Would FDXG Driver unionization help ISP's

[MAKAVELI]

The Right to Organize
As an independent contractor, the terms and conditions of the work you perform are set out in a contract between you and the employer. Even though you are not considered an “employee” under federal labor law, you may still join a union. However, you should keep in mind that a unit of independent contractors is not subject to the same privileges and protections as a regular union bargaining unit. For example, an employer is not under the same obligation to bargain with a union regarding contract terms for an independent contractor that it is to bargain over issues affecting its regular employees. Also, an independent contractor who went on strike would not be protected from employer reprisals under the National Labor Relations Act. www.cwa-union.org/

The main impediment would be possible anti-trust action being taken against any such union.
So continue to bend over and take it without Vaseline, if you insist.

FedEx wouldn't bargain with Teamsters at Freight. They surely wouldn't bargain with a contractors union.

 

[Fred's Myth]

FedEx wouldn't bargain with Teamsters at Freight. They surely wouldn't bargain with a contractors union.

And to think I actually believed you only had to walk small children across the street!

Freight situation was at a single terminal. There was a tactical miscalculation in thinking there was any leverage a single terminal could impose. There's a lesson here. It's called "collective" bargaining for a reason. The first step is to form that collective, then you begin negotiating better terms as a group.

FedEx is morphing its plan in response to government, or judicial pressure. Standing on the sidelines thinking that all you can do is watch is the characteristic of a loser.

 

[bbsam]

And to think I actually believed you only had to walk small children across the street!

Freight situation was at a single terminal. There was a tactical miscalculation in thinking there was any leverage a single terminal could impose. There's a lesson here. It's called "collective" bargaining for a reason. The first step is to form that collective, then you begin negotiating better terms as a group.

FedEx is morphing its plan in response to government, or judicial pressure. Standing on the sidelines thinking that all you can do is watch is the characteristic of a loser.

Well now you’re just harkening back to the idea of Express unionizing. If you can’t do it station by station and can’t do it all at once, what are you left with?

 

[MAKAVELI]

And to think I actually believed you only had to walk small children across the street!

Freight situation was at a single terminal. There was a tactical miscalculation in thinking there was any leverage a single terminal could impose. There's a lesson here. It's called "collective" bargaining for a reason. The first step is to form that collective, then you begin negotiating better terms as a group.

FedEx is morphing its plan in response to government, or judicial pressure. Standing on the sidelines thinking that all you can do is watch is the characteristic of a loser.

Actually it was quite a few terminals. The point is FedEx is so anti-union they refused to negotiate with these terminals who had a legal right to representation. What makes you think contractors would do better than the IBT when they have very little in regards to Protections in the workplace?

 

[MAKAVELI]

And to think I actually believed you only had to walk small children across the street!

Freight situation was at a single terminal. There was a tactical miscalculation in thinking there was any leverage a single terminal could impose. There's a lesson here. It's called "collective" bargaining for a reason. The first step is to form that collective, then you begin negotiating better terms as a group.

FedEx is morphing its plan in response to government, or judicial pressure. Standing on the sidelines thinking that all you can do is watch is the characteristic of a loser.

I guess that would make you a loser too since you didn't organize Express. Maybe I should hold your hand across the street.

 

[dmac1]

You have jumped to the false conclusion that all a union does is strike.
The purpose of a union is to represent its members, as a collective, to ensure a fair and equitable contract. There IS power in numbers. If all contractors were members, FedEx would be unable to fire any, or all, of them without the repercussions of having a complete disruption of its business.

There was no false conclusion. You talked about negotiating as a group, and you will be fired for that alone. In addition, you apparently are ignorant of the fact that each contract expires on different dates, and if you believe that any other contractor is going to risk his contract, which may have more than a year remaining, and his tens of thousands invested in vehicles, plus maybe tens of thousands more in what he/she may have paid for the contract, you should never have gotten into this work. Unionizing when contractors only had single routes was barely possible. now these 'valuable' businesses have too much at risk to get even half a terminal to even attend a meeting about the possibility of unionizing.

 

[dvalleyjim]

I am a semi-retired attorney whose nephew is an ISP. I also have a friend whose son is a driver. I am also watching the UPS situation re their impending (and its related issues) action re work hours and conditions.

My knowledge of FDX leads me to believe that the nature of contracts agreed to by the ISP's has led to similar, if not worse driver working conditions than those being confronted by the Teamsters.

Would it be reasonable to consider that an organizing effort by contractor drivers would assist contractors in elevating their income to a level that could lead to better recruitment/retention of their workforce?

I think people get hung up on the ISP contract. I would just do another class action lawsuit with the ISP driver against FedEx Ground and bypass the ISP. The driver still works for FX and the ISP model is just a ruse for unfair and illegal labor practices.

 

[dmac1]

The contractors/ISP's are incorporated entities, they can't join the union, but their drivers can. If the drivers of a contractor would strike against the contractor, then FedEx would terminate the contractor for not servicing their area. If the workers of a contractor demand more money and the contractor can't afford it, the contractor goes out of business. I don't see FedEx giving a contractor more money to pay for a unionized workforce. The union would have no bearing on FedEx, only the contractor, the driver's employer.

It is a no win for the workers of contractors to unionize, they would be unemployed in a short amount of time. I doubt FedEx would hire the contractor drivers either, when it was RPS, we were not to hire or contract with an individual who had worked in a union company.

I don't see the Teamsters trying to organize these contractors for these reasons, no long term benefit for them. Might be good PR to unionize a few locations, but it would not last.

The only benefit would be that any court case that terminated contractors/corporations/drivers would bring to the forefront any issue that drivers may be employees of fedex, or put another way, that such a case may resolve whether fedex is actually a co-employer of any drivers purported to be hired by independent contractors. But again, the amount now required to be invested to become a contractor is too high for almost any current contractor to risk.Trying to unionize either contractors or drivers would be like trying to unionize McDonald's or any franchise. The fedex contract is closer to a franchise than a real independent contractor franchise.

 

[bbsam]

I think people get hung up on the ISP contract. I would just do another class action lawsuit with the ISP driver against FedEx Ground and bypass the ISP. The driver still works for FX and the ISP model is just a ruse for unfair and illegal labor practices.

Oh. Well now tha that’s settled, I guess the attorneys will be anxious to represent.

 

[dmac1]

I think people get hung up on the ISP contract. I would just do another class action lawsuit with the ISP driver against FedEx Ground and bypass the ISP. The driver still works for FX and the ISP model is just a ruse for unfair and illegal labor practices.

That would be one way to get the 'co-employer' issue to the court if enough drivers were fired at once to make it a class action case that fedex would not settle before a court decision. When fedex settles out of court, even a class action, it sets no legal precedent and leaves the current situation unaffected.

 

[Fred's Myth]

Your employer cannot simply call you an independent contractor to avoid federal and state legal requirements – if the characteristics of your job resemble those of an employee, then your employer must treat you as an employee. An independent contractor’s job is characterized by independence. You might be an independent contractor if:

• You are paid by the project instead of receiving an hourly, weekly or monthly wage;
• You provide your own tools, equipment or materials;
• You are free to perform services or work for other clients;
• You are free to work off-site and are not required to work during established hours;
• You are free to subcontract out some of the work to others; and
• You are free to complete the project at your own discretion and are not given specific instructions by the employer. www.cwa-union.org

But then again, you are Independent SERVICE PROVIDERS, not Contractors.

 

[It will be fine]

Your employer cannot simply call you an independent contractor to avoid federal and state legal requirements – if the characteristics of your job resemble those of an employee, then your employer must treat you as an employee. An independent contractor’s job is characterized by independence. You might be an independent contractor if:

• You are paid by the project instead of receiving an hourly, weekly or monthly wage;
• You provide your own tools, equipment or materials;
• You are free to perform services or work for other clients;
• You are free to work off-site and are not required to work during established hours;
• You are free to subcontract out some of the work to others; and
• You are free to complete the project at your own discretion and are not given specific instructions by the employer. www.cwa-union.org

But then again, you are Independent SERVICE PROVIDERS, not Contractors.

I can easily make a reasonable argument to answer yes to all those stipulations.

 

[Fred's Myth]

I can easily make a reasonable argument to answer yes to all those stipulations.

I'll bite. What other company can you deliver packages for?
What non-established hours at your pleasure can you
provide your services to FedEx?
What discretion are you given to perform the task via
your own methods?

 

[It will be fine]

I'll bite. What other company can you deliver packages for?
What non-established hours at your pleasure can you
provide your services to FedEx?
What discretion are you given to perform the task via
your own methods?

I know several contractors that have contracts with Amazon.

Ground packages only have to be delivered on the commit date. My hours are established by me. If I feel like sleeping in until noon there’s no one to stop me.

I plan the routes, I determine staffing needs and productivity requirements. I train the drivers. I purchase the equipment needed.

 

[BoxDriver]

Look at the hours Orion says he works. Comes in kinda late and out delivering late. Not really your conventional hours for delivery service.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Look at the hours Orion says he works. Comes in kinda late and out delivering late. Not really your conventional hours for delivery service.

@OrioN is a company man. When he's not working, he's fixing his contractor's truck.

 

[Chaos]

You’d have a better chance of seeing God.

Union
Yes would benefit from it.

Never will it happen and as the rest have said you’d be gone before any opportunity for that to arise.

 

[OrioN]

Look at the hours Orion says he works. Comes in kinda late and out delivering late. Not really your conventional hours for delivery service.

That's the only thing independent about this job.

Yes, I roll in 900-930 most weekday s, but on Saturday, I rolled in 800 & was done by 1800, while seeing 2 UPS drivers still sorting their loads as I was driving home.

My new BC is doing great at balancing the routes now that I'm not staying out so late... I'm guessing they are coddling the drivers before the storm called peak season arrives.

I wish I can use the same FedEx truck to do a few hours of Amazon flex on a Sunday, butt that would be considered conflict of interest???

 

[Chaos]

How many stops are you doing and what kind of area

 

[dmac1]

I know several contractors that have contracts with Amazon.

Ground packages only have to be delivered on the commit date. My hours are established by me. If I feel like sleeping in until noon there’s no one to stop me.

I plan the routes, I determine staffing needs and productivity requirements. I train the drivers. I purchase the equipment needed.

I dare you to come into the terminal with a load of Amazon packages on your truck and load your fedex packages with the manager knowing, or telling your manager that you will be stopping at Amazon to pick up packages.

And I dare you to come into the terminal someday without prior notice at 3 pm with enough trucks and drivers to finish by 5 pm. You can't do any of that, and if any of your drivers is deliverying fedex packages and Amazon out of the same truck, you are violating fedex policies, even if the contract doesn't say so. That was a huge part of the lawsuits before. Fedex has a whole book of policies that they enforce even if not part of the contract.

And I dare you to pull in some day without prior approval in a Chevy volt, and have a driver drop off a couple packages who hasn't been approved by fedex even if the driver has a Class a license and runs his own trucking business. I dare you to take packages to your local courier company and pay them to deliver the packages for you. You are in no way independent, except in your independent right to not renew the contract. You can't even quit without a penalty. Independent my