Our Fantastic Healthcare

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I saw Bill Maher say on his show the other night that there are big problems with single payer systems. He's getting out ahead of it.

Vermont has been working toward a single payer system. They are a small state so it will be an interesting test model if it does happen.

 

[bacha29]

Then what do you think we should do about. Price controls? You already have that in most states with insurance commissions. Rationed care? Whereby you get a certain amount of very limited care. If you want more you pay for it out of your own pocket. Then again , in a few years you'll be signing up for Medicare. And I'll bet that Medicare a program introduced and past by a bunch left wing communist pinko liberal Democrats is a program you won't turn down.

 

[MrFedEx]

But look at what's happening. The insurers are backing out because they can't cover all the preexisting conditions without going bankrupt. Insurance is supposed to cover what might happen, not what already is happening. And here's the reality: we all die from something. In many parts of the world if you can't pay they won't even let you into the hospital. We seem to have developed a sense of entitlement concerning our health here, that it's our right to a long, healthy life.

Here's why I like single payer. One would think you'd like it too, since you've listed a variety of health issues. Is it socialist? Yes, but in the European/Canadian mode. People are living longer, but they're also having to work longer to keep medical coverage. Everyone is complaining that there are "no jobs" for college graduates, but there are literally millions who could and would retire if there was single-payer healthcare available, opening-up those jobs and presumably the economy. In a country as prosperous as ours, we probably have the right to demand good healthcare with the expectation of a long life.

Our current for-profit system incentivizes unnecessary testing to pad profits, and doctors have to jack-up their bills so they can afford malpractice insurance. Insurance companies still make obscene profits, including United HealthCare, which for years paid it's CEO an outrageous salary and compensated it's top execs well over the norm. I have Canadian relatives and a Canadian MD in the family, and they're mostly satisfied. The MD has his practice "capped", which I see as a problem because once he hits a certain dollar figure, he is done for the year.

 

[TUT]

Actually the healthcare insurance industry was providing us with insurance we could afford before Obamacare came along.

It's a ruse, corporations across the country kicked up deductibles stating the Tax coming in 2018 that is part of AHC, if the plan is over 27.5K annually. Few plans are in that range to have that tax applied, but they know you didn't know so they used that as the big excuse to kick up deductibles. They stated they would raise premiums slowly so it wouldn't be sticker shock in 2018. In reality is was big immediate hits and most programs will never been taxed and would have never been taxed. But today, that's all water under the bridge. We could literally be in a no win situation though.

 

[TUT]

I saw Bill Maher say on his show the other night that there are big problems with single payer systems. He's getting out ahead of it.

The big problem of change is system shock. So many powerful people make a living under the current cockamamie system that has no semblance of plan or order, just chaos with run away cost with the added gotcha of no upfront price quoting. It's a suck ass system today, no two ways about it.

 

[vantexan]

Then what do you think we should do about. Price controls? You already have that in most states with insurance commissions. Rationed care? Whereby you get a certain amount of very limited care. If you want more you pay for it out of your own pocket. Then again , in a few years you'll be signing up for Medicare. And I'll bet that Medicare a program introduced and past by a bunch left wing communist pinko liberal Democrats is a program you won't turn down.

Dude, Medicare is a program we've paid into our entire working lives(at a reasonable tax rate). Do you think you can get past the immature name calling?

 

[vantexan]

It's a ruse, corporations across the country kicked up deductibles stating the Tax coming in 2018 that is part of AHC, if the plan is over 27.5K annually. Few plans are in that range to have that tax applied, but they know you didn't know so they used that as the big excuse to kick up deductibles. They stated they would raise premiums slowly so it wouldn't be sticker shock in 2018. In reality is was big immediate hits and most programs will never been taxed and would have never been taxed. But today, that's all water under the bridge. We could literally be in a no win situation though.

The folks that are under Obamacare will see their premiums go up considerably in 2017, as much or more than 100% in some states. That's not corporations but the gov't created Obamacare. If Obamacare isn't abolished it will most likely be because corporations want to see all of us eventually on it and off their hands.

 

[vantexan]

Here's why I like single payer. One would think you'd like it too, since you've listed a variety of health issues. Is it socialist? Yes, but in the European/Canadian mode. People are living longer, but they're also having to work longer to keep medical coverage. Everyone is complaining that there are "no jobs" for college graduates, but there are literally millions who could and would retire if there was single-payer healthcare available, opening-up those jobs and presumably the economy. In a country as prosperous as ours, we probably have the right to demand good healthcare with the expectation of a long life.

Our current for-profit system incentivizes unnecessary testing to pad profits, and doctors have to jack-up their bills so they can afford malpractice insurance. Insurance companies still make obscene profits, including United HealthCare, which for years paid it's CEO an outrageous salary and compensated it's top execs well over the norm. I have Canadian relatives and a Canadian MD in the family, and they're mostly satisfied. The MD has his practice "capped", which I see as a problem because once he hits a certain dollar figure, he is done for the year.

It'll be pretty tough for working class people to retire early in the future without pensions that let them leave early. Early retirement looks to be an upper class thing going forward. For me I just want a system that won't ruin me financially from either monthly premiums or a single health scare. We had that with our company healthcare awhile back. I'm guessing the stock market and real estate market run ups had the healthcare industry wanting to cash in too. That and the world's most litigious society. Greed run amuck. If I have to work to pay for insurance I'm mandated to have, I no longer have the freedom of choice. Just another reason to leave the State's. They have insurance requirements where I'm headed also, but it's very affordable.

 

[bacha29]

Van: here you go again . The fact that you payed into the Medicare system is immaterial . The fact is your beloved GOP fought bitterly against and your Republican hero Bob Dole filibustered the House in an effort to kill Medicare. Now you say that you don't want to have to work to pay for insurance. Then how do you propose to pay your health care bills? You say that you don't want to be ruined financially by big health care bills. One of the driving forces behind Obamacare was the fact that 86% of all personal bankruptcies were primarily due to health care bills. Another universal health care plan as imperfect as it may be that your beloved GOP fought bitterly against but at the same time has offered nothing as a viable replacement. What is paining you is that it was progressive Democrats who have actually done something to protect working class Americans from catastrophic health care bills while still trying to maintain a decent quality of care and your beloved GOP have fought them every step of the way

 

[vantexan]

Van: here you go again . The fact that you payed into the Medicare system is immaterial . The fact is your beloved GOP fought bitterly against and your Republican hero Bob Dole filibustered the House in an effort to kill Medicare. Now you say that you don't want to have to work to pay for insurance. Then how do you propose to pay your health care bills? You say that you don't want to be ruined financially by big health care bills. One of the driving forces behind Obamacare was the fact that 86% of all personal bankruptcies were primarily due to health care bills. Another universal health care plan as imperfect as it may be that your beloved GOP fought bitterly against but at the same time has offered nothing as a viable replacement. What is paining you is that it was progressive Democrats who have actually done something to protect working class Americans from catastrophic health care bills while still trying to maintain a decent quality of care and your beloved GOP have fought them every step of the way

And you are twisting my words. One of the reasons I'm looking at living overseas is I can pay as I go for medical care. My recent E.R. visit would've only cost me at most $200 in many countries, most likely considerably less. No, I don't want to continue to work because A) I have health issues that might kill me before 70 and I'd like to do something different with the time I have and B) I don't want to work for FedEx any longer than I need to considering what they've done to me. YMMV. You can talk all day about the GOP but at the end of the day they are trying to reign in the spending before the gov't collapses under it's own weight. I just don't see the Democrats stopping that from happening and considering how far left they've become it looks like a Cloward and Piven play to remake the system.

 

[vantexan]

P.S. You don't seem the least bit concerned with the higher and higher premiums under Obamacare.

 

[MAKAVELI]

And you are twisting my words. One of the reasons I'm looking at living overseas is I can pay as I go for medical care. My recent E.R. visit would've only cost me at most $200 in many countries, most likely considerably less. No, I don't want to continue to work because A) I have health issues that might kill me before 70 and I'd like to do something different with the time I have and B) I don't want to work for FedEx any longer than I need to considering what they've done to me. YMMV. You can talk all day about the GOP but at the end of the day they are trying to reign in the spending before the gov't collapses under it's own weight. I just don't see the Democrats stopping that from happening and considering how far left they've become it looks like a Cloward and Piven play to remake the system.

Ask yourself why an ER visit would only cost you $200 in other countries?

 

[vantexan]

Ask yourself why an ER visit would only cost you $200 in other countries?

There was nothing done during my E.R. visit that should've cost $2800. If you are saying it's the quality of the care then you'd be mistaken. Take Nicaragua. Granted the care in many of it's clinics is subpar, but they have one hospital, Vivian Pellas, in Managua, that's affiliated with Johns Hopkins in Boston. Everything there is first class, and you can get private insurance with them for $70 a month that'll handle anything short of transplants and neurosurgery. Another major expat hotspot, Cuenca, Ecuador, has excellent healthcare with many doctors who trained in the States. You can be well taken care of in many countries, you just have to be able to pay for it. Luckily that is pretty affordable.

 

[MAKAVELI]

There was nothing done during my E.R. visit that should've cost $2800. If you are saying it's the quality of the care then you'd be mistaken. Take Nicaragua. Granted the care in many of it's clinics is subpar, but they have one hospital, Vivian Pellas, in Managua, that's affiliated with Johns Hopkins in Boston. Everything there is first class, and you can get private insurance with them for $70 a month that'll handle anything short of transplants and neurosurgery. Another major expat hotspot, Cuenca, Ecuador, has excellent healthcare with many doctors who trained in the States. You can be well taken care of in many countries, you just have to be able to pay for it. Luckily that is pretty affordable.

You didn't get what I was asking. The reason our healthcare is so expensive is because of our capitalist system. Everyone from the doctors, nurses, hospitals, clerical, insurance companies, down to the janitors are all trying to make a buck off your ER visit. That's why its so expensive here in the US. It really isn't that complicated.

 

[vantexan]

You didn't get what I was asking. The reason our healthcare is so expensive is because of our capitalist system. Everyone from the doctors, nurses, hospitals, clerical, insurance companies, down to the janitors are all trying to make a buck off your ER visit. That's why its so expensive here in the US. It really isn't that complicated.

And yet with all that the $2800+ that was charged was much more than needed because after paying for all that the hospital corporation wants to show a fat profit to please the stockholders with dividends and share appreciation. If we criticize the high pay of medical workers(and lord knows they get paid well), then can we in turn demand much higher pay at FedEx? Let's all take low pay and let the gov't take care of everything else. There, it's fixed, good night!

 

[MAKAVELI]

And yet with all that the $2800+ that was charged was much more than needed because after paying for all that the hospital corporation wants to show a fat profit to please the stockholders with dividends and share appreciation. If we criticize the high pay of medical workers(and lord knows they get paid well), then can we in turn demand much higher pay at FedEx? Let's all take low pay and let the gov't take care of everything else. There, it's fixed, good night!

You are missing the point Van. The US economic system has created this cluster . The only way to stop the bleeding and provide healthcare for the masses is a single payer system.

 

[vantexan]

You are missing the point Van. The US economic system has created this cluster . The only way to stop the bleeding and provide healthcare for the masses is a single payer system.

What I pointed out is the U.S. economic system. Everything is about pleasing the stockholders i.e. the ones who hold large amounts of stock. Until we cut off the 401k money that enriches them we will be held hostage to high costs no matter what kind of payer system we have. THEY will make certain of that.

 

[MAKAVELI]

What I pointed out is the U.S. economic system. Everything is about pleasing the stockholders i.e. the ones who hold large amounts of stock. Until we cut off the 401k money that enriches them we will be held hostage to high costs no matter what kind of payer system we have. THEY will make certain of that.

Be careful Van you are sounding more like a progressive Democrat than a conservative Republican.

 

[vantexan]

You didn't get what I was asking. The reason our healthcare is so expensive is because of our capitalist system. Everyone from the doctors, nurses, hospitals, clerical, insurance companies, down to the janitors are all trying to make a buck off your ER visit. That's why its so expensive here in the US. It really isn't that complicated.

Should point out in many countries it isn't because they aren't capitalists that costs are lower, it's because they are poor. What's charged is what the market will bear.

 

[vantexan]

Be careful Van you are sounding more like a progressive Democrat than a conservative Republican.

Sometimes I do, but I've maintained all along that I'm for truth, for what's best for everyone, not just for my party. Those like Bacha only see Republican and Democrat, liberal and conservative, and a great divide in between. We should be working towards what's best for everyone, and if that makes the rich richer that's fine as long as they are benefitting, not taking advantage of, the hard working regular folk. Some, like MFE, can't stand that someone is getting rich even if they are providing decent jobs. I could care less as long as I'm paid fairly. Breaking promises and cheating me are all part of not being paid fairly.