Telematics and peak

[sortaisle]

I don't see telematics as a terrible thing. Our two center managers are very fair in my opinion. Some don't see it that way, but they seem to think they can dispatch themselves and don't make a decent living. The way I see it, they say do this, and if it's within reason, do it. Follow your methods and once in a while do a favor, and they remember. At least these guys do. I know they're some managers out there who don't remember and will use and abuse guys who hustle and help. That sucks. Telematics has the opportunity to be a great tool as long as they don't cram production.

 

[pretzel_man]

What do you do when the GPS tells UPS that you did something wrong at 450 Center St. and you only stopped at 454 Center St? You do know that GPS can have as much as a 150 foot range of error, which means you can be as much as 75 feet from where you need to be. I know you are going to say that the 75 feet doesn't mean much, but when you are trying to find the 30 foot wide channel in a boat, or your favorite deer stand, 75 feet can seem like miles.

Hello,

First, the system doesn't determine the address based on the GPS reading.

Second, the GPS is more accurate than 75ft.

Here is information from the manufacturers website (I put XX's through the company name in case its not public):

The GPS module used in the xxxxxx unit report an accuracy of 2.5 m CEP, making trip distance very accurate.

xxxxxx xx units use an on-board UBLOX GPS module to read GPS data second by second. The zz unit will only log GPS data if it meets the following criteria.
• 3-D Fix acquired (minimum of 4 satellites)
• Speed must be accurate to 1 m/s or better (Speed Accuracy measurement provided by Ublox with each GPS reading)
• PDOP and TDOP better than 10

Positional Dilution OF Precision (PDOP) is a measure of uncertainty in a GPS position solution. The best PDOP (lowest value) would occur with one satellite directly overhead and three others evenly spaced about the horizon.
Time Dilution Of Precision (TDOP) is a measure of how the satellite geometry is affecting the ability of the GPS receiver to determine time.


Our experience has been that its very accurate. Maybe not quite as accurate as the manufacturer says, but much, much better than 75 feet.

P-Man

 

[hellfire]

the brow beating you post about is not my experience.

On the other hand, based on the positive results, I guess you are making the argument that brow beating works.

P-Man

wow,, way to dodge his said points , ---------------------""""""""""""""" They accused drivers of driving off area for lunch (still from their seats in Chicago), but then realized the drivers were just meeting other drivers to exchange misloads. They did not (and still do not) have an answer for the systemic misload problem.
* They did not talk about safety items. Item #1 is production."""""""""""""''
you ignore that he is saying brow beating = fake numbers , pr man ,, but thats the world you live in

 

[pretzel_man]

wow,, way to dodge his said points , ---------------------""""""""""""""" They accused drivers of driving off area for lunch (still from their seats in Chicago), but then realized the drivers were just meeting other drivers to exchange misloads. They did not (and still do not) have an answer for the systemic misload problem.
* They did not talk about safety items. Item #1 is production."""""""""""""''
you ignore that he is saying brow beating = fake numbers , pr man ,, but thats the world you live in

Look... He posts things that are not my experience. I said that. I've said that many times.

He implies that Telematics doesn't work. Again, not my experience.

Since, its an objective fact that Telematics sites have improved as a whole (I don't know how Chicago did by itself), the only conclusion I can draw is that brow beating works.

Telematics is coming. The vast majority of drivers have no issue with it. Poor management WILL nit pick reports and yes, that will be an annoyance for those drivers. The majority of management doesn't do that.

Its a non issue in the places I've been. I will call my contact in Chicago and see how they are doing.

P-Man

 

[hellfire]

Look... He posts things that are not my experience. I said that. I've said that many times.

He implies that Telematics doesn't work. Again, not my experience.

Since, its an objective fact that Telematics sites have improved as a whole (I don't know how Chicago did by itself), the only conclusion I can draw is that brow beating works.

Telematics is coming. The vast majority of drivers have no issue with it. Poor management WILL nit pick reports and yes, that will be an annoyance for those drivers. The majority of management doesn't do that.

Its a non issue in the places I've been. I will call my contact in Chicago and see how they are doing.

P-Man

again ,, sigh,, again,, objective because of skewered numbers operations are forced to make,, regardless of real world day to day realities ??our current corporate team/mentality is going to put UPS in the red and maybe under soon. Keep your blinders on and keep driving my company and future into the ground ....let telematics come,, you say that as a threat,, ....let it come

 

[pretzel_man]

again ,, sigh,, again,, objective because of skewered numbers operations are forced to make,, regardless of real world day to day realities ??our current corporate team/mentality is going to put UPS in the red and maybe under soon. Keep your blinders on and keep driving my company and future into the ground ....let telematics come,, you say that as a threat,, ....let it come

Okay... I guess you are right.

Telematics is costing UPS money. UPS will deploy a system and purposely lose money.

Everyone is skewing the reports and numbers to hide all those facts. Please don't tell anyone that you figured out the secret.

P-Man

 

[Catatonic]

Okay... I guess you are right.

Telematics is costing UPS money. UPS will deploy a system and purposely lose money.

Everyone is skewing the reports and numbers to hide all those facts. Please don't tell anyone that you figured out the secret.

P-Man

I was wondering when you were going to come around.

You are not usually so dense on something as obvious as this one.

 

[CharleyHustle]

• Speed must be accurate to 1 m/s or better (Speed Accuracy measurement provided by Ublox with each GPS reading)
• PDOP and TDOP better than 10

Positional Dilution OF Precision (PDOP) is a measure of uncertainty in a GPS position solution. The best PDOP (lowest value) would occur with one satellite directly overhead and three others evenly spaced about the horizon.
Time Dilution Of Precision (TDOP) is a measure of how the satellite geometry is affecting the ability of the GPS receiver to determine time.


Our experience has been that its very accurate. Maybe not quite as accurate as the manufacturer says, but much, much better than 75 feet.

P-Man

My understanding is that GPS is marked at the point of scan. How about at "stop complete"? When retriving this coordinate can it be plotted on google earth? When measuring speed, is that just a real time feature or is that information stored to a daily data base? When a GPS scan is marked is there TDOP and PDOP information tagged to that scan?

It seems the people with the most to fear from telematics are supervisors that wern't doing their jobs to begin with. It might behoove them to ensure telematics makes no difference in the performance of their opperation.

Anyway, thanks for your comments, very informative.

 

[trplnkl]

In the past I have had the dubious pleasure of working more than a few driver follow ups on various routes I was covering. The oms provides a print out of a google earth map marking ,supposedly, the spots where the package scan was made, the spot where the driver enter the delivery location and the spot of stop complete. One FUs that I worked had all three Xs within in approx 20-25 feet from each other. The problem was they were 3 blocks from the actual address in the middle of a vacant lot woth 6 foot tall weeds through out the lot. There was no way the the driver preformed those functions where GPS said they were made. This is just one example of many follow ups with this kinf of results.

 

[over9five]

In the past I have had the dubious pleasure of working more than a few driver follow ups on various routes I was covering. The oms provides a print out of a google earth map marking ,supposedly, the spots where the package scan was made, the spot where the driver enter the delivery location and the spot of stop complete. One FUs that I worked had all three Xs within in approx 20-25 feet from each other. The problem was they were 3 blocks from the actual address in the middle of a vacant lot woth 6 foot tall weeds through out the lot. There was no way the the driver preformed those functions where GPS said they were made. This is just one example of many follow ups with this kinf of results.

I can back that up. It's been 2 years and maybe the technology's improved, but I've entered the GPS coordinates into Google Earth and have seen that I delivered a package in the middle of a reservoir.

 

[pretzel_man]

My understanding is that GPS is marked at the point of scan. How about at "stop complete"? When retriving this coordinate can it be plotted on google earth? When measuring speed, is that just a real time feature or is that information stored to a daily data base? When a GPS scan is marked is there TDOP and PDOP information tagged to that scan?

It seems the people with the most to fear from telematics are supervisors that wern't doing their jobs to begin with. It might behoove them to ensure telematics makes no difference in the performance of their opperation.

Anyway, thanks for your comments, very informative.

Hello Charley....

Here is my understanding, and maybe someone from Corporate or the DIAD group and clarify if I'm wrong.

There are two GPS receivers. One in the vehicle (telematics), and one in the DIAD.

In general (by default), the DIAD records a GPS reading at specified places. At a scan, at a signature, and at a stop complete. It does look at Dilution of Precision reading and tags the record accordingly.

Also, the DIAD sends up a GPS reading if it has not made a stop for some time (14 minutes I think)

Finally, at the DIAD end there is a parameter that can be changed to have the DIAD record and store GPS reading each second. That can be played back in DPS

Then there is the vehicle Telematics side. It also has a GPS receiver and an external antenna. It is constantly gathering GPS readings (including all parameters). At the end of the day, it sends the data to a big database in the sky.

Both sources DIAD and Telematics can be plotted on a map, including Google Earth or Microsoft Live.

The information is very powerful. It points out management dispatch problems as well as driver problems. Of course GPS is not 100% accurate.

From what I've seen, Telematics is more accurate than the DIAD. Probably because it has an outside antenna. Both are remarkably good however.

Did that answer your question?

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

In the past I have had the dubious pleasure of working more than a few driver follow ups on various routes I was covering. The oms provides a print out of a google earth map marking ,supposedly, the spots where the package scan was made, the spot where the driver enter the delivery location and the spot of stop complete. One FUs that I worked had all three Xs within in approx 20-25 feet from each other. The problem was they were 3 blocks from the actual address in the middle of a vacant lot woth 6 foot tall weeds through out the lot. There was no way the the driver preformed those functions where GPS said they were made. This is just one example of many follow ups with this kinf of results.

I can back that up. It's been 2 years and maybe the technology's improved, but I've entered the GPS coordinates into Google Earth and have seen that I delivered a package in the middle of a reservoir.

I've looked at 1000's of these and have rarely seen something like that. Almost never....

Can you tell me how you did your entry? I look at the readings that the DIAD stores in DIR. That is the official repository.

P-Man

 

[over9five]

I can't tell you exactly how it was done, P-Man. My Package memory is fading away... but the middle of the reservoir was a little over 100 ft away from the house.

As I said, more than two years ago, the technology's probably better now.

 

[CharleyHustle]

P-Man,

Yes and no. Are managers aware of the possible descrepencies of the TDOP or PDOP and how to interpt it? It sounds like the DIAD is only real time on scan, signature and stop complete or is there a delay in this info? Can the vehicle telematics be accessed real time or only at the end of day? If you sheet (obsolete) a stop as closed, should you be in the general area or drive by and record at your next stop? If you put a stop in pre-record does this skew any of the readings? I don't think you're obligated to answer any of this, I just find this stuff fasinating. Thanks anyway and have a nice Holiday.

 

[pretzel_man]

P-Man,

Yes and no. Are managers aware of the possible descrepencies of the TDOP or PDOP and how to interpt it? It sounds like the DIAD is only real time on scan, signature and stop complete or is there a delay in this info? Can the vehicle telematics be accessed real time or only at the end of day? If you sheet (obsolete) a stop as closed, should you be in the general area or drive by and record at your next stop? If you put a stop in pre-record does this skew any of the readings? I don't think you're obligated to answer any of this, I just find this stuff fasinating. Thanks anyway and have a nice Holiday.

The managers should not need to interpret the Dilution of Precision numbers. The DIAD is set to eliminate readings if the data is inaccurate. I do not remember what they taught me a while ago.... As I recall there are A records and V records. One of them is accurate, and the other is less accurate. The less accurate ones are discarded for reports (I think).

In real time (meaning what is sent to the center during the day only DIAD data is sent. Telematics is only at the end of the day.

I'm not sure I know all the specifics of the other questions... As I recall however, the DIAD has a hierarchy of what data it thinks is most accurate.

The Lat / Long at a signature is the highest priority. It is then that you really know you are at a stop. I think Stop Complete is the second priority, and a scan is the third.

In general, you should record a stop at the stop for the most accurate information. The DIAD uses the GPS information to help with SmartStop.

If you always record a stop at a different place, the DIAD doesn't know where to expect an address to be.

Again, I've looked at 1000's of these, and they are really very good.

Have a great holiday also,

P-Man

 

[govols019]

What about the days where the DIAD constantly tells you that you're not in the right location when you know you are? I have, on several occasions, spent half the day with the DIAD making that annoying noise at every stop.

 

[pretzel_man]

What about the days where the DIAD constantly tells you that you're not in the right location when you know you are? I have, on several occasions, spent half the day with the DIAD making that annoying noise at every stop.

Is this your normal route?

There are two likely scenarios.

One, you have a bad DIAD.

Two, (and this is especially true if this is not your normal route) whoever has been delivering the route has not been following methods. If this is the case, DIAD would think an address is at a different place than it really is.

P-Man

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Is this your normal route?

There are two likely scenarios.

One, you have a bad DIAD.

Two, (and this is especially true if this is not your normal route) whoever has been delivering the route has not been following methods. If this is the case, DIAD would think an address is at a different place than it really is.

P-Man

P-Man, I have run in to the same situation as govols on my bid run. I don't know if GPS was simply not working but I would go for as long as an hour with the DIAD unsure if I was at the right address or not. I am talking about standing right in front of the delivery stop and the DIAD making sounds like I had just won the jackpot on a slot at Mohegan Sun. I do have some stops that come in with multiple addresses (college) and the DIAD will ask if I am at the right address. For example, the college bookstore will use 43 Rugar St and 101 Broad St as their addresses. There is at least 1/2 mile between those physical addresses so when I try to sheet them together as one stop the DIAD will ask me if I am sure I am at the right address. Anyway, I have had instances such as govols where the GPS simply does not seem to be working.

 

[pretzel_man]

P-Man, I have run in to the same situation as govols on my bid run. I don't know if GPS was simply not working but I would go for as long as an hour with the DIAD unsure if I was at the right address or not. I am talking about standing right in front of the delivery stop and the DIAD making sounds like I had just won the jackpot on a slot at Mohegan Sun. I do have some stops that come in with multiple addresses (college) and the DIAD will ask if I am at the right address. For example, the college bookstore will use 43 Rugar St and 101 Broad St as their addresses. There is at least 1/2 mile between those physical addresses so when I try to sheet them together as one stop the DIAD will ask me if I am sure I am at the right address. Anyway, I have had instances such as govols where the GPS simply does not seem to be working.

Upstate,

Here is how it works (per the corporate guys)

When 43 Rugar St. is delivered, the DIAD saves the GPS reading. (The reading it saves will depend on a hierarchy.) If there is a signature with a "valid" GPS reading, it saves that one. If not, it looks for a "valid" reading at stop complete. Then it will look for one at scan.

After at least 2 deliveries, a big database starts looking at the "average" delivery location for 43 Rugar St. It throws out outliers and looks to ensure that the readings are within some distance from each other.

It now has the expected GPS reading for 43 Rugar and sends that back to the DIAD. When you deliver Rugar, if you are within 250 feet (I think) of the average, it says you are okay.

So, here is what can happen... If a driver consistently stop completes 43 Rugar at a different address (say 101 Broad), the DIAD will think that's where Rugar is. If a different driver actually records 43 Rugar at 43 Rugar, the DIAD will then think its at the wrong place (when in reality its at the right place).

In essence, consistantly recording an address at the wrong place will make the DIAD think the wrong place is the correct spot.

As I said before, the other choice is that on a particular day, you have a bad DIAD.

I know that this is hard to explain.

P-Man

 

[brownmonster]

I have the same route everyday, same DIAD and deliver to the exact same locations, and some days the GPS will bark at me for several stops. It's good technology but not perfect 100% of the time. I would hate to be fired because of it.