Why are the negotiations so private?

[Tony Q]

As it should be here, as we certainly can't have nearly 300,000 people at the Negotiating Table.

Problem as I see it is that 70% of UPSers that chose to vote in the last General Election, didn't vote for those who are at the table???

Yeah but they got their new Teamsters United guy Sean there. He will make it all right, right?

 

[Box Ox]

the only gripe I have to date in these UPS negotiations, is that we didn't get a detailed explaination as to why we were asked to give "The Committee" strike authorization.

Because the Union already knows it’s buying that “car” and for what general price. Just needs to convince the “wife” that it drove a hard bargain for it.

 

[Fenris]

Where is this initial proposal?

IBT MASTER PROPOSAL -

 

[2old2load]

Good analogy. I understand your point and respect your view, but I’d just like to know what we “the union” brought to the table to begin with. If we don’t know that how do we judge what’s being offered from the company? How would you judge the contract if you didn’t know the starting point and just the ending?

 

[2old2load]

IBT MASTER PROPOSAL -

Thanks!

 

[Tony Q]

Because the Union already knows it’s buying that “car” and for what general price. Just needs to convince the “wife” that it drove a hard bargain for it.

That is pretty funny. He had a very good analogy, in my opinion. Most people that come to a site like this will never actually negotiate a Union contract. His explanation was pretty good for the layman. A lot of people don't know what a white paper contract is, including some that sit in on these UPS negotiations. You need to keep certain issues off the shop floor. This works for small bars and big barns. With the presence of social media its hard to negotiate anything. There is so much misinformation. The IBT needs to get with the times, in my opinion and think of a better way to relay information to the members. I can say with certainty that the whole UPS Rising experiment was a loser.

 

[Tony Q]

Good analogy. I understand your point and respect your view, but I’d just like to know what we “the union” brought to the table to begin with. If we don’t know that how do we judge what’s being offered from the company? How would you judge the contract if you didn’t know the starting point and just the ending?

IBT MASTER PROPOSAL -

 

[Box Ox]

Most people that come to a site like this will never actually negotiate a Union contract.

I certainly wouldn’t want to have a Union contract negotiation on my professional record given the way the end products seem to be on a downward trend these days. Fortunately, some of our highest level guys are older and will be just fine regardless of the outcome.

A lot of people don't know what a white paper contract is, including some that sit in on these UPS negotiations. You need to keep certain issues off the shop floor.

Hope the issues kept off the floor are picked back up and fought for at some point.

With the presence of social media its hard to negotiate anything. There is so much misinformation.

Would the negotiators maybe do better if that darned UPS Rising page didn’t exist?

 

[DOK]

Just an FYI, the number one proposal was to fix the Part-Time wages. Particularly the Starting wage. Once we do this, others will not be happy. You can never please everyone.

Who proposed this, the Company or the Union?

Good question.

 

[2old2load]

I believe the last contract was the worst one I’ve experienced. I think a little transparency would be good for leverage and negotiations. I’m not saying pull the sheets off of them in the act. Just would like to know a few details.

 

[eats packages]

Here's my take, for what it's worth???....and in order to make my point I will use a recent life scenario as an analogy.

My wife accompanied me to test drive a used vehicle at a dealership last weekend, a car we were considering for a third vehicle, as my oldest daughter just got her temps and needed a smaller vehicle to learn on and eventually drive when she gets her license.

On the way there, I told my wife to please walk away anytime the sales people and I started talking price or terms, if the test drive went well.

She agreed, knowing that she tends to be a bit impetuous, and myself being a better "negotiator".

This system worked for us, because we discussed what we wanted in this car going in.....for this analogy, let's call these needs "proposals".

Turned out this vehicle was everything we were looking for in regards to our "proposals", with the price being initially too high, but eventually "negotiated" to an acceptable number, although there were a few minor mechanical issues that needed to be addressed.

When the dealership and myself could not come to an agreement on the necessary repairs, I decided to walk.....which is an "impass".

This is when I owed it to my wife a detailed explain of my position, accompanied by her agreeing or disagreeing that we should walk....the equivalent of a "strike vote".

Eventually, with my wife's blessing (ratified strike vote), we left and went home.
Ultimately, the dealership called us back and met all but one of my conditions, to which I considered "reasonable".....which is a "tentative agreement".

I then took this "tentative agreement" to my wife for her approval as well.....(a "bargaining unit vote").

When she gave her approval, we had a deal....a "ratified contract".

In the end, had I (the negotiator) included my wife (the bargaining unit) in every aspect of this process, she would have likely fell victim to many of the dealership's (the Company) various sales ploys, misdirection, and innuendo, severely compromising "the deal".

But as it turned out, our system earned us a better deal.

It's never good to have "too many cooks in the kitchen".


Btw, the only gripe I have to date in these UPS negotiations, is that we didn't get a detailed explaination as to why we were asked to give "The Committee" strike authorization.

The IBT simply has not earned this type of carte blanche consideration in any other recent UPS negotiations, but they got it anyway.....I certainly hope they don't make us sorry, again.

With this in mind, I will wait for a "tentative agreement" before I draw any conclusions or pimp a no vote.

Perfect. Since we all know the simple act of walking into a car lot means you are going to get hosed with bad deals.

Here's a better example: I bought a used car on craigslist...

 

[Bubblehead]

Just an FYI, the number one proposal was to fix the Part-Time wages.

Who proposed this, the Company or the Union?

Actually it was the number one proposal amongst the members from all four regions. It made me scratch my head.

Would it not have been prudent to wait until the Company proposed that, seeing that they can't staff their sorts as a result of substandard wages?

SMH

 

[Bubblehead]

Perfect. Since we all know the simple act of walking into a car lot means you are going to get hosed with bad deals.

Here's a better example: I bought a used car on craigslist...

It was an analogy, but if it makes you feel better and makes it work in your head, insert Craiglist instead of dealer?

See, we just negotiated something that may not have been possible with a room full of too many people...

 

[Richard Cranium]

Here's my take, for what it's worth???....and in order to make my point I will use a recent life scenario as an analogy.

My wife accompanied me to test drive a used vehicle at a dealership last weekend, a car we were considering for a third vehicle, as my oldest daughter just got her temps and needed a smaller vehicle to learn on and eventually drive when she gets her license.

On the way there, I told my wife to please walk away anytime the sales people and I started talking price or terms, if the test drive went well.

She agreed, knowing that she tends to be a bit impetuous, and myself being a better "negotiator".

This system worked for us, because we discussed what we wanted in this car going in.....for this analogy, let's call these needs "proposals".

Turned out this vehicle was everything we were looking for in regards to our "proposals", with the price being initially too high, but eventually "negotiated" to an acceptable number, although there were a few minor mechanical issues that needed to be addressed.

When the dealership and myself could not come to an agreement on the necessary repairs, I decided to walk.....which is an "impass".

This is when I owed it to my wife a detailed explain of my position, accompanied by her agreeing or disagreeing that we should walk....the equivalent of a "strike vote".

Eventually, with my wife's blessing (ratified strike vote), we left and went home.
Ultimately, the dealership called us back and met all but one of my conditions, to which I considered "reasonable".....which is a "tentative agreement".

I then took this "tentative agreement" to my wife for her approval as well.....(a "bargaining unit vote").

When she gave her approval, we had a deal....a "ratified contract".

In the end, had I (the negotiator) included my wife (the bargaining unit) in every aspect of this process, she would have likely fell victim to many of the dealership's (the Company) various sales ploys, misdirection, and innuendo, severely compromising "the deal".

But as it turned out, our system earned us a better deal.

It's never good to have "too many cooks in the kitchen".


Btw, the only gripe I have to date in these UPS negotiations, is that we didn't get a detailed explaination as to why we were asked to give "The Committee" strike authorization.

The IBT simply has not earned this type of carte blanche consideration in any other recent UPS negotiations, but they got it anyway.....I certainly hope they don't make us sorry, again.

With this in mind, I will wait for a "tentative agreement" before I draw any conclusions or pimp a no vote.

Hopefully it was American made with this drawn out story.

 

[PT Car Washer]

Would it not have been prudent to wait until the Company proposed that, seeing that they can't staff their sorts as a result of substandard wages?

SMH

Especially since $15/hr most likely will be the new minimum wage before the next contract expires.

 

[Box Ox]

See, we just negotiated something that may not have been possible with a room full of too many people...

Hope whatever’s going on right now is a negotiation and not a “negotiation.”

 

[Staydryitsraining]

Just an FYI, the number one proposal was to fix the Part-Time wages. Particularly the Starting wage. Once we do this, others will not be happy. You can never please everyone.

Anyone with a pulse knows the company had to raise wages, little too no effort would be needed by the union for that.

 

[Inthegame]

Anyone with a pulse knows the company had to raise wages, little too no effort would be needed by the union for that.

It's not a matter of effort, it's a matter of priority. Everyone with a pulse knew pt starting wage was too low in 2013. That didn't stop UPS from sticking to their ridiculously low pt wage offer then and accept the constant turnover vs higher wage/benefit costs.

 

[Staydryitsraining]

It's not a matter of effort, it's a matter of priority. Everyone with a pulse knew pt starting wage was too low in 2013. That didn't stop UPS from sticking to their ridiculously low pt wage offer then and accept the constant turnover vs higher wage/benefit costs.

I was around in 2013 also. Whats going on now with not being able to staff a preload was not this bad then. Also not being able to staff because of low pay isnt a union issue, its the companies.

 

[bowhnterdon]

Anyone with a pulse knows the company had to raise wages, little too no effort would be needed by the union for that.

Exactly. Minimum wage laws would have taken care of that without the Teamsters.What about fixing the Pension debacle? No money in fixing that.We have not had an increase in over 25 years...