Welfare

[rickyb]

Ok. What do we do?

well i was just listening to richard d wolff's economic update radio show today, and i think hes right when he says that the middle class is always told that the poor are lazy and to blame them for being so called welfare queens. i think they should stop blaming each other, and unite against hte rich 0.1% or whoever who are paid way more than what they should be, usually at the expense of everyone else.

 

[oldngray]

im not talking about eliminating it. but i agree it is a big piece of the tax pie, and yet its interesting when you hear talk about taxes its framed as if we all pay the same to make taxes sound like a bad thing.

True. Not everyone pays the same amount in taxes.
Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes
http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

im not talking about eliminating it. but i agree it is a big piece of the tax pie, and yet its interesting when you hear talk about taxes its framed as if we all pay the same to make taxes sound like a bad thing.

So...um....why are you wanting to unite against the rich then? Just because they are rich? Jealousy is a powerful demon man. Let it go.

 

[baklava]

well i was just listening to richard d wolff's economic update radio show today, and i think hes right when he says that the middle class is always told that the poor are lazy and to blame them for being so called welfare queens. i think they should stop blaming each other, and unite against hte rich 0.1% or whoever who are paid way more than what they should be, usually at the expense of everyone else.

Yeah but that's what I mean. Unite how? Pillage them?

 

[rickyb]

Stop sucking the government dry for starters. A fairly recent study determined that the "bottom" 60% AS A GROUP paid -9.1% in taxes in 2010. When I said AS A GROUP I mean that it doesn't apply to each and every person on the middle/lower class. The rich are not the problem by a long shot when it comes to taxes. There is simply too many Americans taking out more than they put in. If you leave the politics and opinion out of it and only look at it like one of those annoying, but simple, word problems we all had in math class it's easy to see what the real problem is. Class warfare isn't the answer. Cutting off the gravy train and money printing machines is.

thats because they have nothing. you live in an oligarchy. average joes would pay more taxes if they had something to give. the middle class is increasingly being wiped out, and most americans dont dispute this fact.

 

[rickyb]

Yeah but that's what I mean. Unite how? Pillage them?

well i think ultimately ( and i guess its quite radical by modern american standards although u guys are relearning socialism again and getting over the red scare) the workers should take over their jobs from their bosses, which has been done before around the world, and often has been squashed by state force. u know: workers deciding how to run the jobs themselves. hard for alot of people to wrap their heads around especially when theyve been led to believe the only 2 economic systems are state socialism and capitalism.

but before that they could go after the corporate welfare queens, the 0.1% who own the country and are the primary beneficiaries of capitalism, and the government research and development which is handed over to corporations for free.

u know it could be like a civil rights 2.0 or whatever. people organizing, marching, calling their congressmen, making videos, music, etc. putting in work for their country.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

well i was just listening to richard d wolff's economic update radio show today, and i think hes right when he says that the middle class is always told that the poor are lazy and to blame them for being so called welfare queens. i think they should stop blaming each other,

Yes stop blaming each other AND the rich and blame themselves. Being poor isn't a terminal illness thats fed to certain people by the evil rich. Being poor is a 100% curable disease caught through laziness and sometimes circumstance. Or a little bit of both.

and unite against hte rich 0.1% or whoever who are paid way more than what they should be, usually at the expense of everyone else.

They are paid according to either their work ethic or/and the willingness of others to pay them for their services and ability. Everyone else is only a factor when they are the ones that are paying for those services. I think professional athletes are way overpaid and rarely watch sports anymore. But I still throw money in their bank accounts every time I buy any of their sponsors' products. I don't hate them for it. I just think they are overpaid.

 

[rickyb]

True. Not everyone pays the same amount in taxes.
Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes
http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

david cay johnston did a book on the tax system, and theres videos on youtube. i think the very richest actually pay a little less in taxes than the people just below them. he described as a tax system which funnels money to the very top...

 

[Brownslave688]

True. Not everyone pays the same amount in taxes.
Top 10 Percent of Earners Paid 68 Percent of Federal Income Taxes
http://www.heritage.org/federalbudget/top10-percent-income-earners

Yep it hurts too

 

[Brownslave688]

david cay johnston did a book on the tax system, and theres videos on youtube. i think the very richest actually pay a little less in taxes than the people just below them. he described as a tax system which funnels money to the very top...

You're talkindg about the too .001%. The rules will NEVER apply to them.

 

[rickyb]

Yes stop blaming each other AND the rich and blame themselves. Being poor isn't a terminal illness thats fed to certain people by the evil rich. Being poor is a 100% curable disease caught through laziness and sometimes circumstance. Or a little bit of both.


They are paid according to either their work ethic or/and the willingness of others to pay them for their services and ability. Everyone else is only a factor when they are the ones that are paying for those services. I think professional athletes are way overpaid and rarely watch sports anymore. But I still throw money in their bank accounts every time I buy any of their sponsors' products. I don't hate them for it. I just think they are overpaid.

yea regarding sports and striking athletes its interesting how they frame the debate on the oligarch owned news: they usually say the players want more for this reason, or the owners of the nhl want to pay them less for this reason. but whats never mentioned is that they are both overpaid and should both be paid less and cut prices for the fans.

i dont think the rich are paid based on work ethic. the value system is skewed. we have financial speculators who ruined the economy and CEOs of oil companies making 1000s of times more than scientists trying to find a cure to a disease or whatever.

 

[baklava]

well i think ultimately ( and i guess its quite radical by modern american standards although u guys are relearning socialism again and getting over the red scare) the workers should take over their jobs from their bosses, which has been done before around the world, and often has been squashed by state force. u know: workers deciding how to run the jobs themselves. hard for alot of people to wrap their heads around especially when theyve been led to believe the only 2 economic systems are state socialism and capitalism.

but before that they could go after the corporate welfare queens, the 0.1% who own the country and are the primary beneficiaries of capitalism, and the government research and development which is handed over to corporations for free.

u know it could be like a civil rights 2.0 or whatever. people organizing, marching, calling their congressmen, making videos, music, etc. putting in work for their country.

I believe in unionization. Strength in numbers to leverage rights for workers.

Voting for a viable third political party that isn't influenced by special interest groups would also help.

The rich can be rich, I have no problem with that. We need rich people in this world. It's endless greed and influence on government I have a problem with.

 

[rickyb]

You're talkindg about the too .001%. The rules will NEVER apply to them.

not "will never" but your right the rules do not apply to them Becuase they are rich. matt taibbi just wrote a book on the 2 tiered justice system in america. but u know it just depends on what kind of world u want to live in: equal justice or unequal...

 

[rickyb]

I believe in unionization. Strength in numbers to leverage rights for workers.

Voting for a viable third political party that isn't influenced by special interest groups would also help.

The rich can be rich, I have no problem with that. We need rich people in this world. It's endless greed and influence on government I have a problem with.

sure im not saying we should have a perfectly equal society thats ridiculous.

i wasnt talking about unionization, but it certainly helps average joes despite the unions shortcomings.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

thats because they have nothing. you live in an oligarchy. average joes would pay more taxes if they had something to give. the middle class is increasingly being wiped out, and most americans dont dispute this fact.

well i think ultimately ( and i guess its quite radical by modern american standards although u guys are relearning socialism again and getting over the red scare) the workers should take over their jobs from their bosses, which has been done before around the world, and often has been squashed by state force. u know: workers deciding how to run the jobs themselves. hard for alot of people to wrap their heads around especially when theyve been led to believe the only 2 economic systems are state socialism and capitalism.

but before that they could go after the corporate welfare queens, the 0.1% who own the country and are the primary beneficiaries of capitalism, and the government research and development which is handed over to corporations for free.

u know it could be like a civil rights 2.0 or whatever. people organizing, marching, calling their congressmen, making videos, music, etc. putting in work for their country.

The middle class is shrinking because many are moving up into the upper class at the same time as many are falling into the lower class. But more are moving upward. The rich aren't just getting richer. More people are becoming rich.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48754974

Again...the problem isn't the rich. It's that many people aren't trying hard enough to be rich, are trying but failing to be rich, or simply don't want to be rich. And many of the latter are happy living on the government dole. Remove jealousy from the equation, as well as the commie/socialist nonsense about workers taking their jobs from their bosses, and more people would be happy.

 

[rickyb]

Yes stop blaming each other AND the rich and blame themselves. Being poor isn't a terminal illness thats fed to certain people by the evil rich. Being poor is a 100% curable disease caught through laziness and sometimes circumstance. Or a little bit of both.


They are paid according to either their work ethic or/and the willingness of others to pay them for their services and ability. Everyone else is only a factor when they are the ones that are paying for those services. I think professional athletes are way overpaid and rarely watch sports anymore. But I still throw money in their bank accounts every time I buy any of their sponsors' products. I don't hate them for it. I just think they are overpaid.

maybe laziness sometimes, but increasingly people are poor in america because of circumstance: globalization, automation, immigration, and women entering the workforce. it has a downward pressure on wages.

and people arent poor in teh 3rd world cuz their lazy....

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

maybe laziness sometimes, but increasingly people are poor in america because of circumstance: globalization, automation, immigration, and women entering the workforce. it has a downward pressure on wages.

and people arent poor in teh 3rd world cuz their lazy....

All those things are happening yet more and more Americans are moving up and even now, right after one of the worst financial periods of our time, an overwhelming number of us are still living the dream.

 

[Brownslave688]

not "will never" but your right the rules do not apply to them Becuase they are rich. matt taibbi just wrote a book on the 2 tiered justice system in america. but u know it just depends on what kind of world u want to live in: equal justice or unequal...

It's EVERY country ever. The ultra ultra rich get by with stuff. I hasn't changed for 5,000 years don't see why it would ever change.

Who get punished? No mr and mrs sit on my ass and do nothing. No they get their money anyway.

Those punished are those that worked very hard to make "a lot" of money (250k to a few million). Those are the everyday people getting bent over.

 

[rickyb]

The middle class is shrinking because many are moving up into the upper class at the same time as many are falling into the lower class. But more are moving upward. The rich aren't just getting richer. More people are becoming rich.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48754974

Again...the problem isn't the rich. It's that many people aren't trying hard enough to be rich, are trying but failing to be rich, or simply don't want to be rich. And many of the latter are happy living on the government dole. Remove jealousy from the equation, as well as the commie/socialist nonsense about workers taking their jobs from their bosses, and more people would be happy.

so you think its even steven? well thats just dandy. your familiar with that news reporter, and the consistent quality of his journalism too i assume.

anyways i very much doubt the middle class is shrinking because of lack of ambition.

u think that workers shouldnt have more say at their jobs which affect their a good portion of their lives? do you like democracy? or should we continue to just have political democracy, and free choice of economic tyranny?

 

[rickyb]

All those things are happening yet more and more Americans are moving up and even now, right after one of the worst financial periods of our time, an overwhelming number of us are still living the dream.

the median income for american households has dropped 8% since 2007...