Why collective bargaining?

[Overpaid Union Thug]

As I stated earlier the dems are letting us down. The republicans are down right attacking us. Busting unions has become part of their platform. There are to many facts to back that up

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At least the republicans are honest in that regard.

What union(s) were busted strictly by legislation AND without any input or participation by the employees?

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[Brown Spider]

At least the republicans are honest in that regard.

What union(s) were busted strictly by legislation AND without any input or participation by the employees?

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The unyielding attack on Unions is much bigger than you would like to believe. It doesn't matter if those attacks come through legislation, through the National Right To Work Committee or through the many law firms that specialize in Union Avoidance. Take a look at Jackson & Lewis for a good look at how devious those firms are. Again, it just doesn't matter what hat the scabs, Republicans or union avoidance lawyers are wearing...they're out to destroy us and turning the other cheek isn't working.

A member of a bargaining unit in a RTW state who chooses not to join the union is justifiably ostracized because he or she is a financial burden on the Union and all of it's members. They're not refusing to accept the wages and benefits provided by the Union. They're insisting on representation when they have an issue with the employer. And they expect their Union co-workers to foot the bill for these benefits.

Attacking public sector unions is the last thing we should be doing right now. Suggesting that teachers should not even be entitled to union representation is beyond the pale. Those unions are a lot bigger than we are and their membership is active. AFSCME? NEA? AFT? The constant attacks against us will not be overcome by attacking other union members. We need, now more than ever, to stick together. If your local union is not responding to your needs...what you need is better local union leadership, not a union free workplace. Over the years, our leaders and our rank & file membership have stood up to countless obstacles and refused to back down. It may be time for all of us to consider the obstacles that we're facing right now and stop turning the other cheek to those obstacles. A RTW scab is not a petty annoyance...he's the tip of the iceberg that is heading right for all of us!

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

RTW is nearly inconsequential in our state. Obamacare on the other hand is taking a toll on working folks. Union workers need to stop allowing themselves to be used as marters to the Democrat party. While you've been ordered to stomp around mad about right-to-work the Democrats have screwed your health care up, divided our country, flooded the workforce with low-wage immigrant workers & placed unions in the weakest position we've been in for decades etc etc. Wise up.

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Teach me smurf, make me wise. Tell us all about the republican position on collective bargaining? Im willing to listen. Im not talking Eisenhower either?

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Are you a union member?

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[Overpaid Union Thug]

The unyielding attack on Unions is much bigger than you would like to believe. It doesn't matter if those attacks come through legislation, through the National Right To Work Committee or through the many law firms that specialize in Union Avoidance. Take a look at Jackson & Lewis for a good look at how devious those firms are. Again, it just doesn't matter what hat the scabs, Republicans or union avoidance lawyers are wearing...they're out to destroy us and turning the other cheek isn't working.

It's all on us. All of their legislation, attempt at legislation, and union busting attorneys doesn't mean squat if we as employees want a union. Earlier I asked for an example(s) of when a union(s) was busted strictly by an outside entity without any participation on the part of the employees. Meaning.....I want to know what unions have been busted whether the employees wanted it busted or not. No one answered. And thats probably because it's never happened.

A member of a bargaining unit in a RTW state who chooses not to join the union is justifiably ostracized because he or she is a financial burden on the Union and all of it's members. They're not refusing to accept the wages and benefits provided by the Union. They're insisting on representation when they have an issue with the employer. And they expect their Union co-workers to foot the bill for these benefits.

Agreed. But I must question the part about them being a financial burden. Have any locals folded or not been able to represent their members due to there being too many scabs? I know down here in my RTW state it hasn't happened in my local.

Attacking public sector unions is the last thing we should be doing right now. Suggesting that teachers should not even be entitled to union representation is beyond the pale. Those unions are a lot bigger than we are and their membership is active. AFSCME? NEA? AFT? The constant attacks against us will not be overcome by attacking other union members. We need, now more than ever, to stick together. If your local union is not responding to your needs...what you need is better local union leadership, not a union free workplace. Over the years, our leaders and our rank & file membership have stood up to countless obstacles and refused to back down. It may be time for all of us to consider the obstacles that we're facing right now and stop turning the other cheek to those obstacles. A RTW scab is not a petty annoyance...he's the tip of the iceberg that is heading right for all of us!

Unions don't belong in schools. They are counterproductive to our kids's educations. Not to mention dangerous. How many horrible teachers and pedophiles have unions allowed to stay on at schools when logic dictates that they should be fired. In many teachers unions it's near impossible to fire teachers that clearly deserve it. Why would we not protect the kids from these people?

Having unions in certain government jobs is debatable too. In my opinion unions shouldn't be allowed near military bases or anything else involved with national defense if there is the potential for strikes or other union activity to disrupt base operations. That would primarily be DOD installations and their civilian counterparts. I don't think anyone in their right minds should have a problem with that.

My main point, again, is that none of these attacks on unions matter if we, like you said, stick together. Until politicians (and others that attack unions) can bypass the will of the employees and unilaterally bust unions with the stroke of the pen there is nothing to worry about. Until then all of the lawyering up and irrelevant legislation means squat to the big picture.

 

[Brown Spider]

It's all on us. All of their legislation, attempt at legislation, and union busting attorneys doesn't mean squat if we as employees want a union. Earlier I asked for an example(s) of when a union(s) was busted strictly by an outside entity without any participation on the part of the employees. Meaning.....I want to know what unions have been busted whether the employees wanted it busted or not. No one answered. And thats probably because it's never happened.



Agreed. But I must question the part about them being a financial burden. Have any locals folded or not been able to represent their members due to there being too many scabs? I know down here in my RTW state it hasn't happened in my local.



Unions don't belong in schools. They are counterproductive to our kids's educations. Not to mention dangerous. How many horrible teachers and pedophiles have unions allowed to stay on at schools when logic dictates that they should be fired. In many teachers unions it's near impossible to fire teachers that clearly deserve it. Why would we not protect the kids from these people?

Having unions in certain government jobs is debatable too. In my opinion unions shouldn't be allowed near military bases or anything else involved with national defense if there is the potential for strikes or other union activity to disrupt base operations. That would primarily be DOD installations and their civilian counterparts. I don't think anyone in their right minds should have a problem with that.

My main point, again, is that none of these attacks on unions matter if we, like you said, stick together. Until politicians (and others that attack unions) can bypass the will of the employees and unilaterally bust unions with the stroke of the pen there is nothing to worry about. Until then all of the lawyering up and irrelevant legislation means squat to the big picture.

It's all on us. All of their legislation, attempt at legislation, and union busting attorneys doesn't mean squat if we as employees want a union. Earlier I asked for an example(s) of when a union(s) was busted strictly by an outside entity without any participation on the part of the employees. Meaning.....I want to know what unions have been busted whether the employees wanted it busted or not. No one answered. And thats probably because it's never happened.



Agreed. But I must question the part about them being a financial burden. Have any locals folded or not been able to represent their members due to there being too many scabs? I know down here in my RTW state it hasn't happened in my local.



Unions don't belong in schools. They are counterproductive to our kids's educations. Not to mention dangerous. How many horrible teachers and pedophiles have unions allowed to stay on at schools when logic dictates that they should be fired. In many teachers unions it's near impossible to fire teachers that clearly deserve it. Why would we not protect the kids from these people?

Having unions in certain government jobs is debatable too. In my opinion unions shouldn't be allowed near military bases or anything else involved with national defense if there is the potential for strikes or other union activity to disrupt base operations. That would primarily be DOD installations and their civilian counterparts. I don't think anyone in their right minds should have a problem with that.

My main point, again, is that none of these attacks on unions matter if we, like you said, stick together. Until politicians (and others that attack unions) can bypass the will of the employees and unilaterally bust unions with the stroke of the pen there is nothing to worry about. Until then all of the lawyering up and irrelevant legislation means squat to the big picture.

It's all on us. All of their legislation, attempt at legislation, and union busting attorneys doesn't mean squat if we as employees want a union. Earlier I asked for an example(s) of when a union(s) was busted strictly by an outside entity without any participation on the part of the employees. Meaning.....I want to know what unions have been busted whether the employees wanted it busted or not. No one answered. And thats probably because it's never happened.



Agreed. But I must question the part about them being a financial burden. Have any locals folded or not been able to represent their members due to there being too many scabs? I know down here in my RTW state it hasn't happened in my local.

You may "question the part about them being a financial burden" all you want, but the simple fact of the matter is that if there is an entity providing services to them that people other than them are paying for, they are a financial burden. Have you looked at the LM-2's of your own Local? Have you looked at the LM-2's of some of the smaller Locals around your area? There are local unions in difficult financial straits. Not because of me. Not because of you. The cost of providing representation, arbitration, collective bargaining is escalating. Question it all you want! It is a financial burden when a segment of the bargaining unit simply chooses not to compensate for the services they receive!



Unions don't belong in schools. They are counterproductive to our kids's educations. Not to mention dangerous. How many horrible teachers and pedophiles have unions allowed to stay on at schools when logic dictates that they should be fired. In many teachers unions it's near impossible to fire teachers that clearly deserve it. Why would we not protect the kids from these people?

You really need to do your homework here. Qualified teachers are not counterproductive to our kids education. "horrible teachers"? "pedophiles"? Can you provide one example of the AFT or the NEA defending a pedophile teacher? No? Didn't think so. What you've done here is throw out a red herring to bolster your argument. The NEA, the AFT and the teachers in your local school system have a legitimate obligation to protect the children they're entrusted with. The parents of those children make it their business to know what's happening in the classroom.

Having unions in certain government jobs is debatable too. In my opinion unions shouldn't be allowed near military bases or anything else involved with national defense if there is the potential for strikes or other union activity to disrupt base operations. That would primarily be DOD installations and their civilian counterparts. I don't think anyone in their right minds should have a problem with that.

Please!!! Don't you think that the involved DOD or involved government entity would make certain that they didn't enter into a collective bargaining agreement that would place the nation in jeopardy? Really? Give me a break!

My main point, again, is that none of these attacks on unions matter if we, like you said, stick together. Until politicians (and others that attack unions) can bypass the will of the employees and unilaterally bust unions with the stroke of the pen there is nothing to worry about. Until then all of the lawyering up and irrelevant legislation means squat to the big picture.

There is a great deal to worry about, and the "stroke of the pen" is minor compared to what we're facing! RTW! NRTW Committee! Huge law firms that focus solely on busting unions while union-side law firms are starving! And union members who think this is okay while they attack other unions! Good Lord! What the Hell are we dealing with here?

 

[brown_trousers]

It's all on us. All of their legislation, attempt at legislation, and union busting attorneys doesn't mean squat if we as employees want a union. Earlier I asked for an example(s) of when a union(s) was busted strictly by an outside entity without any participation on the part of the employees. Meaning.....I want to know what unions have been busted whether the employees wanted it busted or not. No one answered. And thats probably because it's never happened.



Agreed. But I must question the part about them being a financial burden. Have any locals folded or not been able to represent their members due to there being too many scabs? I know down here in my RTW state it hasn't happened in my local.



Unions don't belong in schools. They are counterproductive to our kids's educations. Not to mention dangerous. How many horrible teachers and pedophiles have unions allowed to stay on at schools when logic dictates that they should be fired. In many teachers unions it's near impossible to fire teachers that clearly deserve it. Why would we not protect the kids from these people?

Having unions in certain government jobs is debatable too. In my opinion unions shouldn't be allowed near military bases or anything else involved with national defense if there is the potential for strikes or other union activity to disrupt base operations. That would primarily be DOD installations and their civilian counterparts. I don't think anyone in their right minds should have a problem with that.

My main point, again, is that none of these attacks on unions matter if we, like you said, stick together. Until politicians (and others that attack unions) can bypass the will of the employees and unilaterally bust unions with the stroke of the pen there is nothing to worry about. Until then all of the lawyering up and irrelevant legislation means squat to the big picture.

I completely agree... there just seems to be something wrong with the idea that people can unionize against the taxpayers, which is exactly what a school union is.

i have always believed that in matters of government, it should the taxpayers voting on salaries, benefits, etc...

 

[Coldworld]

RTW is nearly inconsequential in our state. Obamacare on the other hand is taking a toll on working folks. Union workers need to stop allowing themselves to be used as marters to the Democrat party. While you've been ordered to stomp around mad about right-to-work the Democrats have screwed your health care up, divided our country, flooded the workforce with low-wage immigrant workers & placed unions in the weakest position we've been in for decades etc etc. Wise up.

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dont tell some of the rich republicans that you're going to shut down the border....they wont like that, wont be able to get anymore cheap labor...its all about the lesser of two evils.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Teach me smurf, make me wise. Tell us all about the republican position on collective bargaining? Im willing to listen. Im not talking Eisenhower either?

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It's simple, Republicans favor legislation that is good for workers, families, taxpayers and school children. Not legislation that favors unions and screws everyone else. Democrats and union leaders use that as a wedge to make you believe that Republicans hate you. And yes I am a union member.

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[Atomic_Smurf]

dont tell some of the rich republicans that you're going to shut down the border....they wont like that, wont be able to get anymore cheap labor...its all about the lesser of two evils.

Republicans wanted a fence in 2006 that would have cost $4.1 billion dollars and Democrats balked. Yesterday our president asked for $3.7 billion , not for a fence, but just to absorb the recent flood of illegals into the country.

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Is your union job just a secondary income or a hobby you aren't really worried about? For me its how I provide my family a good life. I don't understand the blind loyalty to a politician that attacks your way of life. I hear ya on Obamacare, the war on coal, the keystone pipeline. The republicans actively try to destroy unions. They spend a lot of time and money to train their lobbyists and hand picked politicians to undercut unions, its a fact

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[Ron Carey lives on]

That is unacceptable to me smurf, evidently the right to work agenda is just fine with you. As I asked earlier, why the urgency? Is collective bargaining whats wrong with country? I think not. Nothing wrong with a conservative outlook. Just don't come after me. Im working everyday, providing a service, it is my legal right to ask for a fair days pay for a fair days work.

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Is your union job just a secondary income or a hobby you aren't really worried about? For me its how I provide my family a good life. I don't understand the blind loyalty to a politician that attacks your way of life. I hear ya on Obamacare, the war on coal, the keystone pipeline. The republicans actively try to destroy unions. They spend a lot of time and money to train their lobbyists and hand picked politicians to undercut unions, its a fact

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What Republicans have tried to "destroy" unions? All I've seen is Republicans side with the majority of taxpayers and our children's education when unions demand special treatment over their fellow Americans.

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[Atomic_Smurf]

That is unacceptable to me smurf, evidently the right to work agenda is just fine with you. As I asked earlier, why the urgency? Is collective bargaining whats wrong with country? I think not. Nothing wrong with a conservative outlook. Just don't come after me. Im working everyday, providing a service, it is my legal right to ask for a fair days pay for a fair days work.

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Unions are not the problem in this country. Unions demanding special treatment over other Americans is a problem. Together, we will continue to fight for a fair day's pay but today the politicians stealing out of your benefits package, closing down coal mines, and pushing fast track are your heroes on the left. Talk about blind loyalty...

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[Overpaid Union Thug]

There is a great deal to worry about, and the "stroke of the pen" is minor compared to what we're facing! RTW! NRTW Committee! Huge law firms that focus solely on busting unions while union-side law firms are starving! And union members who think this is okay while they attack other unions! Good Lord! What the Hell are we dealing with here?

You have completely missed the point. RTW and union busting lawyers (that term amuses me because they can't bust a union without the the consent of the employees) are irrelevant if enough of the employees are determined to be unionized.

dont tell some of the rich republicans that you're going to shut down the border....they wont like that, wont be able to get anymore cheap labor...its all about the lesser of two evils.

Yeah really. Maybe they should get together with their limousine liberal counterparts and figure out a way to stop it? Oh wait....liberals want the cheap labor even more. And they also see millions of potential future liberal voters. So, you see..... those that claim to be for unions and the working man are so much more responsible for widening their plight than the people they are claiming are responsible for it.


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[Coldworld]

Kick them all out of office....If you think the Republican party cares about the average American worker even if they are Republican. .well think again. I guess it doesn't matter though because the Republicans workers in the south are very happy with making 9 bucks an hour..As long as you don't screw with their right to own 100 guns they could care less about anything else.

 

[brown_trousers]

Kick them all out of office....If you think the Republican party cares about the average American worker even if they are Republican. .well think again. I guess it doesn't matter though because the Republicans workers in the south are very happy with making 9 bucks an hour..As long as you don't screw with their right to own 100 guns they could care less about anything else.

If they are happy making $9 an hour, then let them be happy! Who are you, to tell them that their happiness should involve more money?

 

[Coldworld]

If they are happy making $9 an hour, then let them be happy! Who are you, to tell them that their happiness should involve more money?

It keeps all of the businesses moving down there for that exact reason...I could care less if someone is happy making squat..The businesses are the ones laughing all the way to the bank....just keep em stocked up with guns and all will be fine!

 

[Coldworld]

Republicans don't give a about you..either do the Democrats...One party system and the middle class are the ones paying the price...and you think it's OK to raise a family on 9 bucks an hour...Please