Why is a 22.4 driver worth less?

[PT Car Washer]

over here, the 22.3 air combo guys help out with our ground when we need the help.

In my building, 22.3 air combo drivers have threatened to get on the 9.5 list.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

In my building, 22.3 air combo drivers have threatened to get on the 9.5 list.

What language supports that ?

 

[PT Car Washer]

What language supports that ?

There is none. They can be worked up to 14 hours a day.

 

[brown_trousers]

What language supports that ?

They dont have 9.5 language. But ground work is extra work for them, so they dont have to take it if they dont want it.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Why do air drivers make less? They punch into diads, drive ups package cars, handle packages and make deliveries.

I’m not advocating for the 22.4 language. I’m just curious to hear opinions.

Simple - Stop Density

 

[bowhnterdon]

22.4s already exist in most hubs, they are air drivers. And why be mad at the air driver? If he can rig the ups system why not? Would you rather have ors delivering?[/QUOTE Absolutely. Most, if not all Air Drivers at my Center get 40 hours or more every week

 

[clipperman]

No offense but I’ve seen Feeder drivers work harder than an Air Driver.
In all honesty it seems like the Air guys have been overpaid. Comparing what you go thru in package.

So it’s your opinion if it appears two employees are doing the same job but one looks to be working harder than the other,one should be paid less? Heard that line from management every place I’ve worked. Are you a fan of performances based raises also?

 

[DOK]

Okay, the 22.4 driver is working 8+ hours a day.....probably a lot longer....with a 90 minute unpaid break in between......Let's say 9am to 10:30pm....paid for 12 hours.
He/she works Saturday....maybe Sunday.....at the end of the week they are guaranteed 40 hours.....but probably will work 60.....with 7.5 hours in unpaid break time.
Mean while....a RPCD gets 3 days a week.

So this 22.4 driver is going to be happy making $6 an hour less? Tell me more about this unique individual?

Why would a RPCD get 3 days? RPCD will have seniority over the 22.4 and be guaranteed their 8 hours a day. They wouldnbt be able to use a 22.4 and refuse work to a RPCD...

the 22.4 wont start at 9am, its a combo job so they will probably be working preload from 4am then get their break when preload is done, before going out to drive. Then there is a good chance they would use them to run bulk stops/pieces stuff left behind etc, maybe take stops off people instead of running a normal route. In reality they probably will have an easier driving job than RPCD. Which will then beg the question, "why does he get the cake job of delivering bulk and and doing pick ups, while I have more seniority and am going out with a bricked out truck and 10 hours of work?"

its going to be interesting how they use the 22.4's, some people think they will used them to do pickups and take the pick ups off of the regular drivers and give them more stops..

Why do air drivers make less? They punch into diads, drive ups package cars, handle packages and make deliveries.

I’m not advocating for the 22.4 language. I’m just curious to hear opinions.

Well, its a part time job (the driving portion of it anyway) and its a much easier job than a RPCD has, woudlnt you agree? They also had a great loophole of getting to $25 an hour after only 2 years, and then can go full time and keep that wage while going thru FT progression which would take anyone else 3 years to get to. That loophole is closed with this contract being they made it a 4 year progression for them too

Bruh this is the whole point, doesn’t matter the seniority you have. It’s written in the contract 22.4’s Get 40 hours guaranteed, RPCD Get 40 only if “work is available”.

 

[MrBates]

Why do air drivers make less? They punch into diads, drive ups package cars, handle packages and make deliveries.

I’m not advocating for the 22.4 language. I’m just curious to hear opinions.

Air drivers make less because the job is easier.

 

[Slug Life]

So it’s your opinion if it appears two employees are doing the same job but one looks to be working harder than the other,one should be paid less? Heard that line from management every place I’ve worked. Are you a fan of performances based raises also?

First off I’m not bitter towards the Air Drivers making what they make. I never ran air had to pre-load and tcd for 2 years to full time package.
My point is you would think UPS being so greedy would have never agreed to the pay they got for the work they do. Props to the Union for getting them that pay.
Seems pre-load would have been paid better all along considering the work they do is all.

 

[AwashBwashCwash]

It's very simple. They will be paid less because people will be willing to do the job for that amount
The labor force is divided between full-timers and part-timers.
The wage gap is so enormous between them that the two are in completely different economic classes, with part-timers being literally poor and full-timers being upper middle-class.
22.4 offers a middle road between them. It allows UPS to chip away at the luxurious package current full-timers enjoy while offering part-timers a big step up from their current working conditions. Part-timers were sold out for decades and that process has finally come home to roost. 22.4 will be the monster that you yourselves created with your greed.

 

[Slug Life]

It's very simple. They will be paid less because people will be willing to do the job for that amount
The labor force is divided between full-timers and part-timers.
The wage gap is so enormous between them that the two are in completely different economic classes, with part-timers being literally poor and full-timers being upper middle-class.
22.4 offers a middle road between them. It allows UPS to chip away at the luxurious package current full-timers enjoy while offering part-timers a big step up from their current working conditions. Part-timers were sold out for decades and that process has finally come home to roost. 22.4 will be the monster that you yourselves created with your greed.

Again part-time Air drivers are getting paid big money. So the whole argument over gap in wage between part-time/full-time is null.
Only difference is they pay those behind the wheel way more to be part-time.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Air drivers make less because the job is easier.

I agree Master Bates,
Because it's less packages per stop and greater driving times between stops.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

I agree Master Bates,
Because it's less packages per stop and greater driving times between stops.

By that logic country route drivers should get paid less too.

It's very simple. They will be paid less because people will be willing to do the job for that amount
The labor force is divided between full-timers and part-timers.
The wage gap is so enormous between them that the two are in completely different economic classes, with part-timers being literally poor and full-timers being upper middle-class.
22.4 offers a middle road between them. It allows UPS to chip away at the luxurious package current full-timers enjoy while offering part-timers a big step up from their current working conditions. Part-timers were sold out for decades and that process has finally come home to roost. 22.4 will be the monster that you yourselves created with your greed.

I really hope this is a joke. In case it's not, I should point out that precious few drivers didn't have to work multiple jobs to make ends meet for years as part timers to get a chance to go full time, and then more years working at a fraction of full driver rate. And you want to disparage them for taking a possibly career-ending leap to go driving? Not to mention, part timers will always be poorer by comparison, even if they get paid the same, because they work fewer hours. By all means, fight for better pay for part timers, but don't blame the drivers for your plight.

 

[Slug Life]

Whoa whoa whoa... pump the brakes baby. Us country-route drivers earn our pay. We gotta drive on the worst roads one can imagine.
We also gotta deal with an in-bred jed township. Did I mention our SPOR are lowering at an all time rate.
This is Sparta and we demand respect. WOOOOOOO!!! Space Mountain

 

[Old Man Jingles]

By that logic country route drivers should get paid less too.

Yeah ... I realized that a second or so after posting.
Good point.

I can't speak for country route drivers these days but 40 years ago, that accumulated area knowledge was worth more than an urban driver.

 

[Old Man Jingles]

Whoa whoa whoa... pump the brakes baby. Us country-route drivers earn our pay. We gotta drive on the worst roads one can imagine.
We also gotta deal with an in-bred jed township. Did I mention our SPOR are lowering at an all time rate.
This is Sparta and we demand respect. WOOOOOOO!!! Space Mountain

Any prejudice against rural drivers certainly was not my intent.
I was a cover driver in a center with both rural and urban routes. I could pick up an urban route in one day.
Some of those rural routes would just kick my ass by the end of a vacation cover.

 

[DELACROIX]

I agree Master Bates,
Because it's less packages per stop and greater driving times between stops.

But.. for the most part they will be delivering high revenue packages..Irregulars.. Over 70's..Late Air and any weekend guaranteed delivers will have an added surcharge.

The newer 22.4s will be basically part time drivers in due time, most will opt for paid actual because of their work scheduling or personal time. These 22.4s will not be tempting to any higher seniority part timer or full timer in any classification..They will be filled with low seniority and hired off the street members trying to actually make a career with UPS. Sort of like a minor league system that you will have to go through in order to get to the big leagues (Regular Package Car or Feeders). This is a concession..question is what did we get for it and will it be worth it?

 

[Old Man Jingles]

But.. for the most part they will be delivering high revenue packages..Irregulars.. Over 70's..Late Air and any weekend guaranteed delivers will have an added surcharge.

The newer 22.4s will be basically part time drivers in due time, most will opt for paid actual because of their work scheduling or personal time. These 22.4s will not be tempting to any higher seniority part timer or full timer in any classification..They will be filled with low seniority and hired off the street members trying to actually make a career with UPS. Sort of like a minor league system that you will have to go through in order to get to the big leagues (Regular Package Car or Feeders). This is a concession..question is what did we get for it and will it be worth it?

Just throwing this out there and trying to come up with an answer to your challenge:
One of the things I heard drivers complaining about a lot on here was that their bodies and minds were just getting worn down with no recovery time.
Maybe taking care of these higher pressure deliveries such critical air, over 70's and irregs (to steal your examples) will take some of the pressure and physically demanding deliveries off on a younger, fresh person.

 

[DELACROIX]

That is why they are always the one to be scanned as LIBs. Not enough room on the car to make their service commitments..It is a constant occurrence in my building..The Hub Is not much better, again not enough room on the trailers. These are high revenue packages..Really do not understand the planning on this, other than look good on paper.

You are lucky you retired...Last peak was the worst...I swear we had thousands of air packages stuck in the yard with perfect weather conditions and only reason is they did not have enough equipment or manpower to deliver them..Pathetic..

Are these 22.4's going to solve this problem (it could)...I believe the real problem is the people making these decisions are not listening to the ground troops involved in operations whether management or senior union folk who have been through it.

They force these centers to make brick without straw to get their numbers or their perceived advancement. So what is a few LIBs..also it creates a lot of integrity issues with their scanning codes..So follow the rules and please do not try to hide any service failure.