What Can Brown Do For YOU!?


Tall Junior Member
I am 25 days green to UPS here in Texas I am an off the street permanent TCD driver (not seasonal) hire I went through the normal 5 days of safety training and DIAD board training before I was assigned to a center and was assigned a route This is my 4<SUP>th</SUP> week now and quite the learning experience with NEW DIAD board routs 87 (5 bulk stops) stops and 10 bulks pick ups The driver I replaced cost the center 100K by running a red light and totaling 4 cars (along with a section of chain link fence) so SAFETY has ALWAYS been the focus during my route By the way the center manager stated on my 2<SUP>nd</SUP> week Well the last driver scratched the route his first week... :eek: With countless miss loads and the center re assigning us all NEW zip codes etc Oh and for the first time in 20 years re doing ALL the hubs routes it has been a bit of a challenge to absorb everything and get in to some sort of a routine My numbers have not been ALL that great on paper but with as much time as I have had to spend in the rear of the truck due to all the loaded mistakes it makes ME look a bit bad on paper I have had little or no missed packages (unless you count all the miss loads) when the other day I was assigned a new larger truck (P40) I think Any way was in route to my airs and was overcome by diesel fumes partly due to 1 door being closed maybe or due to cold morning weather and this large panel in the floor around the shifter that was flying up on the highway. I called my on road supervisor and alerted him to the problem and I was asked if I could finish the day in the truck I replied with a hesitant NO He told me to contact the center manager to which I explained the SAME description of fumes and the condition of the truck I asked him if I needed to return to the hub or wait for another truck I sat for 35 min the center manager arrived soon after another truck arrived and brought me back to the hub to where I was fired for refusing to complete my route Any ideas on what (if any) chances I have to get my job back through HR? I did not sign anything and the union Stuart was shut down (verbally) by the center manager so it was a swift exit Its been 4 days now and I have heard nothing from HR to date


Well-Known Member
You probably will not hear anything from HR.
I would QUICKLY contact the Union Business Agent and explain the situation. A grievance must be filed in A TIMELY MANNER, within 10 days I believe.
You might also inquire of OSHA and/or DOT to see if there are any regulations regarding drivng, or being forced to drive, a vehicle that has exhaust fumes in the cab.
I think a good attorney would love to handle your case.
Good luck.
Don't wait foi the company to do anything....because they won't.


Tall Junior Member
Well a small problem I seem to be running in to is that I have not reached seniority as of yet (was only 3 day away) How would I find or contact a Union Business Agent? What would they be able to do for me?


Well-Known Member
Ask one of your fellow employees or the union steward. If no one knows (which I can't believe) check the phone book under "teamsters" or "labor unions".
You say you were terminated for refusing to do something unsafe (breathing carbon monoxide)? I would think there would be regulations preventing that (either DOT or OSHA), you acted in accordance with these regulations and you were fired? hmmm......I'm not an attorney (god, I wish I was) but common sense tells me the company screwed you.
File a frick'n grievance anyway, perhaps under an article pertaining to safety (which your steward or BA should help you with).
I would think safety would have a higher prioirity than seniority.
Posting on this board isn't doing you any good....I would get it in gear and contact the BA.
Doing nothing is not going to get you anywhere.


I Re Member

Unfortunately, none of the responders seem to be listening to you, not even when you spelled it out that you have not reached seniority.

The company can basically throw you away contractually for any reason they see fit until you get your seniority in and the union can not do anything for you.

You may have legal defenses that you could look into with an attorney, etc, but I am not qualified to help you there.

I don't know exactly how this went down or how you reacted with the Center Manager during your "termination", but if you haven't burned any bridges your best bet is to contact him and apologize for all misunderstandings involved in the termination.

If you were belligerent or defensively cocky or the company is just using this as an excuse/final straw to dump a pre-seniority employee that they feel is a potential future problem employee your recourse would be limited to whatever legal procedures an attorney could assist you with.

Again, until you have reached seniority you are not under the union's protection when push comes to shove with the company and even trying to use them will most likely reflect negatively on you at this point in your currently not existing career, sorry.:(


I Re Member
A qualification for seniority employees: This is not the way it should be handled if you are a seniority employee represented by the union.

Safety is the only reason you can use for disobeying a direct order, but you sure better be able to make a panel believe it was immediately endangering your's or the public's safety for refusing a direct order.


Well-Known Member
How would a normal person react during his termination...especially if he/she thinks they are getting screwed?
I know I would be all happy, cheery and huggy and would want to be around the people that just finished screwing me even more.


I Re Member
Well it always helps when you are being terminated, regardless of the reasons or scenario to be belligerent and scream, rant and rage and threaten them with a lawyer.

Or use the tactic where you act like they are morons and you are sooooo far above them. Look down your nose at them if possible and act like the job means nothing and you are bored with their inane stupidity and will soon teach them a lesson.

Both work real well in getting your job back then or later. :cool:

I hate having to spell this out, but the ones I have to do so for are the same ones that are most likely to use one of these methods and wouldn't get the sarcasm if it cut off their heads.

In truth, regardless of the reason you might find yourself in a termination scenario the intelligent adult will fume internally, but will attempt to handle the situation with reason and NOT turn it personal (even if it already is) as that is the last thing you should do if you would prefer to keep or get your job back.


Tall Junior Member

Well the center manager through out the building is not known for his kindness and understanding never less I was quite surprised that I was sitting in front of him and a union Stuart (from the mechanics shop) being asked if I wanted my termination letter to read that I quit voluntarily or was terminated I am 40 divorced with two children and have never worked so hard or eaten more pride than going through the first 3 weeks at my hub I reacted with surprise never raised my voice was a little dumfounded but would not sign any paperwork until I had had a chance to speak with HR first This for sure did not put a smile on his face... I found the job (on Friday at 12:01 am) when the direct deposit went through to make up for ANY shot comings I may have encountered during the week I was consistently surrounded by a great group of people and on road supervisors that seemed to have a vested interest that I know all the rules abide by ALL the safety procedures and have an ongoing and prosperous future at UPS I was praised on many occasions of my improvement and time saving tactics I always had a can do attitude and met every day fresh and optimistic that things where starting to get easier and fall in to place (until I went in to the Up Town Managers office that is) it seemed I could never win in that office...


I Re Member
Well, I would again say your best bet would be to go see this center manager and ask if there is anything you can do to keep the job and that there was certainly a communication problem and misunderstanding on your part.

Realize, I am not saying you were in the wrong at all, but none of that will matter with your lack of standing seniority wise.

If that doesn't work you pretty much are through.

That would not stop me from doing everything in my power to make the SOB's life a little more complicated if he cost you your job.

The rest of this is more likely to make the SOB's life more interesting than actually get you your job back, but I would certainly try them all failing the first suggestion.

Seek legal council (labor attorney).

I would contact the union and state that you were terminated for the purpose of evading this Agreement, with this Agreement being the Contract.

It's weak, but it can possibly be used to involve the union in your defense.

I would also call UPS Corporate and OSHA regarding your termination over a saftey problem.


From the promised LAND
OK is giving you solid advice. Make sure what you are feeling is reality. IF you were let go for no reason, then take the appropriate measures. I have seen people let go within the first 30 days for no reason, just because they can. But these days, by the time you start, UPS has a vested intrest in seeing to it you make the cut.

So find out the truth as to why you were let go. And if it was something you did wrong, then deal with it. But if in fact you were let go for no reason, follow OK's recomendation. and do seek out a labor lawyer. one you can trust.



Think about this....

In our center, it is a typical practice to let someone who has repeatdly went over plan almost everyday or whatever to let them find a way to get fired before their 30 days is up. I am not saying you did anything wrong at all, it is just typical practice at a lot of centers in our district to let someone go who is "not working up to par" before they get seniority, because then the company is stuck with what they consider an underproducer. Again, I am not saying that is what happened in this case, but that is what happens in a lot of case


Well-Known Member
OK-Correct me if I'm wrong but if you are under 30 days you are still considered an at will employee which means UPS can let you go for whatever reason they want.


Well-Known Member
I guess since you were an off the street hire, they won't cut you any breaks. If you started at UPS as a part-timer, you probably would still have job (friend/T or maybe P/T). Because they would at least know all about you, and you would be in the union as a part-timer. I think if you go from P/T to friend/T and if you haven't reached friend/T senority, and management doesn't want you to drive, they can demote back to P/T. Then you should have a job as a part-timer. And maybe have a chance again the future for friend/T job. I am not sure, but I think this is how it goes. Maybe try working P/T at UPS if you can't get your job back. I know some part-timers who got fired or quit and then months later they come back.


I Re Member
Ok, you are wrong!

Wily, you simply cannot give me that line (Correct me if I'm wrong), I cannot resist it, I simply cannot resist it. :D:D:D:p

In reality, you are close, but not quite right.

I can only speak for the Central Supplement as UPS has made a fetish of having different rules and policies abound throughout the United States.

In the Central Supplement the exception is "provided however, that the Employer may not discharge or discipline for the purpose of evading this Agreement or discriminating against union members."

Which is why I urged this new employee to seek resolution with the center manager that terminated him first.

If the terminating center manager will not change the status of this termination his chances of getting the center manager overruled by someone higher up in the company is almost nil regardless of whether his firing was appropriate or not.

As the employee was terminated for refusing to operate an unsafe vehicle (by his words) which would be a violation of Article 18, Section 1 of the National Master Agreement (and additional supplemental language) the exception in the Contract that I have quoted "discharge for the purpose of evading this Agreement" could be construed in this case to be active and pertaining.

In reality, because of the pre-seniority terminology that the company can terminate for pretty much a whim if they so desire he could win his job back for being terminated improperly (the specific reason) and the company could turn around and then release him (terminate him) for pretty much any innocuous reason that they wanted to.

This is why I set this and the other recourses as more of a way to make his terminator's life more interesting, rather than routes to recover his job.

Basically, if he cannot convince the center manager that terminated him to bring him back it's over.
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