Legal firearms in my car

[soberups]

Here is another way to look at it.

Lets say the company decided to hang up a sign in the parking lot that says "no oatmeal cookies allowed", and you just happen to roll into the parking lot with a bag of oatmeal cookies in your car.

Does the company have the right to make up the rule and hang the sign on their property? Yes. Are you therefore breaking the law by having that bag of cookies in your car anyway? No. Does the company have the right to search your car? No...but even if they did, there is no law against having a bag of oatmeal cookies in your car, so whether the search turned up any oatmeal cookies or not would be irrelevant. This holds true whether the object in question is an oatmeal cookie, a curling iron, a book, a shovel, a gun, or any other perfectly legal inantimate object.

 

[bbsam]

I'll raise you one. What is the company had a sign saying no drugs and alcohol? Let's say a group of guys hang out in the lot after a shift on a Friday night and a D-bag supervisor spies them drinking a few brews. Totally legal. Fireable offense?

 

[bbsam]

Speaking of which, can UPS drivers in Washington and Colorado smoke pot off the clock now? And if so, how does that work with drug testing? Has UPS been required to determine an "acceptable level"? I've been wondering about that for a while now.

 

[soberups]

I'll raise you one. What is the company had a sign saying no drugs and alcohol? Let's say a group of guys hang out in the lot after a shift on a Friday night and a D-bag supervisor spies them drinking a few brews. Totally legal. Fireable offense?

Depends upon where in the country they work and what contract they fall under. Out here in the West, the answer would be "no" since drinking a beer in the parking lot is not listed as a cardinal offense under Art 26 Section 2 of the Western Supplement. There is language somewhere in the contract that prohibits employees from remaining on the property more than 1/2 hr after the end of their shift (I'm too lazy to look it up right now), so in this case the company could (a) file criminal charges against the employees for trespassing and (b) issue them a warning letter for violating the contract by remaining on the property after their shift. Other areas of the country have inferior language to ours regarding discharges and suspensions, with the terms "other serious offenses" or "cause of equal seriousness" being listed among the cardinal infractions, so in their case a termination might stick.

 

[soberups]

Speaking of which, can UPS drivers in Washington and Colorado smoke pot off the clock now? And if so, how does that work with drug testing? Has UPS been required to determine an "acceptable level"? I've been wondering about that for a while now.

Any changes in state law regarding the legal status of marijuana would be irrelevant to the existing contractual language regarding urine testing and the consequences of being impaired while on duty.

 

[bbsam]

Any changes in state law regarding the legal status of marijuana would be irrelevant to the existing contractual language regarding urine testing and the consequences of being impaired while on duty.

thank you for the answers. I'm still a little confused on the marijuana urine test since a positive result would not necessitate impairment at the time of vehicle operation.

 

[bbsam]

Depends upon where in the country they work and what contract they fall under. Out here in the West, the answer would be "no" since drinking a beer in the parking lot is not listed as a cardinal offense under Art 26 Section 2 of the Western Supplement. There is language somewhere in the contract that prohibits employees from remaining on the property more than 1/2 hr after the end of their shift (I'm too lazy to look it up right now), so in this case the company could (a) file criminal charges against the employees for trespassing and (b) issue them a warning letter for violating the contract by remaining on the property after their shift. Other areas of the country have inferior language to ours regarding discharges and suspensions, with the terms "other serious offenses" or "cause of equal seriousness" being listed among the cardinal infractions, so in their case a termination might stick.

So then in some areas of the country with inferior contract language, could someone be discharged under the "other serious offense" for having the otherwise legal gun on the property?

 

[Bagels]

Here is another way to look at it.

Lets say the company decided to hang up a sign in the parking lot that says "no oatmeal cookies allowed", and you just happen to roll into the parking lot with a bag of oatmeal cookies in your car.

Does the company have the right to make up the rule and hang the sign on their property? Yes. Are you therefore breaking the law by having that bag of cookies in your car anyway? No. Does the company have the right to search your car? No...but even if they did, there is no law against having a bag of oatmeal cookies in your car, so whether the search turned up any oatmeal cookies or not would be irrelevant. This holds true whether the object in question is an oatmeal cookie, a curling iron, a book, a shovel, a gun, or any other perfectly legal inantimate object.

Might want to brush up your knowledge of the law. While there may be no law against bringing a bag of cookies into the UPS parking lot, there is a law against trespassing, and if UPS has made it clear the cookies are not permitted on their property, but you choose to bring them, anyway, you are trespassing and hence breaking the law. While the police probably wouldn't respond over a bag of cookies, I'm certain that even in some of the most conservative areas they would over a loaded weapon.

 

[soberups]

Here is another way to look at it.

Lets say the company decided to hang up a sign in the parking lot that says "no oatmeal cookies allowed", and you just happen to roll into the parking lot with a bag of oatmeal cookies in your car.

Does the company have the right to make up the rule and hang the sign on their property? Yes. Are you therefore breaking the law by having that bag of cookies in your car anyway? No. Does the company have the right to search your car? No...but even if they did, there is no law against having a bag of oatmeal cookies in your car, so whether the search turned up any oatmeal cookies or not would be irrelevant. This holds true whether the object in question is an oatmeal cookie, a curling iron, a book, a shovel, a gun, or any other perfectly legal inantimate object.

Might want to brush up your knowledge of the law. While there may be no law against bringing a bag of cookies into the UPS parking lot, there is a law against trespassing, and if UPS has made it clear the cookies are not permitted on their property, but you choose to bring them, anyway, you are trespassing and hence breaking the law. While the police probably wouldn't respond over a bag of cookies, I'm certain that even in some of the most conservative areas they would over a loaded weapon.

In the state of Oregon at least, the law is quite specific. It is only trespassing if you are asked to leave and refuse to. Mere posession of the weapon itself, in violation of signage to the contrary, is NOT illegal.

 

[Camping Nana]

Very interesting thread. My thought is this..........

People are going to have to go a long way to get something past UPS.

Their lawyers have lawyers.

 

[Lineandinitial]

If you are in an "At will" state you can be terminated for carrying the gun onto the property. You can also be terminted for anything else or nothing. THAT is legal. The legality of a gun on the property has to have moire context than simply carrying it. Is the car your property? Yes. Is everything in your car your property? Yes (or at least under your control). Is the gun in your car legal? If concealed, it depends upon your authorization and the state you are in. If in plain sight, there is no regulation, so it is neither legal nor illegal.

 

[soberups]

The bottom line is this:

A private party cannot make an otherwise legal item illegal simply by posting a sign that prohibits that item on property owned by that party.

If this were not the case, then a private party such as UPS could post a handwritten "sign" on a 3x5 index card in the back of the parking lot stating "no shoelaces allowed on this property" and every single person who parked their car in the lot would automatically be a criminal.

 

[UPSBOT]

Have any of you ever had anyone say anything regarding guns in your car in the UPS parking lot? I have a concealed carry permit, have carried for years. However some at UPS interpret the "no weapons in the facilities" rule to also apply to my vehicle. I can't keep a firearm for my personal protection on the way to work and the way home without storing it in my car while I'm at work. Any comments?

We had this same thing happen in our center. Last year Wisconsin became the forty-ninth state to legalize concealed carry. Two weeks later the center manager reads a message from headquarters regarding CC. No guns in the building or left in vehicles parked on UPS property. Our steward called Wis. DOJ, and they sent a letter to UPS in Elm Grove stating that UPS can control guns in the building but not the parking lot. center manager acknowledged the letter and backed down on the parking lot rule. Not all states are the same so each person should read up on their CC law.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Are you sure about the 49 states claim?

 

[pharacyde]

Here in NC I carry everywhere I can, everyday. Our legislature is working to pass a bill that would force employers to allow their employees to keep handguns in their personal vehicles. Now if only they can move the bill to allow restaurant carry...

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Here in NC I carry everywhere I can, everyday. Our legislature is working to pass a bill that would force employers to allow their employees to keep handguns in their personal vehicles. Now if only they can move the bill to allow restaurant carry...

Don't you find it hypocritical to carry a bible in one hand and a firearm in the other?

 

[pharacyde]

Don't you find it hypocritical to carry a bible in one hand and a firearm in the other?

You make the mistake of inferring that I am religious from my geography. Couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[BMWMC]

People with guns tend to find other with guns. Birds of a feather flock together.

Good luck with that.

 

[johnoutdoors]

Are you sure about the 49 states claim?

Illinois and Washington DC are the only two geographical areas in the US that flat out prohibit concealed carry. 49 states is accurate, to the extent that a few states, like NJ, have a process to issue permits, but generally refuse to do so. Illinois is currently working on a court ordered permitting process and will soon become the 50th.

 

[soberups]

Don't you find it hypocritical to carry a bible in one hand and a firearm in the other?

David is regarded as a hero in the Bible because he killed Goliath on the field of battle by striking him in the head with a high-speed projectile discharged from a sling.

Would he be judged any differently if his weapon of choice had been a firearm, which is simply the modern-day equivalent of a sling?