Virtual time study.

[705red]

This article was never meant to include software used by management in the performance of their management jobs.

For you to challenge this software your side would have to acknowledge the need for work measurement. Your side has always refused to acknowledge any forms of ups work measurement.

Tie this software that management is using in their jobs will now directly effect the work force were it is changeable. How reliable is this software?

Is it like mapquest? Because when we had a 710 barn close and those employees moved into palatine their drive time was calculated by map quest and everyone of them were running hours over on a daily basis.

How precise is it? Is it similiar to what the government uses? because we know they have never bombed the wrong target using this sophisticated gps tracking.

Is this going to turn into another one of your rants about how inexperienced those union guys at 705 are?

You also say that the union has no say in whats an avoidable or unavoidable accident. I say absolutely the union does because if it can lead to discipline accidents are grievable.

 

[pretzel_man]

Tie this software that management is using in their jobs will now directly effect the work force were it is changeable. How reliable is this software?

Is it like mapquest? Because when we had a 710 barn close and those employees moved into palatine their drive time was calculated by map quest and everyone of them were running hours over on a daily basis.

How precise is it? Is it similiar to what the government uses? because we know they have never bombed the wrong target using this sophisticated gps tracking.

Is this going to turn into another one of your rants about how inexperienced those union guys at 705 are?

You also say that the union has no say in whats an avoidable or unavoidable accident. I say absolutely the union does because if it can lead to discipline accidents are grievable.

I had a chance to see this system and use it a little. If you are looking for an absolutely 100% accurate system, it doesn't exist. The inaccuracies of hills were already mentioned here.

On the other hand, today a time study observer is not 100% accurate either.

When a time study is done, the observer spends 9 or so hours on car, and another few hours calculating the information from the study. With that work, they have analyzed about 150 stops and their associated walk distances.

With this system, they can analyze many hundreds of stops in a few hours.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, the satellite images are extremely accurate. Remember, it is only used to calculate walk distances, not travel path or travel time.

Also, the information is saved and can be reproduced.

I'm not sure why the push back on a system that increases accuracy, reduces management time, and is auditable...

I agree with Tie. If you think this system needs to be approved by the union, you will have to accept the validity of time study.

I would have thought your stance would have been, "let management have all the toys they want, we don't recognize the output of them anyway".

P-Man

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

JT-I think Upstate is simply trying make a point about what a great driver he is. He likes to brag about his excellent work ethic and how fast he can go. He never mentions that he shows up an hour early and sets his truck up on his own time. If everyone set their truck up stop for stop before work, I am sure they would get done faster too. This time study debate will go on long after we are all gone. It has been going on ever since I started here.

Please enjoy your return to my ignore list.

 

[soberups]

I agree with Tie. If you think this system needs to be approved by the union, you will have to accept the validity of time study.

I would have thought your stance would have been, "let management have all the toys they want, we don't recognize the output of them anyway".

I have to say I agree with Tieguy and P-man here. The timestudies are not fair; they never have been fair; they were never intended to be fair. To grieve the new manner in which they are being done is to recognize what they produce. That is NOT a road we want to go down.

I would love to be wrong here. I would love it if the new studies could be more easily disputed, challenged and corrected when wrong. Perhaps the new method will allow for this...but I wont be holding my breath. It is still my belief that timestudies are a zero-sum game, and that before they are done it has already been determined which routes will lose or gain time according to an overall business plan for the center. Time is money...why would UPS ever give away money?

 

[New Englander]

This article was never meant to include software used by management in the performance of their management jobs.

For you to challenge this software your side would have to acknowledge the need for work measurement. Your side has always refused to acknowledge any forms of ups work measurement.

That would end up meaning we would sheet delivery attempts after hours to commercial stops as CLO1, not missed. So we actually get credited with a del attempt. Or when we go to a driver meet/swap we sheet off as preload time or something else, right?

It's hard to get on board with recognizing the companies performance standards when much is against us.

Just like our breaks. Lunch does not hurt our performance, but here in NE both of our 10 minute breaks do. Take your breaks and your already in the hole twenty minutes.

 

[New Englander]

JT-I think Upstate is simply trying make a point about what a great driver he is. He likes to brag about his excellent work ethic and how fast he can go. He never mentions that he shows up an hour early and sets his truck up on his own time. If everyone set their truck up stop for stop before work, I am sure they would get done faster too. This time study debate will go on long after we are all gone. It has been going on ever since I started here.

Do you work with him?

This coming from someone who does not always see eye to eye with him.

STFU.

 

[outamyway]

It's gonna be kind of hard to see inside all the casinos here. Any time study will be a joke on the strip. It can take 10 minutes to deliver one package at one receiving dock, while another day it may take 3 minutes to deliver a bunch of packages. At some casinos you have to walk the package inside to get to the small shops near the front. Ever been around the Las Vegas strip at 3pm on a weekday afternoon? I don't recommend it. You'll get nowhere fast. Most of our strip drivers are 1 to 2 hours over allowed everyday.

For NDA we have approved "request late" (A) delivery stops at almost every casino on the strip. It's so unpredictable that it had to be done. Now most of the late air is due to preload fk ups (Most of these problems they tried to solve by hiring more part time sups, instead of preloaders. Guess what? We still have the same problems).

 

[New Englander]

It's gonna be kind of hard to see inside all the casinos here. Any time study will be a joke on the strip. It can take 10 minutes to deliver one package at one receiving dock, while another day it may take 3 minutes to deliver a bunch of packages. At some casinos you have to walk the package inside to get to the small shops near the front. Ever been around the Las Vegas strip at 3pm on a weekday afternoon? I don't recommend it. You'll get nowhere fast. Most of our strip drivers are 1 to 2 hours over allowed everyday.

For NDA we have approved "request late" (A) delivery stops at almost every casino on the strip. It's so unpredictable that it had to be done. Now most of the late air is due to preload fk ups (Most of these problems they tried to solve by hiring more part time sups, instead of preloaders. Guess what? We still have the same problems).

It's no different from our seasonal vacation spots. Maine/NH coastal summer spots, VT ski resorts etc.......

It'll be interesting. Trust me...at the center level your management team would love to see you guys GAIN time. It makes it easier for them as well.

 

[Coldworld]

There should be an allowance for using a handtruck, drivers get dinged for having to pull it out, hoading it, then rolling it inside the building, in the elevator or around the back where the ramp is. Someone told me one tine that handtruck use was "built" into the plan day...ummmm I believe thats bs. How does a program know if you have 2 letters for a front desk, or (2) 69 lb boxes going on the handtruck and through the BACK of the building? If your using a handtruck 10 times a day, thats a good amount of time being lost. I guess it doesnt matter anyway, the allowance only benefit the bulk cars or routes where drivers are pulling pups or picking up hundreds of pieces. Hey how about an allowance for BULKED OUT CAR. You only have like 8 seconds to grab a box off the shelf and be headed down the stairs, how are you suppose to do that when you cant even get the bulkhead door open enough to squeeze half your body back there. If you really think about it its ridiculous that they spend so much time on this kind of thing, which most people dont care about anyway. They do the best they can and thats that. Guess thats not good enough!

 

[Coldworld]

It's gonna be kind of hard to see inside all the casinos here. Any time study will be a joke on the strip. It can take 10 minutes to deliver one package at one receiving dock, while another day it may take 3 minutes to deliver a bunch of packages. At some casinos you have to walk the package inside to get to the small shops near the front. Ever been around the Las Vegas strip at 3pm on a weekday afternoon? I don't recommend it. You'll get nowhere fast. Most of our strip drivers are 1 to 2 hours over allowed everyday.

For NDA we have approved "request late" (A) delivery stops at almost every casino on the strip. It's so unpredictable that it had to be done. Now most of the late air is due to preload fk ups (Most of these problems they tried to solve by hiring more part time sups, instead of preloaders. Guess what? We still have the same problems).

ever had a sup riding with you and try to "push" a customer, especially at business docks to get the packages counted and signed for fast? Usually after the customer says that they dont work for ups, or that one call to their sales rep or the 1800 number, the sup sure shuts his mouth for the rest of the day.

 

[Coldworld]

It's gonna be kind of hard to see inside all the casinos here. Any time study will be a joke on the strip. It can take 10 minutes to deliver one package at one receiving dock, while another day it may take 3 minutes to deliver a bunch of packages. At some casinos you have to walk the package inside to get to the small shops near the front. Ever been around the Las Vegas strip at 3pm on a weekday afternoon? I don't recommend it. You'll get nowhere fast. Most of our strip drivers are 1 to 2 hours over allowed everyday.

For NDA we have approved "request late" (A) delivery stops at almost every casino on the strip. It's so unpredictable that it had to be done. Now most of the late air is due to preload fk ups (Most of these problems they tried to solve by hiring more part time sups, instead of preloaders. Guess what? We still have the same problems).

outa, do you know how many centers nevada actually has, seems like outside reno/sparks and las vegas areas theres not nuch going on??

 

[outamyway]

ever had a sup riding with you and try to "push" a customer, especially at business docks to get the packages counted and signed for fast?

No, but that's exactly why I don't push them. Cause' they are free to check the packages and sign when ever they want. If you push them they might make you wait and wait and wait some more everyday.

Most of the time they are helping someone else. I really have no right to butt in. When they're ready, I'll be ready.

 

[outamyway]

outa, do you know how many centers Nevada actually has, seems like outside reno/sparks and las Vegas areas theres not nuch going on??

There's two buildings in Las Vegas. Not sure about the whole state. You're right though, there's a lot of open land here.

I believe both our buildings deliver to all of Clark county. And at least one town in Arizona, close to the border.

I'm sure there are a few more places in the surrounding areas.

 

[tieguy]

Tie this software that management is using in their jobs will now directly effect the work force were it is changeable. How reliable is this software?

Is it like mapquest? Because when we had a 710 barn close and those employees moved into palatine their drive time was calculated by map quest and everyone of them were running hours over on a daily basis.

How precise is it? Is it similiar to what the government uses? because we know they have never bombed the wrong target using this sophisticated gps tracking.

Is this going to turn into another one of your rants about how inexperienced those union guys at 705 are?

You also say that the union has no say in whats an avoidable or unavoidable accident. I say absolutely the union does because if it can lead to discipline accidents are grievable.

Red, its a management tool for management to do their job. You're reaching here.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

I had a chance to see this system and use it a little. If you are looking for an absolutely 100% accurate system, it doesn't exist. The inaccuracies of hills were already mentioned here.

On the other hand, today a time study observer is not 100% accurate either.

When a time study is done, the observer spends 9 or so hours on car, and another few hours calculating the information from the study. With that work, they have analyzed about 150 stops and their associated walk distances.

With this system, they can analyze many hundreds of stops in a few hours.

In the overwhelming majority of cases, the satellite images are extremely accurate. Remember, it is only used to calculate walk distances, not travel path or travel time.

Also, the information is saved and can be reproduced.

I'm not sure why the push back on a system that increases accuracy, reduces management time, and is auditable...

I agree with Tie. If you think this system needs to be approved by the union, you will have to accept the validity of time study.

I would have thought your stance would have been, "let management have all the toys they want, we don't recognize the output of them anyway".

P-Man

BECAUSE........it is absolutely NOT more accurate and is ABSOLUTLY less accurate, Someome taking every step with you and recording sit time in traffic and speed limits etc as well as accurately reflecting all walk distances is by far more accurate than sitting at a computer trying to figure it out from a satellite image.

Either you think we are incredibly stupid or you are.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

There should be an allowance for using a handtruck, drivers get dinged for having to pull it out, hoading it, then rolling it inside the building, in the elevator or around the back where the ramp is. Someone told me one tine that handtruck use was "built" into the plan day...ummmm I believe thats bs. How does a program know if you have 2 letters for a front desk, or (2) 69 lb boxes going on the handtruck and through the BACK of the building? If your using a handtruck 10 times a day, thats a good amount of time being lost. I guess it doesnt matter anyway, the allowance only benefit the bulk cars or routes where drivers are pulling pups or picking up hundreds of pieces. Hey how about an allowance for BULKED OUT CAR. You only have like 8 seconds to grab a box off the shelf and be headed down the stairs, how are you suppose to do that when you cant even get the bulkhead door open enough to squeeze half your body back there. If you really think about it its ridiculous that they spend so much time on this kind of thing, which most people dont care about anyway. They do the best they can and thats that. Guess thats not good enough!

AND...that's the way it is folks!! I'm so sick and tired of being harrassed about over allowed I can't wait to finish out my 211 days, and I'll pretne this brown crap no longer exists!! Yes I have a negative attitude and UPS earned it.

 

[pretzel_man]

BECAUSE........it is absolutely NOT more accurate and is ABSOLUTLY less accurate, Someome taking every step with you and recording sit time in traffic and speed limits etc as well as accurately reflecting all walk distances is by far more accurate than sitting at a computer trying to figure it out from a satellite image.

Either you think we are incredibly stupid or you are.

I guess there are other options.

Maybe you are misinformed. Maybe you are not listening.

I'm not sure how many time studies you have taken. I'm not sure how many time study classes you have taught. I've done many of both.

The observer does NOT take every step with you. They estimate walk classes.

I've said multiple times that this program does NOT study traffic.

Have you seen this program?? I've seen the analysis on the accuracy of this program as compared to observers. Have you??

I know that I'm not stupid... I don't think you are...

We are running out of choices here. ...

What do you think the other options are?

P-Man

 

[brownmonster]

Leave my time study alone. It was done in 1992 and I'm fine with it.

 

[tourists24]

The observer does NOT take every step with you. They estimate walk classes.

I've said multiple times that this program does NOT study traffic.

Brings up a couple of questions Pretzel,,, what does estimating walk classes mean and how does it distinguish between a 5'0 tall female and a 6'4" 25 year old man? Also, if the program does not study traffic, how can it possibly be accurate?

 

[BigBrownSanta]

I'm just guessing, but...

Walk classes are the distances you have to walk to reach the delivery point. The distances are broken down into (as far as I can tell) 5 distances, 5-25', 26-50', 51-100', 101-200', and over 200'.

There are also types of walks, an outside walk and an inside walk. I don't know what the difference is, but an inside walk gives you more time allowance than an outside walk.

You get a certain amount of time allowance to walk each of the various distances. If you use a two wheeler, you get a little more time allowance. The basic allowance is roughly 1 second for each 5', but the interesting thing is that the allowance gets less the farther you have to walk.

I really don't see how changing walk classes will make a route show a more accurate plan. The difference is only measured in seconds, and as I said before, the farther you walk, the less time allowance you get.