When Is G-Day?
- Thread starter MrFedEx
- Start date
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
Staying with a sinking ship when one has a lifeboat available isn't brave, it is outright stupid.
I may be many things - stupid isn't one of them...
Just because you won't look for alternatives for yourself, doesn't mean that others should join you in your holding out till you are all forced into working for minimums or retire early - while seeing your real compensation steadily erode each year while doing so.
That isn't "fighting the good fight" - it is denying the inevitable.
If you think you are serving some higher purpose by staying at Express and being subjected to everything you have stated on this forum - you are either a masochist or severely deluded.
The one thing I do appreciate about your presence here is that it allows me to set up an argument as what NOT to do with one's life. It saves me the effort of having to set up a strawman argument. Your biggest obstacle in life hasn't been Express - it has been your own decision making skills. Thankfully, you're the only one who has to pay the consequences of those decisions you have made.
Put frankly, your "master plan" of holding out for as long as you can bear, then heading away to some foreign land to find yourself a woman that has it worse off than you've had it over the past 15 years, then spending the remainder of your life doing to her what you've lamented that Fred has done to you - is outright pathetic.
To the readers of this forum - you can allow yourself to go down the path that "vantexan" has allowed himself to follow, or you can realize the inevitable and do something about it. If you are in your 20's or 30's, you have time to reorientate your "career" prospects and look for something in which you can call a career instead of just a job.
The reality of the situation in Express realistically precludes certifying union representation and putting a stop to the takeaways. You should sign a union representation card if for nothing else than casting a personal vote against the deteriorating situation in Express. There aren't enough that do realize that Express is heading down the tubes (for the employee) to change the direction things are going, so signing a union rep card will be more symbolic than anything else at this point.
In the meantime, you should spend some time each day looking for other options, creating a resume and obtaining skill training in something that has a current demand. Take a look at the postings in Monster dot com, to get an idea of what is out there and what skills are desired by employers - then do what you can to obtain those skills.
Apply for jobs that you wouldn't really want to take - if for nothing else to gain experience in the interview process to better prepare yourself for interviews with employers you really would want to have a career with. I went to many interviews with companies I had no real intention of accepting a job offer from - just to sharpen my "interviewee" skills.
If you are fulltime, you may want to consider dropping down to part-time when a position opens, to allow yourself the opportunity to obtain the needed skills to switch jobs and place yourself into a career which you can be happy with. It is virtually impossible to find other employment when one is working full time. It is often better to take a temporary step backwards, to enable one to take two steps forward. As long as you stay with Express - you are going nowhere. You may be paying your bills now, but a rational person couldn't want to spend their life getting less and less each year, then find themself forced into working less than full time when their employer has fully implemented their vision of a majority part-time wage workforce.
Years ago, Express used to be a company which someone could accept a job with - then turn that into a career if they so chose. That isn't the case anymore. FedEx is already converting what used to be working class careers, into working class jobs with no prospects of either a middle class standard of living, or advancement into a salaried position that is worth having.
You can choose the path that "vantexan" has, you can start looking for something that you can call a career - or you can pin your hopes on having enough of your co-workers sign union cards and returning Express into a career option instead of just a job to pay bills and keep your family fed. While the latter option is noble, it is unrealistic.
Yes except for one little thing, as Bill Clinton used to say, it's the economy stupid! I'm not expecting one person here to spend the rest of his working life at FedEx if he doesn't want to. But where is he going to go in this economy? Jobs that pay well are few and far between and there are millions looking for them. It's my contention that you don't care about the average FedEx employee. You just see him as a way to stick it to FedEx.
As for my personal plans, millions of Americans have already moved overseas. Turns out that there are plenty of places where one can be pretty comfortable, and perfectly safe, on a lot less than it takes to live in the States. With modern technology they stay connected, even enjoy American tv and the latest Hollywood films in English.
And it turns out that young ladies in many of these countries will gladly marry an older American man. And gladly produce children with love, something extremely important to them. If you can't wrap your brain around that it's because you've been conditioned to believe in our youth oriented culture that older guys who don't have money are worthless castoffs, and that sex should be between two young people at their hottest. Thankfully much of the world reveres older people and their experience.
In the U.S. try buying a home in a beautiful area without paying a huge amount. The U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on beauty, and certainly not on excellent climate. One can live in stunning locales with springlike weather year round in numerous places for 50-70% less than what it would cost in places like San Diego.
So yeah, if you've got an income such as a pension or Social Security you can stay in the States and bag groceries or greet people at Walmart, or you can make an investment with a guaranteed great return by moving out of the States. Ricochet1a has a point though. You need to get into something that will provide enough income in retirement for you to do this. The FedEx cash balance plan might, along with Social Security, provide enough but if you can wrangle a traditional pension somewhere else go for it. It's highly unlikely that the vast majority of FedEx employees will be able to leave and find better paying jobs with a good retirement unless they get on with UPS. The marketplace for employees has changed, and I won't fill you with false hope. Moving overseas is one of the very few avenues left to have a retirement with dignity. I'm glad that Ricochet1a is on here, because he demonstrates the willful ignorance on a subject that will keep him from truly enjoying his life. The American dream of owning a nice home in a nice area with a couple of nice cars in the garage is fine if you want your life to be about what you have. If you want it to be about what you experience, positive experiences, consider living abroad. To work yourself into the ground making someone else wealthy while you struggle is my view of masochism.
As for my personal plans, millions of Americans have already moved overseas. Turns out that there are plenty of places where one can be pretty comfortable, and perfectly safe, on a lot less than it takes to live in the States. With modern technology they stay connected, even enjoy American tv and the latest Hollywood films in English.
And it turns out that young ladies in many of these countries will gladly marry an older American man. And gladly produce children with love, something extremely important to them. If you can't wrap your brain around that it's because you've been conditioned to believe in our youth oriented culture that older guys who don't have money are worthless castoffs, and that sex should be between two young people at their hottest. Thankfully much of the world reveres older people and their experience.
In the U.S. try buying a home in a beautiful area without paying a huge amount. The U.S. doesn't have a monopoly on beauty, and certainly not on excellent climate. One can live in stunning locales with springlike weather year round in numerous places for 50-70% less than what it would cost in places like San Diego.
So yeah, if you've got an income such as a pension or Social Security you can stay in the States and bag groceries or greet people at Walmart, or you can make an investment with a guaranteed great return by moving out of the States. Ricochet1a has a point though. You need to get into something that will provide enough income in retirement for you to do this. The FedEx cash balance plan might, along with Social Security, provide enough but if you can wrangle a traditional pension somewhere else go for it. It's highly unlikely that the vast majority of FedEx employees will be able to leave and find better paying jobs with a good retirement unless they get on with UPS. The marketplace for employees has changed, and I won't fill you with false hope. Moving overseas is one of the very few avenues left to have a retirement with dignity. I'm glad that Ricochet1a is on here, because he demonstrates the willful ignorance on a subject that will keep him from truly enjoying his life. The American dream of owning a nice home in a nice area with a couple of nice cars in the garage is fine if you want your life to be about what you have. If you want it to be about what you experience, positive experiences, consider living abroad. To work yourself into the ground making someone else wealthy while you struggle is my view of masochism.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
You aren't going to get an experienced driver in most cases for what Ground pays.
I have six of them.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
That's great, but I don't think that's commonplace. Most of the Ground people I encounter lack experience.
But how long does it take to do what we do and be considered experienced? We are so used to having "reasonable pay" with benefits I think we forget how tough many people truly have it. Try making it on $8hr with few if any benefits. If a Ground driver was making $8hr but now can get by easier on $15hr he probably thinks he's got it alot better than some. It would suck for us, being used to better, but alot of people would jump at the chance. FedEx knows this and exploits this. Same logic as paying the lowest payscale in very nice, expensive areas. They know there are plenty of people who'll take anything for the chance to live in those places. I've tried it and found nothing ruins living in a nice place faster than working for FedEx. I wonder about the turnover at Ground. Is it a more relaxed atmosphere than Express thus keeping people relatively happy? Or are people leaving because $15hr isn't worth what they go through? If they aren't handling haz or international, not worrying about passing physicals or waiting on late freight, it might be worth it to many. If I was 40 with a military pension then driving for Ground sounds like a good supplement. If I stay in the States then I'll live in a motorhome on some remote land, drive for Ground to supplement my pension. Beats flipping burgers.
There's always stress but if you aren't getting paid by the hour then the pressure is off to make commit times. Should be able to take lunch when you want as opposed to the 1630 to as late as 1720 lunch start with only a half hour I'm getting now. If you are well groomed, have a clean uniform, and the deliveries get done how much more can there be to it? They don't even help with the sort. Compared to Express that's pretty relaxed.
Very stressful for the first year or so. Route knowledge being the toughest to master. While there are no commit times, most routes have enough work for 9 to 10 hours so if a driver gets lost for the first couple hours' alot of packages are in danger of not being delivered. Once a route is known, it's just a matter of doing it. Some days are routine, some are real nut crunchers. Some routes are just plain busy every single day but most of those are usually run by former contractors. As far as turnover, I haven't had alot. My longest employee has been with me for 8 years and 8 have a former contractor who has been with the company for 16 years. I hiredone of the temp drivers right after Christmas and have been bringing him along slowly on his route. All my other drivers have been with me or the company for at least 4 years.
What I don't get is this: Why would friend Smith want to mess with the core group (Express drivers) that's responsible for the bulk of the company's revenue? If anything, I would think if the volume dropped off for Express wouldn't they try and fill the gap with non-priority freight from Ground or HD? If I am correct isn't anyone besides Express a contractor? A hired gun if you will. I read about new Ground Terminals opening what seems like every few months. It seems to me (as an outsider) that Fedex is trying and succeeding to expand their ground service. I just don't get that they would need to funnel express packages to Ground drivers who seem (In my area anyway) pretty busy with new accounts that we used to have.
What am I missing? Fedex's goal is to have only contract drivers doing their routes in the future? or the downsizing of Express drivers? I would think it would be easier to terminate a contractor than fire an express driver?
What am I missing? Fedex's goal is to have only contract drivers doing their routes in the future? or the downsizing of Express drivers? I would think it would be easier to terminate a contractor than fire an express driver?
Some pretty good explanations in other threads. By shifting as much to Ground as possible they eliminate Express overtime. Since Ground drivers are paid less with no overtime or other benefits the profit margin is considerably higher per pkg than those shipped through Express. There's a need for Express service, but alot of freight just needs to get delivered in a reasonable time rather than pay the much higher cost of overnight or even 2 or 3 day. So less Express, more Ground, means higher profits for the corporation. And based on their actions it appears the company feels they can mess with us, within reason, if it increases profit. That's within reason to them, obviously employees feel differently about it.
dvalleyjim
Well-Known Member
Yep my drivers tend to stay 5-7yrs. The problem at ground is getting new drivers approved. I use to be able to hire my own drivers and train them, now Fedex has to approve my drivers before I can hire them. Pretty much leaves out loaders who want to got to driver positions since they would have to have driving experience in the same industry in the same truck. Also this experience has to be within the last 6 mos.
As far as contracting, drivers no longer have a chance to move into contracting positions. Now adays you have to have 75-100g to buy a route (how you ever pay that pack I don't know, I guess you don't make any money). The only route movements are those being bought up by the big entrepenuers who own multiple routes.
Not much room for growth for a ground driver nowadays.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
This all begs many questions....
1) How does FedEx intend to continue with the charade of "independent" business owners, when it dictates who those owners may hire and not?
2) If new drivers need to have actual driving experience in the last 6 months (that rules out the long term unemployed applying for jobs) - who does FedEx think will apply for these jobs?
I can't imagine anyone with any sort of driving experience (that has NOT been long term unemployed) that would put up with the conditions and pay being offered in Ground.
I have received accounts (2nd and 3rd hand though) regarding the current antics of FedEx when it comes to increasing their control over Ground operators. Many old time drivers are simply saying enough and leaving - they won't be run like employees of FedEx when they aren't receiving the pay or benefits that are associated with being a FedEx employee.
I have also heard that in areas where routes need to be added, that Ground is merely "handing them out" to existing contractors without requiring any form of payment for that additional route. Likewise, they are terminating contractors or banning individual drivers from working for contractors for any little reason they can cook up to eliminate troublesome drivers/contractors.
Part of the hook of Ground, is that the contract has a lease clause in it (contractors own the equipment, but part of their payment scheme is through a "lease" agreement with Ground leasing the vehicle to be used). This allows Ground to exert control over the vehicle (condition, maintenance, logos) that otherwise they would have no ability to exert any control over.
For those that are interested, look to how the regional airlines work their ownership/control issues - it is where FedEx got the idea in the first place. That arrangement is also being looked at by the Feds - due to the inherent misrepresentation that goes on when a passenger purchases a fare on an airline and makes part of their journey on one of the regional airlines that have the look and impression of flying on the major carrier. They aren't getting exactly what they think they are getting (in terms of safety, aircrew experience and assignment of liabiilty) when they fly on one of these little aircraft.
Express hires new Couriers off the street without so much as a day of driving experience. Part of the "hook" for Express Handlers is that if they put their time in position, they can make an internal application for a Courier position and get it (unless they can't pass the physical or have driving record issues). They've already passed all the background checks, so there is nothing else holding them back.
3) What is the average turnover rate for Ground Handlers?
Since they are precluded from becoming a driver (clever little trick FedEx played...) due to the need to have recent driving experience, they are caught in a Catch 22 (classic FedEx style). As long as they work as handlers, they can't ever drive a truck (under this scheme).
So what is holding them in place?
Both Express and UPS have the ability to keep handler turnover managable due to the real prospects for their being able to eventually drive for their respective companies. Many stick it out as a handler, just to have a shot of getting into a driving position.
4) Part of FedEx's propaganda regarding the contractor model was that drivers could own their own route and build their own business. This obviously is going out the window with the conversion to a "service provider" model. So, how does FedEx continue to boast that the drivers are "independent" and not employees of FedEx - when they no longer have a chance in hell of owning the route they are operating?
The whole ISP model has the smell of a "franchise" system. However there is a significant difference - a franchise operator only receives guidance regarding the operation of their business (how to present the brand, the service/product offered, etc.) - they are not instructed as to who they can and cannot hire.
Everyone knows why FedEx is using the system they are using - to keep Ground union free and maintain an inherent cost advantage over UPS due solely to one factor, its undercompensated labor force. The question is: Just how far will FedEx push in its obsessive desire for control, while being able to stay just within the gray area of labor and business contract law?
If ever you read an ISP agreement you will find that "degree of control" are areas broken down and paid for. Remember that although there are criteria set out to classify a contracto rather than employee, not all those criteria need to be met. So Fedex can determine which areas they want to have more control in and still satisfy the law.
So basically FedEx didn't have it right the first time around, got spanked, then developed a new system that satisfies the courts, and appears to be now realizing the profits that they figured to obtain if they could control labor costs. And it's working so well that they are now trying to reduce the impact Express has on profits by taking away as much as possible and giving the work to Ground. Which begs the question if they shift too much too fast will there be layoffs at Express? Or will the reduction in hours due to lack of work cause enough employees to quit? Our director in a meeting last week said that our station was averaging 300 less pkgs a day compated to last year and yet they were still giving us raises because they were committed to taking care of their people. Wanted to shout out several things, from lousy raises in the last few years, giving mid-range employees smaller raises than those who already make much more, and terminating our pension plan. This is what we have to look forward to, having our work taken away then being told how generous they are to give us any raise as if we were the reason that freight went away. Which seems to be setting us up for a possible future of no raises, or layoffs, because WE are underperforming. It's all smoke and mirrors, and if you are new to the company you might as well get used to the fact that Express is no longer about just coming to work and doing your job. This dog-and-pony show will always be in the background and it's becoming more evident every day.
