rod
Retired 23 years
We hung on for dear life
but it was easier staying alert driving 70 mph with the door open and no seat belt. Those were interesting times. I don't know about anyone else but I should have been thrown out several times
5 seeing habits
- Thread starter stopcomplete
- Start date
We hung on for dear life
but it was easier staying alert driving 70 mph with the door open and no seat belt. Those were interesting times. I don't know about anyone else but I should have been thrown out several times
browniehound
Well-Known Member
Sober, I like your opinion that knowing these safety rules verbatim will not necessarily make you a safe employee. You can have the sharpest mind in the world and can learn this stuff in an hour, yet at the same time be a very bad driver.
I'm not saying the 5 seeing habits don't make you a better driver, they do. I really believe if you practice them you can protect yourself from most of the idiots on the road.
I think UPS is taking the wrong approach by wanting us to memorize the rules in lieu of actually UNDERSTANDING them. The focus is on being able to recite them when the focus should be on practicing them. Instead of having me recite the seeing habits on my annual ride, I think we should discuss how I'm using them in the specific driving situation. This way, management is actually teaching us something.
I agree with you UPSLifer that UPS cares about the safety of its employees. UPS is in business to make a profit. Injuries and accidents erode our profits. After labor and fuel, I'm sure injuries and accidents are up there in the 'cost' column. Naturally UPS will do whatever they can to minimize this cost. I believe there is nothing wrong with this, its part of our great system of capitalism.
However, to steal a phrase from Sober, don't insult my intelligence by claiming you care about my well being. You don't. If I break my ankle walking down a steep driveway that is iced over do you care about my pain? When I call you, what is the first thought that enters your mind as a center manager? I know what it is, its 'man this is going to screw up my safety picture' and 'this is going to cost us tens of thousands of dollars'.
There is nothing wrong with this thinking in my opinion. This is a business and the goal of a business is to make money. Where I have a problem is when you actually claim that you care about me personaly. I've heard at a PCM from a center manager that he cares about the cost involved and he also cared about us. Save it.
I'm not saying the 5 seeing habits don't make you a better driver, they do. I really believe if you practice them you can protect yourself from most of the idiots on the road.
I think UPS is taking the wrong approach by wanting us to memorize the rules in lieu of actually UNDERSTANDING them. The focus is on being able to recite them when the focus should be on practicing them. Instead of having me recite the seeing habits on my annual ride, I think we should discuss how I'm using them in the specific driving situation. This way, management is actually teaching us something.
I agree with you UPSLifer that UPS cares about the safety of its employees. UPS is in business to make a profit. Injuries and accidents erode our profits. After labor and fuel, I'm sure injuries and accidents are up there in the 'cost' column. Naturally UPS will do whatever they can to minimize this cost. I believe there is nothing wrong with this, its part of our great system of capitalism.
However, to steal a phrase from Sober, don't insult my intelligence by claiming you care about my well being. You don't. If I break my ankle walking down a steep driveway that is iced over do you care about my pain? When I call you, what is the first thought that enters your mind as a center manager? I know what it is, its 'man this is going to screw up my safety picture' and 'this is going to cost us tens of thousands of dollars'.
There is nothing wrong with this thinking in my opinion. This is a business and the goal of a business is to make money. Where I have a problem is when you actually claim that you care about me personaly. I've heard at a PCM from a center manager that he cares about the cost involved and he also cared about us. Save it.
dilligaf
IN VINO VERITAS
Brownie, in all of the pcm's that I have been at where accidents are talked about not once, to the best of my knowledge, has the first comment been 'the driver is ok'. It's always 'we had another accident with property damage', 'avoidable', 'customers driveway' etc, etc, etc.
Lifer and Sober, both make very good points and both (IMHO) lean to one wing or the other. It stands to reason. (Not a ding!)
I think you brought both sides nicely together.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
I actually would like to discuss the first seeing habit, if I may.
Aim High In Steering
How do you do it?: Imaginary Target. Baseball. Dart Board.
Whats it do for you?: Keeps car centered in travel lane. Smooth stops and turns.
Key Phrase: "Find a safe path well ahead"
I recently answered a question incorectly about this rule. It was:
Which of the five seeing habits apply to backing? I circled all of them except "Aim High In Steering" According to UPS, the correct answer is all of them.
I want to know how you are supposed to aim high in steering when backing to a dock? This is where I argue the validity of memorizing these rules. I know how to aim high when driving. I like it and use it. It helps me. It does not help me when backing. Can we follow the habit line for line and ask how it applies?
Imaginary target? I don't want to focused on an imaginary baseball or dartboard (whatever that means???) when I'm backing the vehicle. I want to clear the area and move my eyes between each mirror and the camera.
The seeing habit will "keep your car centered" but when backing, I don't want to be looking down the road, I want to be checking the rear, no?
How am I supposed to "Find a safe path well ahead" when I want to back the vehicle about 25 feet???
That is my argument. I would like to hear how aim high applies to backing.
Thank YOU.
Aim High In Steering
How do you do it?: Imaginary Target. Baseball. Dart Board.
Whats it do for you?: Keeps car centered in travel lane. Smooth stops and turns.
Key Phrase: "Find a safe path well ahead"
I recently answered a question incorectly about this rule. It was:
Which of the five seeing habits apply to backing? I circled all of them except "Aim High In Steering" According to UPS, the correct answer is all of them.
I want to know how you are supposed to aim high in steering when backing to a dock? This is where I argue the validity of memorizing these rules. I know how to aim high when driving. I like it and use it. It helps me. It does not help me when backing. Can we follow the habit line for line and ask how it applies?
Imaginary target? I don't want to focused on an imaginary baseball or dartboard (whatever that means???) when I'm backing the vehicle. I want to clear the area and move my eyes between each mirror and the camera.
The seeing habit will "keep your car centered" but when backing, I don't want to be looking down the road, I want to be checking the rear, no?
How am I supposed to "Find a safe path well ahead" when I want to back the vehicle about 25 feet???
That is my argument. I would like to hear how aim high applies to backing.
Thank YOU.
UPS Lifer
Well-Known Member
As I was reading your post, you said it more eloquently than I - I also agree with your comment about when you call in and there is an injury and accident particularly when I was a new manager.
As you become more experienced you tend to just know what to do and you gear more on the individual and their needs.
Also - I was going to ask you what the explanation was for the #1 Aim High... I go along with you - I don't buy it unless you equate Aiming High with planning ahead. You can make an argument for that... meaning you would be thinking far enough ahead to back first or not at all.
browniehound
Well-Known Member
UPSLifer, thanks for the kind words. When I asked about me being wrong in not choosing Aim High In Steering, I was told its the same concept even when backing. I still don't agree and can't comprehend how to apply it to backing.
I brought it in up in response to your post with the hope you could shed some light on the topic. I'm not sure what you do at UPS, but I gather you have been a manger for many years. Can you ask people 'in the know' at your center for a suitable explination? If you don't mind, I would love to learn more about it. If you're too busy or just don't care Lifer, I understand. Thanks in advance,
Brownie
trplnkl
555
Hmmm, that's quite a twist there Lifer. Nice try, but "keep your eyes moving" or " get the big picture" would fit that analogy better than "Aim high..."
trplnkl
555
Are you serious ?
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
There is a driver in my center who was involved in a head-on collision in Feb. of 2004. A woman was on her cell phone, lost control coming around a blind turn, and hit our driver head on at 55 mph. He was in his own lane, following all methods, and the accident was deemed to be unavoidable.
The woman was driving an SUV. She died before the EMT's could cut her out. Our driver was driving a P700 with a shoulder belt. He suffered a fractured ankle.
The only reason our driver is still alive today...is because the p500 that was normally dispatched on that route was in the shop for repairs. Had he been in that vehicle, with no shoulder belt, his head would have been propelled at high speed through the windshield and his brains would have splattered all over the hood of the package car. But hey...as long as UPS passes its Keter audit and the driver is current on his "asessments" prior to burial, I guess that is an acceptable outcome. At least we saved $30 on the belt.
soberups
Pees in the brown Koolaid
What does this possibly have to do with the 21st century that we are supposed to be living in today?
There was a time when seat belts were not required. There was also a time when black people had to ride on the back of the bus. Times change, society evolves, laws are passed to reflect evolving standards of fairness and safety. UPS has a consistent history of only meeting the absolute bare minimum safety standards required by law, and not one bit more. Actions speak louder than words.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Sober, I was recently assigned one of the newer pkg cars, with the automatic, power steering and a heater that actually works, but, for me, the best part is the 3 pt seat belt. I will admit that it took me a while to get used to it but I feel so much safer with it that I did before with just the lap belt.
But, UPS can put every safety mechanism in use today in to our pkg cars and they won't do a damn bit of good if drivers don't use them. We just had a driver who was caught by our district safety guru not wearing his seat belt, bulkhead door wide open and O/H chain not secured. (He earned a 3 day unpaid vacation for his "efforts") I constantly see drivers yakking on their cell phones (illegal in NY) while driving and know of at least 2 drivers who put their i-pods (with ear buds, also illegal in NY) on while driving.
But, UPS can put every safety mechanism in use today in to our pkg cars and they won't do a damn bit of good if drivers don't use them. We just had a driver who was caught by our district safety guru not wearing his seat belt, bulkhead door wide open and O/H chain not secured. (He earned a 3 day unpaid vacation for his "efforts") I constantly see drivers yakking on their cell phones (illegal in NY) while driving and know of at least 2 drivers who put their i-pods (with ear buds, also illegal in NY) on while driving.
Home is my favorite stop
Active Member
my center manager told me if i couldnt recite ALL of it, i couldnt go out on the road. i studied at home and did it. now they question everyone in the center once a week, most of the time ambushing us out on the road.
k_Loader_Airhub
Active Member
I have been with UPS and Contract a long time , they ask me every so often, all these questions, I maybe Know half of them. I want to say to my sup. , ive done my job longer than you have!!!
But every time they ask me serval of these questions , i will answer half of them and tell them i dont know the rest.
They Cant fire you for not Knowing these questions , If they do contact your union!!!!!!!
But every time they ask me serval of these questions , i will answer half of them and tell them i dont know the rest.
They Cant fire you for not Knowing these questions , If they do contact your union!!!!!!!
k_Loader_Airhub
Active Member
Better yet , on my story , ever since UPS took over my Air hub , ask them to drive the K loader and then you will answer there questions!!!!
They all book/UPS class Knowledge !!!!!!!!
They all book/UPS class Knowledge !!!!!!!!
wornoutupser
Well-Known Member
COME ON!!!! You mean the front tires on my P-7 are NOT supposed to be worn off on the insides ????? I mean 3/4 inch more than the next rib and UPS refuses to repair the vehicle, they just keep paying for another set of tires. This car wanders ALL OVER the road and THEY DONT CARE! It reminds me of my P-5 that would run itself off the road and it happened with a supervisor driving it as well!
