbles?

When I say that I am not scared, that means I am not scared.

My service has made me who I am today (which included teamwork). Do you honestly think that I had a union to go to and file a greivance for wrong doing? No, you suck it up and do it.

To the other gentlemen posting about the pick up, please allow me to give details. I ran a route in Mequon which is far from the center. Received a call that the regular driver did not pick up at Factory A. They asked me if I would do this and I said yes. While this is going to upset some people, it saved the company from sending another driver at $28 per hour or whatever and they paid me $13.50 which is my rate, I was already there. A box is still a box and the customer needed it picked up.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
upstate I think the intent of the language is there to protect high paying jobs in specfic scenarios. It was meant to keep the company from continously using lower paid drivers to do higher paid work.

continuously, now there is an interesting word. see, i think that if there is an emergency, that is one thing, because there is no way you can plan for them. now, even if it is twice a year, you send her out knowing she is going to pick up packages that are "off limits" to her job classification, then you owe her the money.
If her sup is telling her to go out and do that work each day then she should demand and be paid the higher rate.

again, why should she demand it. you signed the contract stating that you will pay the rate if the job is performed.

thats kinda like taking advantage of a young lady. you just finished having dinner and sex. the agreement was that after sex, you would pay her $100. but because she now has some misguided belief (planted by you btw) that if you paid her, she would be nothing more than a hooker, she has some religious epiphany that what she did is great, without being wrong, as long as you dont pay her for the act. so you take advantage of her purely for your financial gain, not that you respect her belief system.

I think we violate the intent with random scenarios like this one.

your dang right you keep on violating intent. on a daily basis. and you keep on intending to violate as far as you can, with the occasional call on the carpet grievance to keep you in check.

you guys try to make it out as a management taking advantage of her

wow, and your not????? please, tell me you did not just have the brain fart to post that sentence? you are taking advantage of her, and you know it.

scenario to justify the attempted theft.

what attempted theft? there was no attempt, you did steal from her, to make your silly little numbers look good. and you know that is the real reason, not the extra money. if you show her as a driver, she ends up in the report as such, so you have to eat her time. and you really dont want that, now do you. so instead, you steal from her, and then have the splendid defense that it is her fault, because of her misguided beliefs? geez tie, surely you can do better than that.

In reality she knew if anyone else was in the area

oh really? so now we are letting part time air drivers be in charge of dispatch? holy cow, you guys are really scared you are getting fired, arnt you, to already be authorizing part time hourly to be in charge.

and she did the right thing for the customer.

we really dont know for sure one way or another if this is the case. all we have was the excuse that she was told to do so, and she did as she was told. so she did the right thing per the contract. she was instructed to pick up the packages by management. the customer service is nothing but another ups red herring to side track the actual case.

She then weighed all factors and decided it would violate her personal belief system to ask for the higher rate.

but you dont have one dang problem with tossing your belief system out the door to allow you to save the extra money and the few clicks on the report, do you? and you really dont understand the contract either that keeps you from changing what is written, to what you feel good about.

you folks should have educated her on the intent of the language

what, after you have told her how it is going to be, if she ever wants a full time delivery job, she is to be the team player you want her to be? you want us to educate her? it was you that pulled the wool over her eyes that caused her to report after the fact, that it was to "give" the customer service

you have abused your position at ups to manipulate a green employee to do your bidding, violate the contract, and feel great about it afterwords. see paragraph about sex above if you still dont get it.

lauded her for her principles

as long as her principles increase your bottom line, and improve your margins, you are a great respecter of them, arnt you?

what about people who's religious views and beliefs say its wrong for them to work after sundown on fridays, and during the day saturday? you dont have one qualm about violating their belief, now do you? and i can name hundreds if not thousands of other beliefs that ups and their management has no problems violating.

and left it alone. Not try to encourage, justify and blast her for not engaging in theft.

now aint that just like a sup. they are stealing from her, yet he has the gall to say we are blasting her for engaging in theft. what about the theft you engaged in. thats right, you.

sorry tie, you are wrong, you know it, but you still defend your position?

next

d
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
beg

first, please allow me to thank you for the service to your country. there is no way that the military can pay its service members enough for what they do day in and out. while i dont know exactly what you did for the navy, i am sure you conducted yourself each and every day with honor and dignity befitting your rank and personal integrity.

now, i am not posting anything against you or what you did. you followed instructions, which is your job.
what is not your job is to have to request to be paid at the higher wage. that is the moral responsibility of the company, not you. they asked you to pick up the packages. in doing so, they knew what the results of their actions would and should be. but instead of acting with integrity and honor, they used you to do something wrong, and then, as real men in management have a penchant for doing, hid behind you.

I am sorry you ended up caught in the cross fire, its not your fault.

i do find it of interest that tie is telling us to educate you so this never happens again, but yet when we try, they accuse the union of brainwashing the new employees to be anti ups.
what is happening instead is that they have brainwashed you into believing you are on their team. be careful, very careful, this is not the navy, where your team has your back to the death. their view of the team is where they can take advantage of the situation to bypass the contract, and yes, to save a few bucks. but what it also did was falsify the on road time on the reports. and that is the biggie your team work helped them accomplish.

as for
it saved the company from sending another driver at $28 per hour or whatever and they paid me $13.50 which is my rate,
that indicated that there were other drivers that could have done the job, but were not offered or asked.

so again, they used you. (for using, see post above)

respectfully

d
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
I don't agree. She made a decision in the interests of service.

Right or wrong this type of language is what I was referring to when I made that point that a lot of upsers think this type of language offends their personal ethics belief. The biggest thief in the world can find a reason to justify his theft and often do.

You don't agree read the contract if you can't read ask someone to read it too you.
 
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UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
How about the U.S. Navy for 20 years where we call it honor, courage, commitment. Would that be a worthy enough organization to please you Bubbles?

This isn't the NAVY UPS doesn't OWN you.

When I say that I am not scared, that means I am not scared.

Is your nose growing

My service has made me who I am today (which included teamwork). Do you honestly think that I had a union to go to and file a greivance for wrong doing? No, you suck it up and do it.

You don't suck it up. You file a greivance so that the next time management might think twice about it.

To the other gentlemen posting about the pick up, please allow me to give details. I ran a route in Mequon which is far from the center. Received a call that the regular driver did not pick up at Factory A. They asked me if I would do this and I said yes. While this is going to upset some people, it saved the company from sending another driver at $28 per hour or whatever and they paid me $13.50 which is my rate, I was already there. A box is still a box and the customer needed it picked up.

What you did is cheated another driver out of time and by not filing you cheated yourself out of $28 hr for your whole days pay.

Your one of the people that only like the union becauce it hard to get fired and the benifits other than that you could careless about the rest of the contract. If you don't like working by the contract go work for Fed Ex. You won't do that because you have no protection from getting fired or giving you benifits.
 

Jones

fILE A GRIEVE!
Staff member
How about the U.S. Navy for 20 years where we call it honor, courage, commitment. Would that be a worthy enough organization to please you Bubbles?

When I say that I am not scared, that means I am not scared.

My service has made me who I am today (which included teamwork). Do you honestly think that I had a union to go to and file a greivance for wrong doing? No, you suck it up and do it.

To the other gentlemen posting about the pick up, please allow me to give details. I ran a route in Mequon which is far from the center. Received a call that the regular driver did not pick up at Factory A. They asked me if I would do this and I said yes. While this is going to upset some people, it saved the company from sending another driver at $28 per hour or whatever and they paid me $13.50 which is my rate, I was already there. A box is still a box and the customer needed it picked up.
You really don't get it and it's easy to see why. You think that working for UPS is like being in the military and it's not, it's completely different. In the military you have leaders and teammates, at UPS you have managers and coworkers. The two goals of military leadership are:
1. Accomplishment of the mission
2. Welfare of the troops
The one goal of UPS management is to return a profit to the shareholders. Big Difference. It's not their job to give a rat's ass about you and believe me, they don't. You're just a tool to them.
In the military your teammates are the ones you eat, sleep and live with. You work together and look out for each other and fight for each other because you all swore an oath to serve your country and working as a team gives everyone the best chance of making it home in one piece.
At UPS you have coworkers who are just there to do their job and earn a paycheck. Delivering a Lands End package to Grandma has nothing to do with national security. Big difference.
In the military loyalty goes both ways up and down the chain of command.
At UPS loyalty doesn't go anywhere. You better look out for yourself because no one else will, least of all your manager. They don't have any loyalty to each other, and they sure as hell don't have any loyalty to you. But talking about loyalty for a second, think about what you did. You say you "saved the company from sending another driver out there at $28 per hour". No you didn't. What you really did is screw your coworker who's trying to earn a living and feed his family. Where's your "loyalty" to him?
Like I said earlier, some day the light is gonna switch on in your head, you're gonna realize what kind of company you work for, and you're gonna feel like a fool when you remember the things you did and said.
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
You really don't get it and it's easy to see why. You think that working for UPS is like being in the military and it's not, it's completely different. In the military you have leaders and teammates, at UPS you have managers and coworkers. The two goals of military leadership are:
1. Accomplishment of the mission
2. Welfare of the troops
The one goal of UPS is management is to return a profit to the shareholders. Big Difference. It's not their job to give a rat's ass about you and believe me, they don't. You're just a tool to them.
In the military your teammates are the ones you eat, sleep and live with. You work together and look out for each other and fight for each other because you all swore an oath to serve your country and working as a team gives everyone the best chance of making it home in one piece.
At UPS you have coworkers who are just there to do their job and earn a paycheck. Delivering a Lands End package to Grandma has nothing to do with national security. Big difference.
In the military loyalty goes both ways up and down the chain of command.
At UPS loyalty doesn't go anywhere. You better look out for yourself because no one else will, least of all your manager. They don't have any loyalty to each other, and they sure as hell don't have any loyalty to you. But talking about loyalty for a second, think about what you did. You say you "saved the company from sending another driver out there at $28 per hour". No you didn't. What you really did is screw your coworker who's trying to earn a living and feed his family. Where's your "loyalty" to him?
Like I said earlier, some day the light is gonna switch on in your head, you're gonna realize what kind of company you work for, and you're gonna feel like a fool when you remember the things you did and said.

The light is never going to switch on unless someone replaces the bulb.
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
72, thanks for your post, i forgot one additional response to managements stand
Originally Posted by tieguy
I don't agree. She made a decision in the interests of service.

Right or wrong this type of language is what I was referring to when I made that point that a lot of upsers think this type of language offends their personal ethics belief. The biggest thief in the world can find a reason to justify his theft and often do.
ah tie tie tie

out of the mouth of babes springs forth the truth.

in this conversation, ups is the biggest thief in the world, and their justification is the bottom line. anything to make it look better, you do. that includes falsifying on road records, time cards, pay information, anything you can do to make yourself look better to your team, you are more than willing to do. and thus make the bottom line look better. all you have to do is check your integrity and ethics at the guard shack as you enter, they will watch it for you till you leave.

you have a legal obligation. it is to pay beg what she is due, and has earned, per your instructions. now that she has done what you asked, you have the gall not to pay? that makes you a thief, and in your mind, you have justified what you are doing as the "right thing to do".

maybe you have passed that point of no return already, where you cant tell right from wrong, only justification for your wrong doing.

I'm sure the people at the top are so proud. but my sincere belief is that if he were still alive, jim casey would personally and physcally kick your behind out of ups, with the instructions of "dont ever come back". you and anyone at the top that even considers this to be a good business practice.

beg, you are welcome.

dont take the other posters posts to you too hard. you have swallowed the teamwork coolaid that ups managers have given to newbies for years to accomplish things off the books, to make themselves look better. you didnt know. but i assure you, the minute your behavior out on road differs from what they are trying to accomplish.......remember the scene in rambo, where they actually found, and could have retrieved the mia's. while fictional, the actions of the people in power is the same that your "team leaders" will use, if it comes to it. not at all like your team experiences of the past.

best

d
 

dannyboy

From the promised LAND
ahhhh not what i said.

if you insist on drinking from the coolaid jar, you will be burned. not only by the company team, but the union as well.

what is funny though, in many cases, the used person that ups has thrown to the curb, ends up becoming a union extremist. seen it time and time again.

one day, when you wake up with that dirty, used feeling, you will understand. or then again, maybe not. maybe like some of the others, you will just disapear from brown alltogether. seen that too.

or in a very few cases, have seen them go on to become people like ups socks.

the pathway is before you, grasshopper, choose wisely.

d
 

Brown_Eyed_Girl

Well-Known Member
I like fruit punch kool aid please. But that is the thing, I have a decent rapport and keep professional with all supervisors whether it's in the hub or air driving. And like I said before, once I feel that is violated, then I will leave UPS.

Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the grievance band wagon just for touching a box I'm not supposed to. Please give my regards to the full time driver and his kids that I took money from. Funny and ludacris all at the same time.
 
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UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
Well, we all agree to disagree. It's cool.

No you choose to let management not work by the contract. Since you currently like the situation your in you don't care what managment does but when you finally figure out that management in screwing you, you might have a different opinion like dannyboy has said.
 

UPSGUY72

Well-Known Member
I like fruit punch kool aid please. But that is the thing, I have a decent rapport and keep professional with all supervisors whether it's in the hub or air driving. And like I said before, once I feel that is violated, then I will leave UPS.

Sorry, but I'm not going to jump on the grievance band wagon just for touching a box I'm not supposed to. Please give my regards to the full time driver and his kids that I took money from. Funny and ludacris all at the same time.

Don't worry they will use and abuse you till your figure it out. Which is going to be along time for you.
 
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