Was Vinny Perrone of Local 804 Out Of Line If Allegations Are True?

[542thruNthru]

You must be drunk

Not yet, but I'll get there in a few hours.

 

[Whither]

Our industry is much different than most. We also are, lately a Industry that's exploding and unpredictable at the moment. Its easier said then done is what I'm saying and I'm sure her company isn't even quarter of the size of UPS.

National OT language will be extremely hard to do across the country.

Generally I agree. However, I think the 9.5 list already is a mechanism to sort those who want more than 45 hrs a week (e.g., let's say 2 days over 9.5 is roughly 20 hrs, which means the remaining 3 days would basically be 8s) from those who don't. I know plenty of fellow RPCDs who aren't on it, and some who are but don't file ever or for certain periods. But 'exploding and unpredictable at the moment' is nothing new in my center. I wouldn't have my job if drivers hadn't been filing on 9.5 -- they were in the weeds long before Covid. To hear the senior drivers discuss it, the center's been understaffed from time immemorial.

 

[Whither]

@542thruNthru The point is: I think we have to be careful about rationalizing the company's position because we also know they've been making record profits. And we know the company prefers to force OT over hiring new drivers to limit pension and insurance liabilities, and also prefers to underinvest in buildings and equipment to keep Wall Street happy.

 

[PASinterference]

When was a driver job at UPS not loaded with overtime?

When I started in 1990, a really bad day was getting off work at 1830. We started at 7am with a driver sort and load. Now we start at 915- 930 even though the preload is down at 8am. Our pos center manager starts us late just so we have to work late. Our center once led the district in service until we got stuck with the reject manager that nobody wants. My bad attitude toward management is well earned. You reap what you sow.

 

[542thruNthru]

Generally I agree. However, I think the 9.5 list already is a mechanism to sort those who want more than 45 hrs a week (e.g., let's say 2 days over 9.5 is roughly 20 hrs, which means the remaining 3 days would basically be 8s) from those who don't. I know plenty of fellow RPCDs who aren't on it, and some who are but don't file ever or for certain periods. But 'exploding and unpredictable at the moment' is nothing new in my center. I wouldn't have my job if drivers hadn't been filing on 9.5 -- they were in the weeds long before Covid. To hear the senior drivers discuss it, the center's been understaffed from time immemorial.

I think what we need is staffing language. Like in my rider we have utility/cover/tcd ratios that if we drop below the company has to hire people. Its like the 25% 22.4 language but in reverse.

Yes being on 9.5 means you want 45 hours or less but like was just said... He wants 50 but no more. Many people have a certain number and they don't get on 9.5 because of it but if they go over that they are pissed off. Too many people want too many different things is my opinion and thats where supplemental/riders/JC comes in but even then it's still a tough order to fill.

 

[Whither]

I think what we need is staffing language. Like in my rider we have utility/cover/tcd ratios that if we drop below the company has to hire people. Its like the 25% 22.4 language but in reverse.

Yes being on 9.5 means you want 45 hours or less but like was just said... He wants 50 but no more. Many people have a certain number and they don't get on 9.5 because of it but if they go over that they are pissed off. Too many people want too many different things is my opinion and thats where supplemental/riders/JC comes in but even then it's still a tough order to fill.

Well. UPS has been able to design a complex package handling and transportation system that juggles the many different levels of service shippers want concerning deliveries -- of course it's not perfect, but, hey, it's better than the USPS and FedEx. Would it be complicated to do the same re: OT (which ultimately is a staffing question)? No doubt. But we don't need to excuse the company from making reasonable efforts.

 

[burrheadd]

I think what we need is staffing language. Like in my rider we have utility/cover/tcd ratios that if we drop below the company has to hire people. Its like the 25% 22.4 language but in reverse.

Yes being on 9.5 means you want 45 hours or less but like was just said... He wants 50 but no more. Many people have a certain number and they don't get on 9.5 because of it but if they go over that they are pissed off. Too many people want too many different things is my opinion and thats where supplemental/riders/JC comes in but even then it's still a tough order to fill.

You can’t have it both ways either you want the overtime or you don’t

you can’t expect ups to cater to individual drivers

 

[542thruNthru]

You can’t have it both ways either you want the overtime or you don’t

you can’t expect ups to cater to individual drivers

Bingo! Yet that's what people want.

 

[Whither]

You can’t have it both ways either you want the overtime or you don’t

you can’t expect ups to cater to individual drivers

Why not? We cater to consignees and shippers all the time.

Also. I think biannual signups for the 9.5 list and actually having to file a grieve already cater to us: there might be periods when you want OT, others when you don't.

 

[Whither]

Bingo! Yet that's what people want.

I don't think you should ever criticize fellow working stiffs for wanting to have more control over their working conditions

 

[542thruNthru]

Why not? We cater to consignees and shippers all the time.

Also. I think biannual signups for the 9.5 list and actually having to file a grieve already cater to us: there might be periods when you want OT, others when you don't.

You're not serious about this sentence are you?

 

[Big Rigger]

I have spoken with the officials of our Local many times over the last quarter century and by far their biggest concern has been a membership unwilling participate by following the contract or enforcing the contract.

Leading by example is BY FAR the biggest concern the members have with their union leadership. There's little faith in any leadership today and less people have faith in the IBT "leadership" for the last 20+ years.
Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[Integrity]

Leading by example is BY FAR the biggest concern the members have with their union leadership. There's little faith in any leadership today and less people have faith in the IBT "leadership" for the last 20+ years.
Garbage in, garbage out.

I don’t share these concerns.

The Union operates as a representational democracy. Any member in good standing can hold office.

I recommend all those so dissatisfied should put together their campaign, run for election and then put your effort where your criticism is, and lead as they think leaders should lead.

IMO

Weak membership is what weakens leadership, not the other way around.

Weak membership is a blight to the UPS Teamsters.

 

[MenInBrown]

friend management!

 

[Integrity]

friend management!

The best way to do this is to be the best UPS Teamster that your work group has.

If you and every member in each work group strove to do this you would be seriously doing exactly what you posted.

 

[Wally]

When I started in 1990, a really bad day was getting off work at 1830. We started at 7am with a driver sort and load. Now we start at 915- 930 even though the preload is down at 8am. Our pos center manager starts us late just so we have to work late. Our center once led the district in service until we got stuck with the reject manager that nobody wants. My bad attitude toward management is well earned. You reap what you sow.

You started at 7 and it was still a 10 hour day.

I think a big part of the problem is not longer hours, but rather starting later, preload delay, causing drivers to get home that much later in the pm.

The preload delay has been a constant problem that no one in management seems to care about. Why is it happening?

 

[Integrity]

You started at 7 and it was still a 10 hour day.

I think a big part of the problem is not longer hours, but rather starting later, preload delay, causing drivers to get home that much later in the pm.

The preload delay has been a constant problem that no one in management seems to care about. Why is it happening?

I was a Preload Unload/ Sort Supervisor many years ago. I never could figure why we just didn’t have hard shift end times but better yet I thought 2 driver shifts would be a better solution.

I felt 2 driver shifts. 8:00AM-4:30PM and 12:00PM-8:30PM if done correctly would be able to handle daily variations and fix excessive OT issues.

 

[PASinterference]

You started at 7 and it was still a 10 hour day.

I think a big part of the problem is not longer hours, but rather starting later, preload delay, causing drivers to get home that much later in the pm.

The preload delay has been a constant problem that no one in management seems to care about. Why is it happening?

My center manager is sitting on the couch by 230 pm every day. Alot of it is screwing with drivers keeping them out late for no reason other than sick personal gratification. Things would change in a hurry if management had to stay until the last driver got in. When you interfere with THEIR family time, it becomes a problem. There would be no such thing as a 9.5 list anymore.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

My center manager is sitting on the couch by 230 pm every day. Alot of it is screwing with drivers keeping them out late for no reason other than sick personal gratification. Things would change in a hurry if management had to stay until the last driver got in. When you interfere with THEIR family time, it becomes a problem. There would be no such thing as a 9.5 list anymore.

That's the way it used to be here when I started. Supervisors had actually wear suit to work. You never had a bad Friday because nobody wanted to stay late

 

[burrheadd]

Why not? We cater to consignees and shippers all the time.

Also. I think biannual signups for the 9.5 list and actually having to file a grieve already cater to us: there might be periods when you want OT, others when you don't.

I stand by my statement
Either you want the overtime or you dont